No one cares about the championships

[Guest Redhawk]

Think about the past couple of years in WWE. What were the most compelling or "hot" feuds, the ones WWE didn't need to tell fans exactly how and why to cheer or boo? You had Chris Jericho versus Shawn Michaels. HBK versus Ric Flair. Kurt Angle versus Chris Benoit. Brock Lesnar versus Angle. Los Guerreros versus Angle/Benoit versus Edge/Mysterio. What did these feuds have in common? They were, for the most part, all about competition, championships, or simply answering the question "Which one of us is better?"

 

In the past, you could book a feud on stuff like that (Flair-Steamboat, Hogan-Warrior). That was back when the championships meant something. The wrestlers' characters on TV seemed to care about the belts, and it made the fans care. That's not the case today. The wrestlers don't care, so the fans don't care, and the writers feel like they need to write feuds about shampoo and slutty girlfriends and spilled coffee in order to get people to pay attention. Not to say that there's no place for this "entertainment" side of wrestling, but whatever happened to the "sports" part?

 

Think of a successful sports business, like the NFL or the NBA. What percentage of NFL players do you think watched this past Super Bowl? Probably somewhere between 80 and 99 percent, I would assume. That's because NFL players care about the championship and they care who the champ is. The same goes for almost every sport: basketball, baseball, hockey, golf, soccer, boxing, etc. When Lennox Lewis defended the heavyweight boxing title against Vitaly Klitschko, I would bet that every heavyweight anywhere near the Top 10 contender's list was watching, because they care about the title since they all want to wear it one day.

 

But what happens in wrestling? Even though they have the upper hand on real sports in that they can make a compelling story when there isn't one, wrestling still blows their opportunity. I'm not saying the wrestlers in real life don't want to be the champ, but this ain't about real life. This is about their TV personas, which is all the fans see from these guys and the personas that are suposed to draw business.

 

For example, Brock Lesnar is the champion on Smackdown, but what wrestlers even care? Right now it's just Kurt Angle and Big Show, and that's only because they have a title match coming up. Other than that, none of the show's other top stars -- not Undertaker, Chris Benoit, Eddy Guerrero, John Cena, Matt Hardy -- not even Zack Gowen...ever mentions Brock Lesnar's or that they want to be the champ or anything regarding the championship.

 

On RAW, Triple H hasn't defended the championship for a month, and he was (in kayfabe) nearly beaten in that match, yet only Goldberg has shown a faint interest in the championship lately. RVD, Jericho, HBK, Kane, Booker T, Christian, Randy Orton and the rest of the crew doesn't seem to give a shit about Triple H's title or even indicate that they are shooting for it.

 

It's cool that they recently had Christian and Booker T seem like they really cared about the Intercontinental Title, but does anyone actually think Christian will be mentioning the title three weeks from now? It's also cool that they have made Benoit and the guys in the US Title tourney seem to care about the belt, but how many of them will mention it three weeks from now?

 

The way WWE writes things, the champs -- World, IC, US, tag, Women's, Cruiserweight, whatever -- always appear to be at least fairly concerned (Mysterio, Gail Kim) or at most obsessive (Christian, Team Angle) about their belts. Then, usually one but no more than two other wrestlers/teams express a strong interest in the belts, and they have a PPV match a month later. No one else on the roster gives a crap, as they are too concerned with trying to pimp Torrie Wilson or burn Jim Ross or find out who Mr. America is. Most of the time, the owners and GMs don't even seem to be concerned with the championships. When Scott Steiner pretty much came out of nowhere to RAW amd was immediately granted a title shot, why didn't Booker T, Chris Jericho, Bubba Ray Dudley...shit, even Chris Nowinski -- somebody -- come running down like, "Aw hell no! No way he gets a shot and he hasn't even been here! That's bullshit!"

 

As a fan who's trying to suspend disbelief you can't help but ask, "Why don't these guys care?" When Babyface Brock held the title belt, Heel Undertaker was totally concerned with winning it from him. But now that Undertaker is a babyface, too, he doesn't care anymore? That makes no sense. Even if your best buddy is the best at something, don't you still *kind of* want to be the best yourself? Just because, say, Jason Kidd and Tim Duncan are friends, Kidd still wanted to kick Duncan's ass in the NBA Finals, and vice versa. But WWE brass seems to think fans are so dumb that we'll get confused by one babyface mentioning that he would like to be the champion when another babyface holds the belt. I'm not calling for a run of heel-heel and babyface-babyface feuds, but I don't see what's wrong with having more than one or two wrestlers express interest in the Championship of the World at the same time. If anything it will make the fans care about the titles, which makes it easier to book feuds and matches.

 

This might seem like a small, subtle issue, but to me it has a hand in some of the creative and business problems WWE has. The bad writing is partly a result of them always thinking they need to be cute and clever and have soap opera stories instead of simple, "I want the belt" feuds.

 

Any thoughts?

[Guest JRE]

Yes, there definetley needs to be more title matches. Trips did defend the belt against Maven...but, that has no ground...he needs more matches, matches just about the title. Same with Brock...the last time he defended it was when...against Show? Does no one care about the title besides the Big Show and Kurt Angle?

 

The lower card signles titles I can't really complain about- the IC and US titles have been having some good competetion, though...more variety is needed in the IC division. The Cruiserweight Title is doing well too, even if the Champion is going for the Tag Titles. And the Women's Title...well, it's still better than it has ever been in the WWE.

 

Now the Tag Titles....the World Tag Titles are a complete mess. Cade and Jindrak won a non-title match against La Resistance and it got NO MENTION WHATSOEVER on Raw, let alone a title match. Raw basically has two real tag teams, whcih is quite pathetic. Smackdown has been improving nicely in the division. The WGTT are great champions- and there's a good amount of teams...the APA, FBI, Bashams- and a good variety of teams to throw together...like Benoit/Rhyno, Shannon/Matt, Rey/Kidman. The SD division still isn't the best it could be...but it's the best the WWE Tag Division has been since the split.

[Guest FileCabinet]

The SD division still isn't the best it could be...but it's the best the WWE Tag Division has been since the split.

I definitely agree with that. Most of the feuds involving the SmackDown tag team titles were about the belts. The SmackDown Six revolved around the tag team titles. Team Angle continued their struggle to get their titles back until they finally won them. Also the teams that have held the titles have been very good:

Benoit & Angle

Edge & Misterio

Los Guerreros

Eddie & Tajiri

Benjamin & Haas

 

I really hope the titles stay on TWGTTE until they fix the division. I don't want to see the APA or the FBI's names harm the nice list.

 

Anyway, I agree with Redhawk. Looking at Triple H's world title run, the only person he's defeated who won't stop his quest for the title is...Shawn Michaels . Jericho, Kane, RVD, and Booker T have all lost in their title matches and gave up. Booker T settled for the stupid Intercontinental title, RVD and Kane settled for the worthless tag titles, and Jericho...hasn't done anything important. They need to solve this problem or the audience won't take these people seriously since they've been booked to give up on themselves.

[Guest Insane Bump Machine]

Very good post Redhawk, that whole issue has been bothering me as well.

 

But now that Undertaker is a babyface, too, he doesn't care anymore? That makes no sense. Even if your best buddy is the best at something, don't you still *kind of* want to be the best yourself?

 

Funny thing is that they ARE doing that with Lesnar/Angle right now, but that's only a one time thing to further that particular storyline.

 

Every wrestler on the roster must want to become the champion. It's the only legitimate (in kayfabe terms) proof that you are the best at what you do, and that's what everybody's goal should be. It's not a hard concept to figure out.

[Guest Redhawk]

It's not just Triple H's challengers who forget about the title two weeks after losing title matches. John Cena was almost stalking Brock Lesnar after he got injured. He finally came back, got his title shot, and since then he hasn't even mentioned Brock. Even Big Show is guilty of this, despite going into his 5th or 6th title match with Brock. If you pay attention Big Show's focus is more "I want Brock" than "I want the title." But at least he has a focus. I'll take that over RVD, who gets passionate about something once every three weeks, than is all "whatever" the rest of the time.

 

And it's not like I think every wrestler needs to throw in "And by the way, I want a title shot" into every promo, but it'd be nice to think that guys actually think about the belt sometimes.

[Guest Retro Rob]

The titles seem more like a novelty than anything else. Hell, last week, Lesnar took his belt off, stood on the turnbuckle and just threw the thing in the ring. The other problem is that many of the champions are undeserving of the titles. This is mostly the case on Raw with the likes of Gail Kim, La Resistance, and Triple H. Also, lately the title have reigns have been either too long or too short. There hasn't been much middle ground. Therefore people get bored with the lengthy title reigns (HHH), but could care less about the ones that change hands all the time (Women's and Raw Tag-Team).

[Guest Redhawk]

Instead of using the title to get someone over, they need to use someone over to elevate the titles. WWE's logic of, "The Rock is over enough that he doesn't need the title" is so stupid. If the man is the most popular guy you have, make him the f'n champ instead of using the World title to make people care about Big Show.

[Guest Coffey]

I love when people make topics like this. When someone spends a good amount of time to create a well thought out original topic it inspires me to respond with as much effort as the original poster had when creating the topic.

 

I disagree with JRE when he said that there needs to be more title matches. No, I think that once a month is frequent enough. One every two months now, which is still fine by me. The champion has to defend the title six times a year. That works for me. What I don't agree with is the complete lack of contendership matches. Not just number one contender matches for the challenger of the month either. What if the number four competitor wants to climb the ladder? Why shouldn't he be allowed to do so with the crowd being acknowledged that if he wins, he moves up to the third ranked superstar? Also, although it's nice to see someone like Maven or Jeff Hardy have a good match with the current champion, what did they do to get a title shot? I can understand Hardy moreso than Maven, as Hardy was pretty much in a feud with Taker for awhile. Maven didn't get anything. Was the champion just being courteous? If the champion felt so inclined to be a nice guy, why didn't he give the shot to a ranked contender? Was is so that the champion could play up being cocky and over confident? Well, they should've done that then.

 

When I first started watching wrestling, the champions were pretty much all that mattered. The belts were looked at by all as something to obtain. There was no second tier belts. They were all just gold. They were all championships. Of course, when I reflect upon WWF of old, they have pretty much always suffered from this problem. When Rick Rude was the Intercontinental Champion, The Ultimate Warrior was on his tail. No one else acknowledged the IC title during their feud. That's not how NWA/WCW was however. I remember buying magazines in the past just to see where each wrestler was ranked. They had it down. Barry Windham was ranked number eight. Next month, after a couple more victories and a couple of US title shots he moved up the ladder. That's the way it should be. I wish the WWE could do that today. It just seems like the wrestlers themselves don't mention their own history. I can understand the WWE creative team not doing so, but the wrestlers could bring stuff like that up in promos.

 

Of course, it's not all about titles either. Career Vs. Career matches or gimmick matches to blow-off fueds are usually entertaining, and rarely involve a title. That's fine though, because the crowd has went for the ride during the entire fued. Maybe these feuds started from someone costing somewhere else the title to begin with. So they know that it's personal and well beyond titles at this point. Why can't the wrestlers still talk about the titles though? Everyone should be attempting to constantly raise the image of all titles.

 

I completely understand where you are coming from Redhawk. It's the little things that matter the most, or so it seems. I also agree that no wrestler should ever be above any belt. That's just not the way it is. If someone like The Rock won the Intercontinental title now, it would seem like he was falling down that ladder. So, the question that gets raised is how can a "second tier title" not look second tier when compared to the main title? Well, I think that Tag Team Championships or Intercontinental Championships as the last match is a good place to start. One of the biggest gripes I have about WWE PPV's is when they curtain jerk with a title match. It makes it seem like the match doesn't even matter. It would be different if the commentators could say something like "Ladies and gentlemen, this match wasn't scheduled to go on first, but the two wrestlers just couldn't wait any longer and damnit, we don't want to have to wait either." You know what I mean? Just something like that.

 

Retro Rob pretty much hit the nail on the head when he said that champions nowadays are undeserving. When Razon Ramon debuted on WWF TV, he didn't debut in an Intercontinental battle royal and win the championship his first night. That's just one of the problems that adds to the fire. The titles are a mess. It's nice to be able to give input on how we all feel about them though. Many different opinions and whatnot have already come about from this thread and made me realize some things that I've overlooked in the past.

 

Great post by the way Redhawk.

[Guest undisputedjericho]

. One of the biggest gripes I have about WWE PPV's is when they curtain jerk with a title match. It makes it seem like the match doesn't even matter.

 

They want to warm up the crowd; get them hot at the top of the show.

[Guest Coffey]

. One of the biggest gripes I have about WWE PPV's is when they curtain jerk with a title match. It makes it seem like the match doesn't even matter.

 

They want to warm up the crowd; get them hot at the top of the show.

Which is why the commentators needs to say something about the match like I gave in my example. In a thread like this, replying with one sentence after someone tries to make a couple of points make you look like a fool in my opinion. It just takes away from the topic itself. You didn't add anything to the topic.

 

Why can't a non-title match warm up the crowd? Why should a crowd even need warmed up? They should be happy with the WWE because the WWE shouldn't suck. If wrestling wasn't bad, you wouldn't have to worry about where each show was, because all crowds would be hot. The title matches are what should sell a show. They should be the main event, not the curtain jerker. Part of the reason why the WWE is bad right now is because of the title situation, which this thread is attempting to discuss. Good topics/debates can add a lot to a message forum. You'd be surprised. Too bad there are too many people like you who won't take the time to say something worthwhile.

[boobshaw 0]

Something I would like to add to this magnificant post from Redhawk is the fact that there are no longer TRUE No. 1 contender's matches. It used to be that they built up a fued between two or more wrestlers with the fact that when they won, they would then become the number one contender to the title (to whichever title). This way, the ones in the no. 1 contender match have to think not only about that match, but who the champion will be in the actual title bout. This meant that not only were the parties involved in the match looking for the belt, but the two or three potential contenders wanted it as well, creating endless promo/matchup possibilities.

 

I also agree with Jag about the rankings. That was definitely something that let the wrestling fan know where a wrestler was in relation to each title, and still create a sense that each wrestler individually knew their place. I even remember some promos where a wrestler had mentioned they were number ____ on the list and were ready to move to the top.

 

Great post Redhawk. I completely agree. That is why, hopefully, the US Title will bring a sense of urgency and desire for a title, and not just hatred over some petty happening in the back.

 

Great great thread.

[Guest Austin3164life]

There are two reasons as to why titles really just mean pieces of gold tin strapped to leather, instead of the most coveted prize in the division (imo).

 

First of all, the wrestlers themselves (during feuds) put all of the attention and focus on the personal bitterness or emotion between each other rather than what the true goal should be, the WWE World Championship. I.E. Kurt Angle shouldn't try and get Brock Lesnar back for causing Angle to spit milk on a blonde chick, Kurt Angle (being a medalist and former champ) should strive to proove to Lesnar that Angle is the next World Title. Consider how Austin really never cared who his opponent was. Austin himself would put over the fact that he'd never allow someone to take his World Title off of him. Lately too many wrestlers are concerned with personal vendettas rather than the big picture.

 

Secondly, the announcing team also focuses on the emotional standpoint of a feud rather than the fact that two guys are gunning for a coveted belt. The announcers need to put over the belt as well so it could seem important. Instead the announcing team focuses on other factors of a feud, and sometimes on other storylines all together. Remember when Jim Ross said "Austin's eight year journey has been culminated with WWF gold"? Even though he was not in the WWF those eight years he made it sound like the WWF World Title is something truly coveted. Cole and Tazz are getting there, but they are victims of the "Sports Entertainment" style as well.

[boobshaw 0]

Good points...

 

But, this brings up the question of how can the WWE start turning the audience back around from looking at the personal vendettas to looking at the title itself?

 

I honestly think that the US Title can be the beginning of the focus on the title itself (albeit the title is ugly as hell).

[Guest Austin3164life]

I honestly think that the US Title can be the beginning of the focus on the title itself (albeit the title is ugly as hell).

 

Took the words right off of my keyboard. Eddie winning the title, wanting to prove to the World he's a great champion. Also wants to prove that he's better than Benoit = elevating a title to a good status with fans and creating a simple yet realistic vendetta that could focus on "whoever is champion is the man".

[boobshaw 0]

The only problem is can we actually trust the WWE with following through on something as big as this that they plan on starting.

 

The biggest thing about the past when it came to focusing on the title is that the gimmicks of the characters in the ring practically didn't extend past their promo/entrance/extra match stuff mannerisms (I hope that makes sense). With Eddy and his Low Riders, there is something else in the mix that can easily take away attention from the title. If Benoit gets the title, then he could be the person that he has always been: few words, walk in, take care of business, walk it. "You gotta feel it!"

 

But, like I said, I am scared that if they give Eddy the belt that they may use the Low Rider as a reason for a fight with the belt as just an aside. Which, is what the belts have become, just an aside.

[Guest Austin3164life]

But Eddie is smart enough and can get the crowd in the palm of his hands with his charisma and can get them thinking he really loves the championship. Austin had beer, pickup trucks, monster trucks, beer trucks, and other merchanidse-esque type stuff. It's what Austin said on the mic and what he did in the ring that counted first, and what made him a great World Champ, and what made fans care about the World Title (and when Austin lost). The announcers play a big role by saying stuff like "Austin'd rather die than lose the WWF Title".

[Guest Insane Bump Machine]

The biggest thing about the past when it came to focusing on the title is that the gimmicks of the characters in the ring practically didn't extend past their promo/entrance/extra match stuff mannerisms (I hope that makes sense). With Eddy and his Low Riders™, there is something else in the mix that can easily take away attention from the title. If Benoit gets the title, then he could be the person that he has always been: few words, walk in, take care of business, walk it. "You gotta feel it!"

 

But, like I said, I am scared that if they give Eddy the belt that they may use the Low Rider as a reason for a fight with the belt as just an aside. Which, is what the belts have become, just an aside.

They should definitely extend the feud between the two up until Summerslam and have the final blowoff there. They are two guys who can really make a championship seem important by having great, hard-fought matches and bringing up the importance of titles in their promos (especially Benoit, the only thing about his promos that is really good). Both of them had a big part in making the Smackdown Tag belts mean something last year.

 

*fantasy booking coming up, don't read if you hate this stuff*

 

I would turn Benoit heel during the match at Vengeance. Eddy is way over as a face right now, so have Benoit bring the dirty tactics and cheat 2 win the belt. This gives him bragging rights about out-cheating the master of cheating himself, and gives Eddy a reason to want a rematch at Summerslam. You could have Benoit come out on the next Smackdown with Heyman as his new manager. Heyman is pretty much the best heel promo man they have on Smackdown and I think that him giving vicious interviews while Benoit stands next to him with his trademark evil grin could be really awesome. Build Benoit up by having some clean non-title wins on Smackdown in good matches where he looks great (against Rey and Rhyno for example). Come Summerslam the fans will want to see Eddy finally shut Benoit and Heyman up and win the belt, and then you give it to them.

[Guest Will Scarlet]

But, this brings up the question of how can the WWE start turning the audience back around from looking at the personal vendettas to looking at the title itself?

 

Well, they could start by actually running with things, as opposed to basically forgetting about them after one week.

 

It seems like the WWE has the basic idea and interest of building a title up as important, they need to find ways to do it. On Raw, you have Triple H, a guy who is a “competitor” and is “That damn good.” It seems like the kind of guy who would actually care about the belt at least characterwise, so why is a basic prop to make him look cooler? They had an idea when they had wrestlers getting pissed when he was just handed the belt. Why not expand on that idea and force him to prove that he’s the man? Or a few weeks back when they had Booker T get rather excited in a promo that he won the I-C Title. Why not do something like having him say that he won 5 WCW titles, but this is better because it’s WWE gold, and something that every wrestler thrives to win.

 

Same basic idea with Le Resistance. They’re French. They are trying to prove that the French are better than the Americans. What better way to do that than by capturing Tag Team gold? Hell, they can even go slightly old school and say they are taking the belts to show Jacques Chirac himself after they win it. The basic idea is there, but they don’t expand on it, instead having them sing really bad, and have “Proud Americans” beat them up. How thrilling.

 

Hell, even the Women’s title is the same way. When they gave Gail Kim the title a few weeks ago, the announcers were all like, “This is her dream to hold this title!” and so on. Unfortunately, they never really expanded on that.

 

Kim has yet cut a promo saying that it’s an honour to the win the title, and she has defended it once against Molly Holly, who was an afterthought of the division just two weeks before. Hardly something that wants to make me look at the Women’s title in a positive light.

 

Besides, who is Gail Kim anyway? She’s just some Asian female from Toronto who had a few vignettes talking about changing my world, which I am guessing has to do with her hitting a Hurricanrana because that’s all she has done thus far in the WWE.

 

Why not say that Kim is an International superstar, who, at her young age, dominated in her native Korea, but now has come stateside because she wants to hold the WWE Women’s title. It’s like when in baseball or something when someone comes over from Japan to play in the Major Leagues and win the World Series, that to me, says that “Hey! If people from half way around the world who had great success in their native land come all the way to US to be successful, then it must be pretty damned important.

 

Expanding on the battle royal idea, you can have Kim win the title in the same way. The next week, you have Jazz cut a promo about how she was never defeated for that title, she was not even eliminated from the battle royal! She’s better than Kim, and she’ll prove it once she’s back healthy. Same thing with Victoria. It was her that injured Jazz, and that Kim only managed to throw her over the top rope. Kim couldn’t beat her in the match. Perhaps do a thing in the locker room with Trish and Gail where Trish says, “We may be friends, but I want a shot at the belt!” or something to that effect. It makes the title they have seem important to have three women going after it, and one achieving her dream by winning it, and then having to prove she’s the number one woman by having to defeat all three of the women. And that’s just for one of the least important titles in the WWE.

 

It seems like with all the titles have some sort of idea of importance when they are won. If they could just expand on that idea, then making the title worth something worth something could be easier than the WWE realizes.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

The only thing that I don't really understand is why the WWE doesn't use the titles to make their shows better. They could show top ten ranking systems to show where the wrestlers currently stand before every show. This creates a buzz around titles and guys don't even have to acknowledge going after the titles. This alone would help the situation of the title picture. I definately think it's a problem when the main focus is not on the athletic part of "Sports Entertainment". But to be perfectly honest, I'll take Professional Wrestling over "Sports Entertainment" anyday.

[Guest Retro Rob]

The only thing that I don't really understand is why the WWE doesn't use the titles to make their shows better. They could show top ten ranking systems to show where the wrestlers currently stand before every show. This creates a buzz around titles and guys don't even have to acknowledge going after the titles. This alone would help the situation of the title picture. I definately think it's a problem when the main focus is not on the athletic part of "Sports Entertainment". But to be perfectly honest, I'll take Professional Wrestling over "Sports Entertainment" anyday.

Because that worked so well for WCW.

 

Why should a crowd even need warmed up? They should be happy with the WWE because the WWE shouldn't suck.

 

HAHA. In a perfect (or just logical) world...

[Guest Redhawk]

The announcers have been trying to make title matches seem important, but they have horrible timing. For example, instead of waiting until the ring entrances or slow spots during the match to hype the title belt's importance, they should be doing it in the weeks leading up to title matches.