PrideFC: Total Elimination 2003

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

From Da Meltz.

 

--Pride odds from TheGreek.com:

 

Mirko Cro Cop -500 vs. Igor Vovchanchyn +300

Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira -170 vs. Ricco Rodriguez +130

Gary Goodridge +220 vs. Fedor Emelianenko -300

Kazushi Sakuraba +500 vs. Vanderlei Silva -800

Kiyoshi Tamura +1250 vs. Hidehiko Yoshida -2500

Quinton Jackson -185 vs. Ricardo Arona +145

Chuck Liddell -180 vs. Alistair Overeem +140

 

Individual odds on winning the Grand Prix tournament

Sakuraba +1000

Yoshida +440

Silva +310

Jackson +360

Liddell +400

Arona +420

Overeem +525

Tamura +1510

 

Also odds on the fastest finish in the first round:

Sakuraba +575

Yoshida +360

Silva +300

Jackson +375

Liddell +450

Arona +1250

Overeem +500

 

Boy, Tamura gets no respect here. While I would favor Silva and Yoshida over Sakuraba and Tamura, those odds are ridiculous. Anything can happen in a fight when you get people of top level skill. Silva is coming off double knee surgery, and that's a big one to recover from. Yoshida is bigger than Tamura, which is his main edge, and maybe better on the ground, and Tamura is not the same from all his beatings, but he's still the better all-around skilled fighter. I expect him to lose, but those odds are silly.

 

(thank you for the clearification Lei)

[Guest Angle-plex]

Huh. Tamura beating Yoshida is the only upset I have in my predictions, of the first round anyways.

Edited July 28, 2003 by Angle-plex

[Guest Brush with Greatness]

Wow, those are some crazy odds.

 

Essentially, I could drop $100 on Tamura, Sakuraba and Igor and if one of the three pulls through, I at worst break even. I'm sure there will be at least one upset.

 

What a payoff on Tamura. And who is going to drop $2500 on Yoshida for a $100 return.

[Guest Angle-plex]

My predictions:

 

Silva TKO's Sak

Tamura over Yoshida by submission

Liddell over Overeem by TKO

 

The other match, Jackson vs Arona, I just can't decide. I had Jackson picked before, but I personally think he's a bit overrated. Arona will probably have the advantage in cardio. I just hope we don't get a lay'n'pray.

 

So....

 

Arona over Jackson by Judge's Decision (until I change my mind, at least)

 

Winner of the Tourny: Silva

 

SUPERFIGHTS

Cro-Cop over Igor

Nogueira over Rodriguez

Goodridge over Emelianenko

[Guest Army Eye]

The line on Yoshida vs. Tamura has moved, so I guess Tamura got some action. It's now:

 

Kiyoshi Tamura +650

Hidehiko Yoshida -1350

 

 

Tamura would still be a tremendous bet at those odds, if I could be confident it would be a totally legitimate fight. But you have Tamura apparently saying he won't punch Yoshida in the face.. which is exactly what Don Frye did in their fight.. the whole thing is something I still wouldn't touch with a ten-foot pole

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

*would comment but the next TFATFOTD has to do with Tamura and Yoshida*

 

 

Mirko Cro Cop -500 vs. Igor Vovchanchyn +300

 

No

 

Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira -170 vs. Ricco Rodriguez +130

 

I'd bet 340 on Nog... 200 return, not bad.

 

Gary Goodridge +220 vs. Fedor Emelianenko -300

 

No.

 

Kazushi Sakuraba +500 vs. Vanderlei Silva -800

 

I'd bet 200 on Sak, just cause that's a pretty sweet win if Sak pulls it off. It's worth the risk. LOL now I know how they make their money

 

Kiyoshi Tamura +650 vs. Hidehiko Yoshida -1350

 

100 on Tamura.

 

Quinton Jackson -185 vs. Ricardo Arona +145

 

No.

 

Chuck Liddell -180 vs. Alistair Overeem +140

 

No.

 

Individual odds on winning the Grand Prix tournament

Sakuraba +1000

Hell, with that pay-off. I'd bet 100.

 

Yoshida +440

 

100 (Pride books in his favour).

 

Silva +310

 

No.

 

Jackson +360

 

200

 

Liddell +400

 

100

 

Arona +420

 

200

 

Overeem +525

 

No

 

Tamura +1510

 

No

 

Also odds on the fastest finish in the first round:

Sakuraba +575

Yoshida +360

Silva +300

Jackson +375

Liddell +450

Arona +1250

I LOVE this. God I laughed so hard the first time I read it.

Overeem +500

 

I wouldn't bet on any of these.

Edited July 29, 2003 by RavishingRickRudo

[Guest Army Eye]

Also odds on the fastest finish in the first round:

Arona +1250

LMAO

 

I have to admit, these guys at TheGreek know what they're doing

[Guest Angle-plex]

The whole tournament is taking place on August 10th, correct? I remember someone at Sherdog's forums saying it would take place over 2 PPVs.

[Guest Army Eye]

Only the first round is on the upcoming PPV. Then there is another PPV later in the year which hosts the semifinals and finals.

[Guest Slapnuts00]

I had never seen MMA before but feeling disappoited with WWE's product I decided I'd give it a try with all the hype the UFC and Pride shows were getting. I got a friend who gets PPV to tape both shows for me, watched them and really loved them! I've been won over to the point that I will actually order this show to watch live (or at least on tape delay!). I still dont have much knowledge on the fighters or history to discuss the show but I'll say I sure am looking forward to it especially with the tremendous hype.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

That's why I am doing the Fights and Fighters of the day. It helps (or at least, I hope it helps) put perspective on the each of the match-ups (and to see how many cliches I can roll out). I found when getting into Puro and MMA that a big part of ones enjoyment comes from knowing the personalities involved. Even knowing a name helps ones interest in a match. I had never seen Sakuraba fight before, but I knew who he was from internet reports, so when I saw my first Pride event and he was on it, my attention to the match was increased from all the other mathces. It's funny, after you get familiar with certain fighters, going back and re-watching the matches it seems like you're watching a totally different fight. Watching two guys you have no clue about going at it in the ring, you don't have the same emotional investment, or even intrigue, into it as you would with two fighters (or even one) that you're familiar with.

Edited July 30, 2003 by RavishingRickRudo

[Guest Brush with Greatness]

Agreed. That's why I really hate the UFC style of recycling guys in and out so quickly sometimes. A guy loses a fight. So what. Give him a few chances.

[Guest Lei Tong]

The UFC's problem is that they have two many weight classes to focus on. With only 6 shows a year, your forced to only keep the top guys in a division around, or else the top guys would rarely fight each other.

 

Orgs. like Pancrase & Shooto run upwards of 12 shows a year, and thus can afford to fully develop each of their weight divisions. And PRIDE, although only having 6 shows as well, only have to focus on fighters from 2 (3 if you count their unoffcial 185 class) divisions.

 

(Thanks to black-jack for his input on the situation).

[Guest Dangerous A]

I had never seen MMA before but feeling disappoited with WWE's product I decided I'd give it a try with all the hype the UFC and Pride shows were getting. I got a friend who gets PPV to tape both shows for me, watched them and really loved them! I've been won over to the point that I will actually order this show to watch live (or at least on tape delay!). I still dont have much knowledge on the fighters or history to discuss the show but I'll say I sure am looking forward to it especially with the tremendous hype.

Watching live (or close tape delay in Pride's case) without the spoilers makes it worth the while. That's the best way to watch MMA. When I watch a Pride DVD, I almost want to break the fast forward button because if there is a stall, I may end up skipping past it. Watching it in real time keeps me on my toes every second because even in a stall, the match could end at any moment with a submission or KO and I don't want to miss that.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

The New Announcer For Pride... apparently..

 

I had a dream last night.

 

I was at the GP.

 

... And it was taking place on a beach/resort.

 

Jackson got knocked out by Arona, after having a Harley Race style Indian Deathlock applied. Jackson was out cold and we had to dig him out of the water before he drowned. Arona was managed by P-Diddy, for anyone who cares. The person replacing Quadros was by one half of the bossom buddies and cast member of Newhart, Peter Scolari .

 

Carlos Newton was also there and participating. He faced Arona in the 2nd round, but started to run away and then started doing DBZ poses. This wasn't on the beach though, this was in a pseudo-carnival fighting grounds with a ring made out of sand.

 

Matsui was there, he was talking on a 7 ft, Ivan Drago-esque fighter, that wasn't Semmy Shilt. I believe he won (go Pimp Master D!).

 

Bas and Peter had pretty good chemistry, but I kept yelling "THAT GUY WAS A BOSSOM FUCKING BUDDY! HE WAS IN NEWHART!" so I couldn't quite hear them building up the card.

 

.....

 

I really gotta stop dreaming. So fucked up.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Anyhoodle.

 

YOUR Tournament FIGHT and Tournament FIGHTERS of the day ARE:

 

Kiyoshi Tamura vs. Hidehiko Yoshida

 

Name: Kiyoshi Tamura

Nickname: -

Record: 10 -7 - 0

Height/Weight: 5’11 / 195 lbs.

Birth Date: -

From: Japan

Style: Rings Submission Fighting

Association: U-File Camp.

• Last Fight: vs. Nobuhiko Takada (Win *KO* - Pride 23: Championship Chaos 2)

Key Fight: vs. Wanderlei Silva (Loss *TKO/Punch* - Pride 19: Bad Blood

VS.

 

Name: Hidehiko Yoshida

Nickname: -

Record: 2 - 0 - 0

Height/Weight: 5’11 / 220 lbs (dropping weight)

Birth Date: 9/3/1969

From: Japan

Style: Judo

Association: -

• Last Fight: vs. Masaaki Satake (Win *Submission/Neck Lock* - Inoki Bom-Ba-Ye 2002: Inoki vs. K-1)

Key Fight: vs. Don Frye (Win *Technical Submission/Armbar* - Pride 23: Championship Chaos 2)

“One of these things is not like the others,

One of these things just doesn't belong,

Can you tell which thing is not like the others

By the time I finish my song?”

 

In a card full of dream bouts and awesome matches this one just doesn’t _quite_ make it. At least for North American Pride fans it doesn‘t. Here we have Hidehiko Yoshida, who isn’t even a middleweight, who has only fought in 3 MMA contests (one of which wasn’t even under regular Pride rules against Royce Gracie, another against Satake - who *I* just defeated the other day when I was on a lunch break -, and one more against a disturbingly ill-prepared Don Frye) taking on Kiyoshi Tamura, who in his last 3 fights has gotten killed (Wanderlei Silva), destroyed (Bob Sapp), and declared the victor (Nobuhiko Takada... and when you find yourself facing Takada, you've already lost). Simply put, these guys don’t belong here. In a tournament with the likes of Quinton Jackson, Chuck Liddell, Wanderlei Silva, Ricardo Arona participating, guys like Tamura and Yoshida don’t fit. Those guys are top fighters, they’ve beaten the best and brightest, they are the pinnacle of the middleweight division, these two are not... And that’s the genius of it all...

 

They DON'T fit; which means they are perfect for the Pride Middleweight Grand Prix.

 

This card is all about variety. We have the big rematch, we have the stand-up war, we have the mismatch, and we have the dark-horses. We also have a potential slaughtering, a mat-classic, and another mismatch (which is a completely different kind of mismatch) in the 3 Superfights. Somewhere in my twisted mind I find this match appealing, and I think I am actually looking forward to this match more than all the others in the tournament.

 

Hidehiko Yoshida is a master grappler and submission artist, and quite possibly the best on the mat in this tournament. Now, I’ve only seen one of his fights (vs. Satake), and he didn’t really display a lot of that world class grappling skill, so I don‘t really ‘know‘ this, but shit, the guy is a gold medallist in Judo... HE HAS TO BE a master grappler and submission artist. An Olympic Gold Medal is nothing to shrug off. Obviously, Pride knows this and that’s why Yoshida’s in this thing. They want him to be a huge star, they want him to be the next Sakuraba - the next great hope for the Japanese people - they want his credibility to add to their organization, and he could quite possibly do that given how this tournament is worked... I mean, booked. I mean, set-up... I mean arranged . His stand-up ability is pretty much well non-existent, but from what I hear he won’t need it against Tamura.

 

Kiyoshi Tamura has not felt the love from the Pride fighting organization. In his first Pride fight he was put against Wanderlei Silva, the champ, and to his credit faired pretty well and even got the Axe Murderer against the ropes at one point. But in the end he got knocked out from a sick right and fell to the canvas like a sack of potatoes. Hey, he still fought the good fight and did better than he should have, so after that valiant effort against a better opponent like Silva, you’d think they’d give Tamura a break, right? Right?? Weeeelll... not exactly. Enter Bob Sapp. Exit Bob Sapp .. from the ring .. after decimating poor Tamura in 11 seconds. They might as well have put a red shirt on him, cause he was DOA. Which is a shame because Tamura actually is a pretty good lil fighter. He has faced the likes of Renzo Gracie, Pat Miletich, Gilbert Yvel, Jeremy Horn, Dave Menne, Renato Babalu, and even former Pride Hvy Champ Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (a match which can be found on Kazaa). This guy has experience, and he has faced the best... and sometimes won (beat Horn, Miletich, Gracie, Menne). Of course, a lot of these fights were in RINGS, an organization that isn’t exactly pro-striking, which is why Yoshida’s stand up (or lack thereof) shouldn’t be a pressing matter in the fight (also, there are some rumours floating about that Tamura said he wouldn’t strike with Yoshida). So this will mainly be a mat-affair...

 

...But that’s not a bad thing. Tamura, having been a worked-shooter, or worked-shoot worker, or “professional wrestler”, is very active on the mat and can work some beautiful transitions on the ground. Yoshida will want to play that game and is one of the best at that game, so I’m expecting some superb mat-work in the match and some very technical ground exchanges. Yoshida will have the strength advantage in this fight, so how fast or how slow this match will go depends on him. Given his opponent, and the pressure put on him to not only win but to become a superstar, I think he will be very active and take some chances. In fact, stylistically, I see this sort of being like the Rogerio Nogueira (a good ground fighter) vs. Kazuhiro Nakamura (who trains with Yoshida) from Pride 25: Body Blow (which was a very good match), but with the Judo-guy winning this time.

[Guest the pinjockey]

I was over browsing around Sherdog and saw a rumor floating around that Arona was out and Bustamante (?) was wanted to fill in.

 

I just wanted to find out how good this possible new guy was. If it would really affect the tourney in any way?

[Guest Army Eye]

Oh Bustamante isn't new. He is an awesome fighter. However I think he has less of a chance of beating Jackson than Arona did. Jackson's way too strong for him. Arona had the wrestling ability to possibly neutralize him.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Arona Injured? BTT Teammate Possible Replacement

 

A scheduled first-round matchup between Ricardo Arona and Quinton "Rampage" Jackson may be in jeopardy after Arona allegedly sprained an ankle in recent days, Jackson's trainer, Colin Oyama, told MaxFighting.

 

Arona, who arrived in Japan yesterday, is set to undergo tests today in a Tokyo-area hospital. Results, which should verify whether or not he will have to sit out Sunday's PRIDE Grand Prix tournament, could be known by the end of the day. When asked for confirmation on Arona's injury, DreamStage Entertainment representatives in Los Angeles said they were not in a position to comment at this time.

 

Oyama mentioned deposed UFC middleweight champion Murilo Bustamante as a possible replacement. Bustamante is in Japan to corner and coach Arona and teammate Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira, who faces Oyama-trained Ricco Rodriguez in his bout.

 

Switching opponents, while not desired at this juncture, is not problematic for his fighter, says Oyama. A potential Jackson-Bustamante is interesting because it brings together two of the most dynamic fighters in the sport. Bustamante, for all his skill on the mat and feet, would step into the ring handicapped by a significant weight and strength disadvantage. More to come....

 

 

Murillio Bustamante is considered one of the best pound for pound fighters in the world and is/was the UFC Middleweight champion. Though Arona is a top fighter, Bustamante is a better choice in this tournament because, well... let's just say... he's not as boring.

 

Bustamante vs. Jackson is a much (MUCH) better match than Arona vs. Jackson and I hope this rumour is true. There is size issues in that match, but shit, Bustamante Drew Tom Erikson after 40 fucking minutes and 70 fn pounds.

[Guest the pinjockey]

Thank you muchly. Weird that you get a case where an injury makes a card better.

 

Now back to the WWE folder to try and get more converts?

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

From Da MEltz:

 

"It is not officially confirmed, but widely believed that Ricardo Arona is out with an ankle injury, and will be replaced by Murillo Bustamante against Quinton Jackson on Sunday's Pride PPV in the first round of their tournament. "

[Guest Angle-plex]

I like Bustamante, but Rampage might be to big for him. I don't know if Busta will be able to keep Rampage down, and Rampage is the bigger, and probably better striker. Busta is the smarter fighter and grappler though.

 

Plus, you have to factor in that Busta hasn't been training for this match, and he only has a few days left to do so.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

YOUR SUPERFIGHT and SUPERFIGHTERS of the day ARE:

 

Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera vs. Ricco Rodriguez

 

Name: Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera

Nickname: Minotauro

Record: 19 - 2 - 1

Height/Weight: 6’3 / 231 lbs.

Birth Date: 6/2/1976

From: Brazil

Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

Association: Brazilian Top Team

• Last Fight: vs. Fedor Emelianenko (Loss *Decision* - Pride 25: Body Blow)

Key Win: vs. Mark Coleman (Win*Submission/Armbar* - Pride 17: Championship Chaos)

VS.

 

Name: Ricco Rodriguez

Nickname: Suave

Record: 13 - 2 - 0

Height/Weight: 6’4 / 240 lbs

Birth Date: 8/19/1977

From: USA

Style: Wrestling/Jui-Jitsu

Association: -

• Last Fight: vs. Tim Sylvia (Loss *TKO/Strikes* - UFC 41: Onslaught)

Key Win: Randy Couture (Win *Submission/Strikes* - UFC 39: The Warriors Return)

Around this time last year, these two men were the top fighters in their promotion. The top fighters in the world. Antonio Rodrigo Noguiera had beaten Bob Sapp in a tremendous bout that showed his heart and fighting spirit as he withstood the onslaught of the Beasts attack and managed to tap the big man out. Ricco Rodriguez was the odds-on-favourite to beat then former-heavyweight champion (and current light-heavyweight champion) Randy Couture in a title match and was being groomed by the UFC to be their Golden Boy. Now, a year later, both men find themselves looking up at the top of the mountain rather than standing there.

 

“Who is this Fedor guy?” “He’s good, I guess, but he doesn’t belong in a title fight with Nog!” “Tim Sylvia? What has that guy done to deserve a shot at Ricco??” “He’s nothin but a tomato can.”

 

They were the favourites going into their respective matches: Ricco’s on February 28th against Sylvia and Nog’s on March 16th against Fedor. Despite being 6’8, 260 lbs. and undefeated Tim Sylvia was seen as the underdog going into UFC 41. His only prior UFC match was at UFC 39 where he used Wes Correira (then 7 - 3 - 0) as a punching bag, so he wasn’t really a top contender nor was he a likely challenge for Rodriguez. Fedor was a different story. He had a very impressive victory over a top 10 fighter in Heath Herring, but people still scratched their head as to why he was getting a title fight against Noguiera (I know I was). A good fighter, yes, but Nog has beaten Coleman, Sapp, Herring, Henderson, Shilt, Goodridge, Inoue... what does this guy have that any of these guys didn’t?

 

While their circumstances as favourites and their surprising title losses are similar, their matches were very, very different. Where Ricco was beaten in 3 minutes in the first round by Tim Sylvia, Nog took a 20 minute beating at the hard hands of Fedor Emelianenko. However, the commonality here is that both men were totally taken out of their game plan. Ricco thought he could take down Sylvia and submit him, if not he‘d just stall and wait until the big man got tired. Nog thought he would catch Fedor’s arm and get a triangle or an armbar, after all, he did it to Sapp and Coleman. Well, Nog did catch Fedor’s arms, but he didn’t anticipate Fedor’s overwhelming power and submission defence and the fact that every time Fedor freed himself Nog would be in for some heavy-duty punches in return. Ricco didn’t have much success taking the big man down and Sylvia didn’t bother waiting around to get tired. The psychological impact of not only having lost the championship, but being totally and utterly taken apart in a match you should have won must be great on both men, which is why we haven’t seen them for 6 months.

 

Now they’re back, and these two former champions are looking to take each other out in order to restore their good name.

 

Personally, this is a dream match. I’ve wanted to see these two go head-to-head for a while now (in fact “Rodriguez vs. Nogueira would be a very interesting (and fun) fight to watch as both men are fantastic on the mat.” - RRR: A couple of months ago) because they are such a good match. They both are around the same size and age, are proficient submission fighters and are FINISHERS. Ricco has become more GnP oriented lately and has used his strength to get guys up against the cage and just deliver his strikes. The Pride ring, however, does not afford the same luxuries as the UFC cage so Ricco better think twice about Ground’n and Pound’n with Nog. Noguiera is still king of the heavyweights when it comes to mat work and can hook on that triangle in the blink-of-an-eye. Both men are smart fighters and will know each others strengths and weaknesses and try to play towards them. I think Ricco will try to keep it standing. (WHAT?) Yeah, that’s right. Ricco hasn’t been just curled up in a corner somewhere licking his wounds, he’s been improving. And what’s the area he’s improving in?? STRIKING! That’s how he lost his last fight and you know he spent that last 6 months focused on stand-up to reclaim his UFC gold and Nog probably won’t be expecting it. Ricco is a good wrestler but it seems if Nog wants it on the ground he will end up getting his way, so whether or not it stays standing for long is up to him. A lot of people seem to be counting Ricco out here which I think is a big mistake. Though I think Ricco will lose in the 2nd round to a triangle, this fight could very well go the full 20 minutes (where, of course, the decision will go to Nog), and Ricco does have a shot at winning this.

[Guest Nevermortal]

I'm pulling for Saku but it just doesn't look good. Silva is an animal.

[Guest Angle-plex]

I just saw some Sake training video (vs Matsui) and he looked stronger that ever. You can tell he really wants this win and I wouldn't count him out just yet.

[Guest Dangerous A]

This from the Observer:

 

 

It is not officially confirmed, but widely believed that Ricardo Arona is out with an ankle injury, and will be replaced by Murillo Bustamante against Quinton Jackson on Sunday's Pride PPV in the first round of their tournament.

 

 

Credit: Meltzer

 

 

 

This changes the game up quite a bit, doesn't it?

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Can you imagine what would happen if Sak won, though? That would be INSANE.

 

It's the main event BTW. Here's the match order:

 

1. Fedor Emelianenko vs. Gary Goodridge

2. Chuck Liddell vs. Alistair Overeem

3. Ricardo Arona vs. Quinton Jackson

4. Rodrigo "Minotauro" Nogueira vs. Ricco Rodriguez

5. Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic vs. Igor Vovchanchyn

6. Hidehiko Yoshida vs. Kiyoshi Tamura

7.Wanderlei Silva vs. Kazushi Sakuraba

[Guest Dangerous A]

But RRR, I just posted that Arona is now out with an ankle injury and Murilo Bustamante is in.

[Guest Angle-plex]

Can you imagine what would happen if Sak won, though? That would be INSANE.

The crowd would most likely destroy the building celebrating.

 

I'd love to see a semi-final of Saku, Yoshida, Busta, and Overeem, just because they would put on some awesome ground battle.

[Guest Dangerous A]

Can you imagine what would happen if Sak won, though? That would be INSANE.

He'd be wrestler of the year in Japan, hands down. He may even win WON wrestler of the year, or at least challenge for it it he did indeed win.