HBK Praise after watching his match vs. Y2J on RAW

[Guest bob_barron]

And Bob, you bitch about how the match was ruined just because Jericho jobbed.

 

I never said the match was ruined. It did hurt the match a bit but I still consider the match to be one of the best WWE matches of the year.

 

I don't bitch about the match or WM

 

You said-

Oh yeah let's complain some more about WM.

 

I just bitch about Brock and how someone who's blowing that big of a spot shouldn't get a spot in the main.

 

I think continually harping on Brock botching the SSP (Which wasn't really a big deal as both guys were able to easily cover for it counts as bitching about WM

[Guest FeArHaVoC]

Bret is sitting in cold Calgary all alone.

Bret Hart still has his family, wife and kids. I'm sure he isn't hurting for money either.

[Guest Choken One]

Wife left him...Family is in CHAOS...Kids are grown up and moving away...

[Guest FeArHaVoC]

Bret said last year when he had his stroke his wife was by his side. Where did all this "Bret's wife left him" stuff come from?

[Guest bob_barron]

From the fact that Bret Hart has said pubically-

 

I am divorced

[Guest Ghettoman]

Can someone define 'going over' for me? Last time I checked having two guys interfere, one hit his nifty new finisher ON A CHAIR only for you to use the ropes for leverage on your finisher which still doesn't work isn't exactly the way to look over.

 

That match was trash, the only redeeming quality was watching Michaels slam his 'injured' back around like he was 20, good to see he's keeping the myth alive.

 

The corner Walls spot was retarted, you don't lean foward to put pressure on a boston crab, and you don't purposely drag a submission near the ropes. Oh and if your opponent does, GO FOR THOSE ROPES, not the ones across the ring, no matter how badly you feel like being super man.

 

Is all it takes for people to be pleased a match over 15 minutes? I mean they had the nice old scool wrestling exchange at the beginning and it was just straight downhill from there. Michaels god-like selling(or lkack there of) of all Jericho's back work just makes me vomit really. The finish that transitions HBK out of the Jericho fued without him ever having to really give up a clean win sickens me. The whole thing sickens me.

 

I got 5 grand on whoever wants to give HBK a Tanya Harding to the back....

[chaosrage 0]

Can someone define 'going over' for me? Last time I checked having two guys interfere, one hit his nifty new finisher ON A CHAIR only for you to use the ropes for leverage on your finisher which still doesn't work isn't exactly the way to look over.

 

Let's see. Going over, Michaels was able to attempt to power out of Jericho's move, and then had enough energy to struggle all the way across the ring. Yet Jericho still overpowered him and dragged him back, oh and by the way his move was so painful that Shawn had to tap. It's not like HBK was knocked out from Orton's move. Even that was just exchange from him using the chair to superkick Jericho to begin with. It's not 100% clean, but you're a complete idiot if you think he didn't put him over.

 

That match was trash, the only redeeming quality was watching Michaels slam his 'injured' back around like he was 20, good to see he's keeping the myth alive.

 

Yeah, he made the whole thing up.

 

The corner Walls spot was retarted, you don't lean foward to put pressure on a boston crab, and you don't purposely drag a submission near the ropes. Oh and if your opponent does, GO FOR THOSE ROPES, not the ones across the ring, no matter how badly you feel like being super man.

 

Holy shit, he wasn't facing those ropes. Chris had it locked in, all Shawn could do was pull forward. Also yeah, you do lean forward when the corner is giving you extra leverage. He can't make Jericho fall down and break out of the hold when he's using the turnbuckle to hold himself up, can he?

 

Is all it takes for people to be pleased a match over 15 minutes? I mean they had the nice old scool wrestling exchange at the beginning and it was just straight downhill from there. Michaels god-like selling(or lkack there of) of all Jericho's back work just makes me vomit really.

 

Okay, burst of adreniline doesn't = no selling.

 

I got 5 grand on whoever wants to give HBK a Tanya Harding to the back....

 

Right, and there's no way you would possibly hate everything about the match just because you hate Shawn so much. Lemme guess, you're still pissed about Montreal too.

[Guest Shanghai Kid]

The people that don't like Shawn Micheals just don't accept anything he does. If he's become religous, we have to find errors and put it down. If he's putting people over, we have to make it look more tainted than it is, if he's putting on good matches, we have to say 'the most impressing thing was Jerichos carry job"...righhhht.

[Guest Retro Rob]

I love both HBK and Y2J. That match did nothing but put me to sleep and then piss me.

 

MOTY!!!!11

[Guest Ghettoman]

Let's see. Going over, Michaels was able to attempt to power out of Jericho's move, and then had enough energy to struggle all the way across the ring. Yet Jericho still overpowered him and dragged him back, oh and by the way his move was so painful that Shawn had to tap. It's not like HBK was knocked out from Orton's move. Even that was just exchange from him using the chair to superkick Jericho to begin with. It's not 100% clean, but you're a complete idiot if you think he didn't put him over.

 

Was the audience led to believe Jericho could beat HBK without the help of Orton and Flair? NO. If he put him over, he would of made Jericho look better than him not worse. Winning the match doesn't = going over, especially when your facing HBK. When you even have the announcers calling it a 'tainted victory' there's a problem.

 

Yeah, he made the whole thing up.

 

No, he just over-exaggerated it. Last time I checked when you have a career ending injury your career ends.

 

Holy shit, he wasn't facing those ropes. Chris had it locked in, all Shawn could do was pull forward. Also yeah, you do lean forward when the corner is giving you extra leverage. He can't make Jericho fall down and break out of the hold when he's using the turnbuckle to hold himself up, can he?

 

That logic would of worked had he not been dragged to the corner, or they built on him pressuring out of it. Jericho putting his head to the turn buckle could of been easily replaced by him putting a foot up on the bottom rope, it adds more pressure to the hold as opposed to just stopping HBK's super momentum. Although the whole idea of a semi-retired super star with back problems over powering what should be built as a great submission doesn't float to begin with so no point there.....

 

Okay, burst of adreniline doesn't = no selling.

 

It does when you focus the match on the back work.

 

Right, and there's no way you would possibly hate everything about the match just because you hate Shawn so much. Lemme guess, you're still pissed about Montreal too.

 

Nope, not even a Bret Hart fan in the least. I just hate ego-fuck influenced booking and Shawn happens to be one of the poster boys for that. Sorry but I must admit I enjoy watching selfish assholes bump hard.....

[chaosrage 0]

Was the audience led to believe Jericho could beat HBK without the help of Orton and Flair? NO. If he put him over, he would of made Jericho look better than him not worse. Winning the match doesn't = going over, especially when your facing HBK. When you even have the announcers calling it a 'tainted victory' there's a problem.

 

How can tapping out to the guy's finisher not make him look better? Jericho was in control for most of the match. HBK used a chair on Chris and put him out, and Orton came in and put Shawn out. He still had fight left in him though, because he kicked out. Just winning doesn't = going over, but he could've gotten pinned right after the RKO you know. If he was as much of a bitch as you guys say, he would have. Because the 3 minutes after that definitely didn't do anything to help him out or Orton. Coach is a dumbass, period. He even gave away the kick out with his "That's probably it for HBK" crap.

 

No, he just over-exaggerated it. Last time I checked when you have a career ending injury your career ends.

 

And sometimes it doesn't, like with Angle. It'd be pretty stupid to sit out 5 years and miss out on the best time of your career, THEN come back and take crazy bumps.

 

That logic would of worked had he not been dragged to the corner, or they built on him pressuring out of it. Jericho putting his head to the turn buckle could of been easily replaced by him putting a foot up on the bottom rope, it adds more pressure to the hold as opposed to just stopping HBK's super momentum. Although the whole idea of a semi-retired super star with back problems over powering what should be built as a great submission doesn't float to begin with so no point there.....

 

And what's wrong with dragging him to the corner? He brought him to the place where he couldn't power out of it. He'd either have to travel a long way to get to the ropes or break his back trying to twist his body to get to the closer ones. Seems like the perfect spot. Why is a semi-retired wrestler even an issue anymore? They stopped mentioning his back problems on TV. He wrestles on RAW's and house shows.

 

It does when you focus the match on the back work.

 

No, cause he's supposed to be trying to fight through the pain. He was standing real straightened up, like he was trying to put a lot of effort out to do it. Not no selling.

 

Nope, not even a Bret Hart fan in the least. I just hate ego-fuck influenced booking and Shawn happens to be one of the poster boys for that. Sorry but I must admit I enjoy watching selfish assholes bump hard.....

 

That's great, but it makes it sound like you'd hate whatever he did no matter what. (Unless he crippled himself)

[Guest Ghettoman]

How can tapping out to the guy's finisher not make him look better? Jericho was in control for most of the match. HBK used a chair on Chris and put him out, and Orton came in and put Shawn out. He still had fight left in him though, because he kicked out. Just winning doesn't = going over, but he could've gotten pinned right after the RKO you know. If he was as much of a bitch as you guys say, he would have. Because the 3 minutes after that definitely didn't do anything to help him out or Orton. Coach is a dumbass, period. He even gave away the kick out with his "That's probably it for HBK" crap.

 

Easily, when it takes two other wrestlers to hurt you before you tap out. In no way did that match suggest Jericho could beat HBK in a one on one match, in no way did it make Jericho look like he's a superior wrestler to HBK. If Shawn was about to win clean on Jericho, and 14 guys came in and assaulted him for Jericho to put on the Walls and he tapped would you tell me he went over too? Coach can't possibly be a dumbass for pointing out whats obvious to millions....

 

And sometimes it doesn't, like with Angle. It'd be pretty stupid to sit out 5 years and miss out on the best time of your career, THEN come back and take crazy bumps.

 

Stupid, and questionable. I wonder how his wife and kid are doing.....

 

And what's wrong with dragging him to the corner? He brought him to the place where he couldn't power out of it. He'd either have to travel a long way to get to the ropes or break his back trying to twist his body to get to the closer ones. Seems like the perfect spot. Why is a semi-retired wrestler even an issue anymore? They stopped mentioning his back problems on TV. He wrestles on RAW's and house shows.

 

Further pussification of what should be Jericho's main finisher, they most certainly do make note of the back problems both in the match story and with the commentators, why Jericho can't just bring it to the middle of the ring and make HBK Mr Chronic back pain tap out immediately especially after a lot of offense is ridiculous, especially when your opting for a dirty booked finish. If it were a classic face vs heel yes, but it's not, It's the young fresh Jericho and the old wore down HBK, who's already retired before. When it takes not only him but two other outside forces to finally win the match in no way does Jericho go over.

 

No, cause he's supposed to be trying to fight through the pain. He was standing real straightened up, like he was trying to put a lot of effort out to do it. Not no selling.

 

Man he fought through that all pretty easily, I guess Jericho is just weaker right? Typical HBK back selling, he gives nothing to his opponent towards the end.

 

That's great, but it makes it sound like you'd hate whatever he did no matter what. (Unless he crippled himself)

 

I'd actually have no problem with him if he stopped doing whats best for HBK and starts doing whats best for the future of the business, he's not my only gripe, but he's certainly one of 'em.

[Guest JMA]

Well, I thought the match was good. Despite the way Shawn has acted in the past, he has always been a great wrestler.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

The people that don't like Shawn Micheals just don't accept anything he does.

 

And the people who love Shawn think he can do no wrong... ahem... cough... kid...

 

If he's become religous, we have to find errors and put it down.

 

Shawn has been known to lie "I swear to god, my hands are clean of this." Then he comes down and advertises his faith for EVERYONE to see. Does his lil stripper routine with crosses abound and prays on the rampway. I'm not "putting down" anything, I'm just skeptical.

 

If he's putting people over, we have to make it look more tainted than it is

 

2 guys came down. Flair pulled the ref out. Orton came down and cuttered HBK. WHY? To set up a feud? They could have easily done that AFTER Jericho won and have the same effect. What was the replay they showed afterwards? (it was Orton cutting) What did the announcers player up (the interferance). But hey, it's only the Hbk-haters who have bias issues here... riiiight.

 

if he's putting on good matches, we have to say 'the most impressing thing was Jerichos carry job"...righhhht.

 

It was. Jericho totally did the grunt work in this match and did his best to keep the fans in it just like he did in their Wrestlemania match. Which is more a testiment to Jerichos ability rather than a knock on HBK. I said Jericho carried Hogan and I'm a big Hogan fan.

[chaosrage 0]

Easily, when it takes two other wrestlers to hurt you before you tap out. In no way did that match suggest Jericho could beat HBK in a one on one match, in no way did it make Jericho look like he's a superior wrestler to HBK. If Shawn was about to win clean on Jericho, and 14 guys came in and assaulted him for Jericho to put on the Walls and he tapped would you tell me he went over too? Coach can't possibly be a dumbass for pointing out whats obvious to millions....

 

No... I told you, if he had made him submit right after Orton knocked him out, then it wouldn't be putting him over. But seeing as how he fought back and had some energy left, it is. It didn't do shit to make Shawn look better. He quit. He gave up because he couldn't take the pain. Not because he couldn't go anymore. He actually could go and was trying to make attempts to break it. How often did Shawn ever submit? That puts him over huge, and makes his finisher look brutal. If it makes Shawn give up, it must hurt.

 

A win doesn't have to be totally clean to put someone over. For one night, Jericho came out looking a lot better than HBK, and that's that. (Did you miss the part about him being in control for most of the 25 minutes?)

 

Further pussification of what should be Jericho's main finisher, they most certainly do make note of the back problems both in the match story and with the commentators, why Jericho can't just bring it to the middle of the ring and make HBK Mr Chronic back pain tap out immediately especially after a lot of offense is ridiculous, especially when your opting for a dirty booked finish. If it were a classic face vs heel yes, but it's not, It's the young fresh Jericho and the old wore down HBK, who's already retired before. When it takes not only him but two other outside forces to finally win the match in no way does Jericho go over.

 

Well the problem is he's not old and worn down. He's 38. There's no talk of him retiring, having a last match, opponents ending his career, or anything like that anymore. Since coming back, he won the world title, beat Triple H clean twice, and takes huge bumps every time he wrestles. He's obviously not that injured.

 

Man he fought through that all pretty easily, I guess Jericho is just weaker right? Typical HBK back selling, he gives nothing to his opponent towards the end.

 

It doesn't make him weaker or stronger. Shawn just gives one last effort to turn it around. Of course he usually ends up on his ass right after it, so I can see where you're coming from when you say he gives nothing back. ...........Oh wait, I don't, that's some bullshit. He couldn't even make the cover when he did the super kick. All it does is get the fans more into the action.

 

I'd actually have no problem with him if he stopped doing whats best for HBK and starts doing whats best for the future of the business, he's not my only gripe, but he's certainly one of 'em.

 

So the best thing for HBK is to make it look like Jericho is on his level instead of just squashing him and making him his bitch like HHH did.

[Guest Memphis]

On a COMPLETELY unrelated note,

 

Shawn has one nasty bald spot brewing there. That's going to be real attractive in about 5 years time.

 

Solid M

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Meanwhile...

 

Bret has a full head of hair

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

How so?

 

 

Shawn is still happy...Has a hot wife...Is still running the game backstage...Wrestling in front 59,000 at mania...Has faith...

 

Bret is sitting in cold Calgary all alone.

They are both broken down senile old hasbeens who will be lucky if they live to see 50 due to the abuse their bodies have taken over the years.

[Guest Ghettoman]

chaosrage, one last question, if you tell me yes mind me while I slap you....

 

Did it look as if Jericho would win the match before Orton interfered? From what the WWE showed us, were we led to believe Jericho could beat HBK without interference?

[Guest Retro Rob]

chaosrage, one last question, if you tell me yes mind me while I slap you....

 

Did it look as if Jericho would win the match before Orton interfered? From what the WWE showed us, were we led to believe Jericho could beat HBK without interference?

I'll answer for now.

 

Possibly, but keep in mind that before Orton and ran in and Flair hopped on the apron, Shawn has just SUPERKICKED A STEEL CHAIR into Jericho's face.

[Guest Ghettoman]

A steel chair Jericho brought in, meaning not only was Jericho unable to beat him without a weapon, he wasn't even able to beat him with a weapon. Jericho sure does look tough there.....

[Guest Retro Rob]

A steel chair Jericho brought in, meaning not only was Jericho unable to beat him without a weapon, he wasn't even able to beat him with a weapon. Jericho sure does look tough there.....

No he doesn't, which was the point I was trying to make.

[Guest Ghettoman]

Ah....*backs away slowly*

[Guest Retro Rob]

Ah....*backs away slowly*

You better.

[Guest Coffey]

I actually thought the match was pretty lackluster. It most definitely could've been better. It just seemed like both HBK & Y2J were moving in slow motion. Evolution didn't need to be involved either. At least not Flair. I guess Flair is better than Orton though...but we all know the Orton/HBK feud is coming.

 

The match did pick up after the mid Walls of Jericho commerical break...but that break was atrocious.

[Guest Choken One]

Sigh...

 

The Match was NOT slow. Jesus Christ people are we so trained to think that if a Plancha doesn't occur in the first 3 minutes that the match is "SLOW" ?

[Guest Retro Rob]

Sigh...

 

The Match was NOT slow. Jesus Christ people are we so trained to think that if a Plancha doesn't occur in the first 3 minutes that the match is "SLOW" ?

I don't care how you want to cut it. That match moved at a very slow pace. There is a way to make SLOW entertaining that would have been if you had them selling the holds more or Jericho taunting both Shawn and the crowd. That barely happened.

[Guest bob_barron]

Sigh...

 

The Match was NOT slow. Jesus Christ people are we so trained to think that if a Plancha doesn't occur in the first 3 minutes that the match is "SLOW" ?

If a match moves at a slow pace with nothing happening then the match is considered to be 'slow' in my eyes.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

The problem here is that the pace of the show and the pace of the match differed. When you surround a 25 minute match with various promos and 3 minute matches, it's going to seem long in comparison. That's why they did the initial 'wrestling mat sequence' off the bat. It was to get fans adjusted and it said "ok, this is going to be at a slower pace'. Coaches announcing didn't help either as he put _no_ emotion at all into it and did not pick up _any_ of the little things.

[Guest Choken One]

Yeah...The announcers never spoke of the match until flair showed up...

 

Those fans were adjusted to think "Well it's going to be long one so we don't need to react until the end"