RVD is stepping up to HHH

[Guest Loss4Words]

I should mention that Foley was able to retire in 2000 because he made seven figures for the first time in his career in 1999. If you want to use wrestlers as examples, how about Dynamite Kid?

[Murmuring Beast 0]

More made than Foley was. When Foley left, let's face it - NOBODY cared.

[Guest Choken One]

Exactly. Murmuring Beast is painting himself into a corner.

 

I agreed with what you said early L4W...They are Humans and They are at the point where family means more then your hobby and desire...His dream was once to wrestle but Like Foley...I bet RVD's new dream is for his kids to be well off.

[Guest Choken One]

More made than Foley was. When Foley left, let's face it - NOBODY cared.

Why was it the second he walked back...The crowd popped and ratings went up?

 

When he left ratings went down...His merch was still a hot seller.

 

 

You might have missed him Beast but I beg to say that Millons more missed him.

[Murmuring Beast 0]

According to him, he was wresling in front of houses of 50.

[Guest Choken One]

Are you talking about when he left WCW or WWE?

 

Me and L4W are under the impression that your refering to his final retirement?

 

Yeah and Foley said he regretted it and you damn well bet that RVD and almost all the other wrestlers back there have been taught by foley not screw you family for your own dreams.

[Guest Loss4Words]

That's because he was paying his dues. RVD has paid his dues at this point, just as Foley did. Foley finally made it to the big time and was able to wrestle better matches in front of larger crowds for more money. That's the most any wrestler can ask for.

 

RVD wrestled in front of small crowds and was probably the most popular non-WCW/WWF competitor for years. But Rob made it to the big time in 2001, and while I'm sure he wishes he wasn't a victim of politics and perception now, he's already paid his dues to get to this point, so why would he go back?

[Murmuring Beast 0]

Why did Foley go back?

[Guest Choken One]

Go Back Where?

[Murmuring Beast 0]

To the indies after WcW.

[Guest Choken One]

Because IIRC he was offered a lower contract and didn't like the direction..

 

Yeah He left for his own selfish reasons and admit regret because it set him back.

[Guest Boo_Bradley]

*rubs eyes*

[Guest Loss4Words]

Foley went back because, at that point, it was *possible* for him to make as much money in the indies as it was in WCW. He had two children at that point and probably wouldn't have made that decision otherwise. He mentions in his book how hard it was to come to the decision to leave WCW. Foley also knew that if he established himself as a commodity on the independent scene that he could jump to the WWF or even return to WCW down the road with a big push. Foley said specifically in his book that while it would be difficult, he knew leaving WCW that he would be able to match his pay on the independent scene.

 

Wrestling is a passion, but it's also a business, and as Foley mentioned, he would have been worthless staying in WCW another year. Unless something drastic happens, RVD will not be worthless, simply because he's not the only one being misused. It's a company epidemic more than it is a reflection on RVD, and *everyone* knows that.

[Guest humongous2002]

First of all this is pro wrestling and even though we all know that the whole thing is choreographed there are sometimes that people get out of hand, like J.R. the hoss lover says this is not ballet.Now about RVD, is true that back in ECW and in WWF 2001 he was a bit reckless but that's because he is used to the japanese style which is what really got him over, he eventually changed his style in late 2001 and as far as i know he hasn't stiffed anyone ever since....eXcept for HHH, and after reading the wrestling observer now we know why he's been stiffing HHH. The fact that Hunter has no business being in the booking meetings and politicking his ass off to get other people bury says alot about this obsessed insecured mark(HHH). The guy would give 2 shits if RVD was killing guys left and right with his kicks, the only thing he cares is loosing his spot, is not enough that his job is secure for life when he marries Fat Steph but he feels so threatened by RVD,Jericho,Book, Benoit and other more talented wrestlers of stealing his precious spot that he buries them (either when he is hanging out at the booking meetings or when he speaks to Vince) every chance he gets.

I'm glad RVD has brass balls big enough to go up to HHH and confront him, imagine HHH outweights RVD at least with 40lbs of muscle but he wasn't man enough to look at RVD in the eyes and tell him that he said those things to bury him, whatever happen to mr. tough guy? Is HHH afraid of getting his ass kicked by a smaller guy ? That's supposed to be the world heavyweight champ: a big punk pumped up with roids?

Vince and WWE could've made good money with RVD if he kept on pushing him the same way he was pushed in 2001, i'm not saying RVD would've been another Austin but he would've been upthere, now we'll never find out because it seems that his WWE career is going nowhere, maybe i'm wrong and he will get a real push soon, but whatever happens in the next few months i'll still cheer for RVD no matter what.

[Guest Choken One]

Foley went back because, at that point, it was *possible* for him to make as much money in the indies as it was in WCW. He had two children at that point and probably wouldn't have made that decision otherwise. He mentions in his book how hard it was to come to the decision to leave WCW. Foley also knew that if he established himself as a commodity on the independent scene that he could jump to the WWF or even return to WCW down the road with a big push. Foley said specifically in his book that while it would be difficult, he knew leaving WCW that he would be able to match his pay on the independent scene.

 

Wrestling is a passion, but it's also a business, and as Foley mentioned, he would have been worthless staying in WCW another year. Unless something drastic happens, RVD will not be worthless, simply because he's not the only one being misused. It's a company epidemic more than it is a reflection on RVD, and *everyone* knows that.

Yes bur Unlike Foley...RVD won't be able to make the figures he is in WWE right now...unless he wants move away from his family in Japan

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Raven is happy because he's making more money to work less dates while making his own shcedule.

 

I don't know how that wouldn't please anyone.

[Guest The Hamburglar]

Now about RVD, is true that back in ECW and in WWF 2001 he was a bit reckless but that's because he is used to the japanese style which is what really got him over

What japanese style would this be, then? Enlighten me.

[Guest Ripper]

How about Mr. Memory bust up this little "Rob is reckless" thing in m'yeah.

 

BEFORE his WWE stint, In ECW Rob Van Damn busted open Taz and Skull Von Krush hard way...Taz when the BOTH slipped doing a super plex and taz hit his chin on the top turnbuckle and Skull was a spin kick. 2...that was in how many years.

 

Then comes the WWE stint where Test, Jerhico, and Angle were busted open. Jerhico from him kicking a fucking ladder, Test from a vandaminator and the Angle ones were from 1. A straight kick from top rop, 2. doing the spin kick from the apron to the table and Kurt hit his chin on the edge of the table. These all occured in a 2 month period. 2 and half years later, he tries a frog splash on HHH, hits the top of the cage fucking the entire move up and came down on his throat. This new one came at a house show so I don't know.

 

Point is out of all that and the 6 guys that have been busted open in his 10 + years of wrestling, it is a little unfair to call the guy reckless...expecially when the only serious one was HHH. All the rest were cuts and scrapes and most of them weren't 100% his fault(Jerhico's and Test and Taz's and one of Angles)

 

6 guys getting cut in over 10 years is not being reckless people. Besides, if all you did was high knees and Pedigrees, how many people is there even a slight chance you might catch with a errant shot.

 

And unless Kurt Angle eats Cherry Blow-pops during his matches, he caught a punch from HHH in one of their matches in the Stephanie/Kurt/HHH triangle era.

 

This is a "sport" where you pretend to punch and kick each other in the face. Shit happens. Every single wrestler has accidently caught someone at some point in their career. And until Rob starts doing it on a nightly basis, calling him reckless is ridiculous.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Since he stopped doing the vandaminator in the WWE the only person who he has injured (and this is...you know...every single time) is HHH.

 

If RVD the statement that RVD is too wreckless is born out of the constant injuries of someone in as poor a physical condition as HHH then I find it funny. There's looking in shape and being in shape. HHH looks in shape...and has zero flexability making him more likely to break down than most.

 

But what do I know. I've been told RVD can't get pushed because he's too injury prone.

[Guest eirejmcmahon]

Raven is happy because he's making more money to work less dates while making his own shcedule.

I still don't believe that, to be honest.

 

Maybe there's more money to be made from touring in Japan but from working the Indy dates in the US ? I just can't see it, unless Raven had a really shitty contract when he was working for WWE.

 

Also, over time, I think the Indy money will dry up - sure, when you're hot out of the WWE you're a big star but after a year..two years...three years....

[Guest Loss4Words]

I believe it, only because AJ Styles turned down a WWE contract last year because he was making more money anyway.

[Guest AndrewTS]

bps21: Being injury prone and getting potatoed are a little different.

 

And Karen Angle complained on behalf of Kurt when RVD was too stiff during his "hot" period. RVD's used to being stiff, so sometimes he slips. Maybe it's on purpose now because it seems he only does it to HHH these days?

 

Possibly. I can't say I blame him if so.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

First of all that's about how many years Raven probably has left.

 

Secondly...I'm going to believe that he makes more because I heard it straight out of his own mouth...which is about the best source there is.

 

He was never on ppv at the end so there were no payoffs for those shows. HE was on Heat instead of RAW. The fact is Raven was eating the low end of his contract...which couldn't have been much to begin with since he's always said he wished he'd have waited to jump when Benoit and company did since they got a higher contract.

[Guest CanadianChick]

RVD has injured Triple H three times, starting at Armeggddon, right? Crushed throat, and two of those blood clot things. The first blood clot was caused by RVD hitting his elbow on Triple H's leg while Triple H was doing a high knee. Is that really his fault? The second clot was Rob's elbow hitting Triple H's leg during a ***** frog splash. I dunno, but those just seem like bad luck rather than recklessness to me.

 

Oh, and if Triple H thinks Rob kicks hard, hopefully he doesn't face Tajiri anytime soon.

[Guest TheGame2705]

Game, I never said HHH didn't have a legitimate reason to have a beef, because he obviously does, as many times as he has been injured. I was just trying to point out what was actually reported and I think we need to stop with the "smark darling" crap. Yes, there are a lot of sheep everywhere that just form opinions because everyone else has them and they don't know why they have them, but there are also some of us that just like who we like because it's who we like -- not because the Internet likes or dislikes them.

 

Also, Dave Meltzer does not work for the Torch.

 

Finally, I think with Kane, he needs to go over RVD and just brutalize him at Summerslam and again at the September PPV. Let him wrest the title from Goldberg at Survivor Series and go over any and every babyface they can find in convincing fashion. Finally, let RVD pin him and win the title, adjusting his offense based on things that did not work in previous matches. RVD has to bust out rarely used moves or brand new moves to get the job done and shows new character depth because he has to reach deeper than ever to slay the monster. We see a new, smart, effective side of RVD that learned from his previous mistakes and doesn't want fate to repeat itself. As champion, RVD's challengers would then tread lightly with him, because they know what he's capable of, to a point where he even surprised himself.

 

That's how you get Kane over as a monster and that's how you make his eventual demise more interesting. That's also how you take RVD to the next level.

You don't know what exactly happened though. For all we know they could have been joking around. Were you there? No. Then stop all this nonsense with "I'm just reporting what really happened".

 

As far as Meltzer not working for Torch, that shows you how much I follow those sites and if he works for 1wrestling then there's even less credibility.

 

And you can't deny the smark darlings. Sure some people like them just because but the fact remains that a lot of smarks may also like them too. What the problem is here is that I know you like one of the smark darlings greatly (as do others) and you just want to separate yourself from everyone else.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

"As far as Meltzer not working for Torch, that shows you how much I follow those sites and if he works for 1wrestling then there's even less credibility."

 

Jesus Christ.

 

Meltzer does not work for 1wrestling.

 

He writes the wrestling observer which he has published for years and is the most respected wrestling historian going today.

 

Just because your ignorant of who he is doesn't change the level of respect and credability that the man has gained over countless years of accurate and unbiased reporting.

[The Robfather 0]

Where did the speculation that RVD may leave the WWE come from? Is there any actual basis for it?

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

He has less than a year left on his contract...so some of us RVD lovers (Ok...just me) are counting the days and hoping he doesn't re-up with the company.

[Guest Loss4Words]

Game, have a can of alphabet soup on me. Maybe it'll make it easier for you to put words in my mouth. I said that was what was *reported*, not what really happened necessarily. As is the case with anything reported, be it on the Internet or on ESPN or even the major networks, it is subject to bias and human error. I was just trying to clarify what the Observer actually said.

 

And that's it. The Observer. Dave Meltzer writes for the Observer. He does not write for 1wrestling. He has been a wrestling journalist for 23 years and has a large number of subscribers in the industry.

 

As for the last part of your post, I am definitely trying to separate myself from the "OMG HHH IS HOLDING EVERYONE DOWN THEY SHOULD FIRE HIM BECUZ HE BANGS STEPH" crowd. I don't see what's wrong with that. But just because the general consensus is that Chris Benoit and Kurt Angle are good workers does not make them "smark darlings". I am not a smark. I don't like the word, it's not even a word. It means nothing to me. That's what I'm saying -- instead of trying to categorize ourselves and go on the Internet to bitch about how much we hate the Internet, we should just form our own opinions and keep it somewhat real. Hard to do when discussing wrestling, but not impossible. I don't hear people calling the Undertaker and Steve Austin "mark darlings" and I don't even see what separates "marks" and "smarks" at all quite honestly, except for knowing the inside jargon.

 

With people who constantly classify everyone under these labels, I see no better discussion. I see no greater understanding of wrestling. If it's there, show it, if it's not, shut the hell up, please.

 

And that's that.

[Guest humongous2002]

I agree with BPS, Vince has refused to give RVD a chance to become a main eventer, all bullshit aside it hasn't been his fault, we know it and even the marks know it, but like i said before the only person that could make you and break you in the WWE is Vince. So i rather see RVD in TNA than being jobbed out for no apparent reason in WWE , it's a shame that he wasn't allowed to be a main eventer and i hope that will bite the WWE in the ass someday, it reminds me what Verne Gagne did in the AWA with Hogan, because he thought Hogan wasn't championship material he kept on keeping him away from the world title belt,that was the first nail in the AWA's coffin.Maybe RVD is this generation's Hulk Hogan? He might end up in NWA TNA and take that federation to the next level?