Rvd unhappy with wwf?!

[Guest Shaved Bear]

HHH would get shot in Japan for his influence on the program.

 

I think a WWF tour of Japan is in order

[Guest jaCko]

I agree that this RVD is de-pushed stuff is a bunch of crock.

 

I don't know how you see things, but for me this first World title reign of anyone is the most special. With the main event so clogged, I think it's better to build up RVD as a long reigning IC champ and then move him up the card (ie Rock in 97-98) rather than blow your load on making him a main eventer right away.

 

Look at Austin in 1997. He was feuding with Bret Hart and the Undertaker in March-May and never even got any kind of pinfall/submission win over them. The best he got I think, was a DQ win over Bret Hart and THEN he was programmed with Owen Hart, lower on the card the former WWF champs 'Take and Bret. It has the same parallels of the de-push that Rob now has. Austin got injured and then he came back and was programmed with (then) heat sink Rocky Maivia.

 

My point is give it some time. I'm not saying RVD will reach Austin like levels, but his main event push will come.....waaay later on...

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

Uh, question.

 

If RVD is on a three-year contract, and he's been with the company for one year, why is this even an issue?  Within two years, he probably WILL be main event in 10 minute matches, possibly with a title reign under his belt, too.  I mean, he's got two years left before he would even have to think about resigning.  He's not exactly under the gun here.

[Guest Northern Lights Brainbuster]

I have just found a shocking similarity between the World title matches for the Rumble 01 and Rumble 02:

 

At the time before the Rumbles, the World title was on a fresh champion. The champions had no problems with good matches and were both over, but they were lacking something that the top man needs. Ah, a clean win over someone popular and high in the pecking order.

 

So, they were assigned a strongly over babyface to fight at the Rumble, with the notion being that a clean win over this popular babyface would stenghen the title reign and make them look like a genuine threat to a HHH or Rock or Undertaker or Austin. For 2001, Raw and SmackDown were pointing to a Angle v Jericho title match. For 2002, a Y2J/RVD match seemed obvious. The champions would have a clean win on PPV, and seem like more of a threat, while the challenger would be in the main event scene, even though theyre losing, they would still be mobing up in the world.

 

But wait: It didnt end like that, did it now?

 

In the months before Rumble 2001, a man by the name of Triple H had just taken an angle to get Rikishi over as a heel all for himself, even though he was busy being a babyface and burying people like Benoit and Angle at the time. Inexplicably, he had also been named as the #1 contender for Angles title, even though they were both heels and Angle was feuding with Jericho at the time.

 

In the months before Rumble 2002, famed megastar The Rock was losing his gleam after years of being the most popular babyface. He had started to do the right thing, by putting Jericho over several times as Y2J was on his way to becoming the World champion, and started to work on getting Test over as a genuine threat to babyfaces. Inexplicably, he had been booked as the #1 contender for Jerichos title, even though the feud between the two had been done to death in the three months that had passed, and Jericho was feuding with Rob Van Dam at the time.

 

Now, this wasnt all that changed:

 

Instead of scoring the clean win that was planned to rejuvenate their ailing title reigns, both Angle and Jericho were made to look incapable, both suffering a beating at the hands of HHH and Rock respectively. Sure, they won their matches, but Angle being handed the victory by Steve Austin and Jericho using every heel shortcut known to man within 2 minutes isnt exactly clean, is it?

 

Both reigns are now over, and will never be seen in the same glorious visions as the great reigns of people like.... HHH and The Rock!

 

Why, thats such a "co-incedence", you'd think they were doing it on purpose!

 

Hmmm.....

[Guest Northern Lights Brainbuster]

And Jacko, what you need to remember was that when this happened with RVD, Triple H and the entire nWo werent around, so it wasnt clogged.

 

Proof of this: Would Jericho have won the Undisputed title if the unification occured at WrestleMania?

[Guest Dangerous A]

Here is my take on all this.

 

Did RVD get de-pushed? Hell yeah. The man was involved in a mini-program with Jericho. I think that his first push from No Mercy til  Vengeance was shut down. This could've been Vince's way of "humbling" RVD. As you can see through out WWF history, McMahon does have a history of humbling people who's ego's he feels can get out of control.

 

I believe RVD can and will eventually adopt to the ME style of wrestling and at the same time retain his uniqueness. I've heard countless comparisons of Jericho being the next HBK, but I have always believed it was RVD that was more like the next HBK.

 

Just to clear up the HHH took the lead heel spot in the "who ran Austin over" story. The WWF originally wanted Foley in that position. He didnt want to hurt his book sales or his rep going heel, so HHH stepped up to do the deed. All the man did was take advantage of an oppurtunity. He'd be stupid not to. He was getting decent face heat, but was obviously 3rd rung on the ladder behind Rock and Austin (and arguably Taker) He saw an opening and went for it. In my opinion, it cemented his "game" persona because it made him look like no one was ever on to him.(which was true because everyone was onto either Rock or Foley)

[Guest Northern Lights Brainbuster]

Here's a crazy idea:

 

Why not just let Rikishi keep the blame?

 

You know, it was already set in stone that he was the driver, a mastermind wasnt needed.

[Guest teke184]

Rikishi was drowning in that role, so they brought in a mastermind in an attempt to salvage the year-long angle.  Unfortunately, it only got worse.

[Guest Northern Lights Brainbuster]

I think Raven should have been revealed as the guy who did it at Unforgiven. He needed something to come in on, and it aint as if the guy is a rookie in need of a tryout and time to pay his dues.

[Guest Downhome]

Best But Team Member.

 

Adding nothing to threads since 2002.

 

So...anyway...

 

here is the RVD story:  He was brought in as a part of the alliance.  The angle was tanking and yet people were going nuts for RVD.  So the WWF did the only logical thing it could do...pushed him.  RVD's push WAS far too early and too much...but the WWF used him to try and get the Alliance angle over.  It made for some good tv (the RVD/Austin stuff with the alliance) but the angle was pretty much DOA.

 

So the angle ends...and RVD still has the Hardcore strap...thus not having to leave (because the WWF knew that RVD was too popular and too important to have him miss TV)  Interestingly...he is the only new guy (WCW guys, Dreamer & RVD) who were brought in who DID NOT leave tv for any length of time.

 

RVD drops the HArdcore title to Taker...and this is where the question must have finally been asked.  WHat do we do with him now?  He was pushed to beat guys like Austin, Rock, Angle, Taker and Jericho...so...do we make him a main eventer...?

 

Well..he started a program with Jericho.  The crowd thought that Van Dam had won the belt to a HUGE pop...(think HHH winning at Mania then multiply it by 100).  Then Van Dam comes out on Smackdown with a change in character...he interrupts a Jericho promo and the announcers play up RVD's new "Focus" he is no longer the laid back RVD.

 

RVD goes to challenge JEricho and finds Storm instead...so he beats him.  The smackdown before January 7, Van Dam is in a tag match against Jericho...and the announcers play up the "unfinished business" between the 2.

 

BAM!

 

January 7.

 

RVD curtain jerks against Test.  He spends the next two months in pointless tag matches with Edge, and even more pointless 6 man tags with the Hardys.  But he is still over.  Not to mention the reports that RVD's pops are being edited.  (A quick note on that:  The first report that the pops were being edited came on the Smackdown after the Rumble.  It should be noted that on the Raw after the Rumble, RVD curtain jerked in a 6 man tag to a HUGE pop...and HHH interrupted a Jericho promo to FAR LESS..even though HHH had won the damn rumble...Sign #1 to the WWF that HHH probably should not win the title at Mania...but I digress)

 

Let's look at RVD's ppv track thus far:  vs. Jeff HArdy at Invasion (RVD is over about 5 seconds into the match(

 

vs. Hardy at Summerslam

 

vs. Jericho at Unforgiven  (by know RVD has been out popping Jericho, and the rest...and soon RVD chants would surface in his Raw match with the Rock)

 

vs. Austin & Angle at No Mercy (MAin Event)

 

Elimination match at Survivor Series (Main Event)

 

Vs. Taker at Vengeance (the biggest match on the card outside of the mini-tourney)

 

So what happens at the Rumble?  The first ppv after January 7?

 

RVD comes out to a huge pop.  And gets eliminated in 2 minutes...to the biggest heat of the night.  The guy was that over.

 

So what happened?  

 

A:  He was pushed too hard too fast as a result of his being the only thing over in the Alliance.

 

B:  He was de-pushed too hard too fast after making fans beleive this guy as a credible threat.

 

Then the RVD ship rights itself.  He beats Goldust at No Way Out...and wins the IC belt (the exact spot where I beleive he should be right now) at WrestleMania.

 

But does RVD have a right to be pissed off?

 

Perhaps.  He knows how over he is...he hears it every time he goes out there.  He also knows that with some TV time, a high profile feud, a push and some merchandise...he could be making a ton of money.

 

But he's not.  

 

And the thing about Jericho and the rumble...it certainly seemed that they were heading towards RVD vs. Jericho (hell...they had weeks of build on it...and then the Rock got a shot by beating Booker T in a #1 contenders match?) I understand that there is more backstory with the Rock...but...um...Jericho already beat him twice.  And the RVD feud was super hot...I don't know what Jericho gained by having beaten the same 2 people again (Rock and Austin) that he already beat to become the champ.  And as it stands...RVD won the first match of the feud...and there was no blow off.  I think that Jericho would have benefited greatly from beating someone new...

 

And BBTMS2002..."Some of you need to stop sucking down each other's man juices and get some different viewpoints."

 

What does that mean?  Only your viewpoints are valid?  What are your viewpoint?  You only reply to things to stray off topic and insult people.

Everything that everyone has been trying to say in one tight, smart, and smooth threat. Great post man, you summed it up pefectly.

[Guest Risk]

I agree that this RVD is de-pushed stuff is a bunch of crock.

 

No one agreed with that, you doush.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

Predicatably, the WWF pushed RVD too hard (which they shouldn't have done) and it's gone to his head. They should have just kept him midcard like they did with Jericho when he came in 1999 (who was way more over then than RVD is now). Rob is probably just mad he doesn't get 5 minutes during each match to pose for the crowd. And while everyone likes to talk about how Hogan's reaction is a "nostalgia pop" people conviniently omit the fact that RVD's pop is basically because it's easy for people in the crowd to point to themselves 3 times and say R-V-D.

[Guest]

I think 1Bob has his dates wrong and thinks today is April Fools Day.  I mean, why would RVD be angry if he's been pushed since the Invasion angle and is now the Intercontinental Champion.

[Guest papacita]

Look at Austin in 1997. He was feuding with Bret Hart and the Undertaker in March-May and never even got any kind of pinfall/submission win over them. The best he got I think, was a DQ win over Bret Hart and THEN he was programmed with Owen Hart, lower on the card the former WWF champs 'Take and Bret. It has the same parallels of the de-push that Rob now has. Austin got injured and then he came back and was programmed with (then) heat sink Rocky Maivia.

One difference between RVD and 97 Austin is that Austin always had a solid feud/program to work with someone. As of now, RVD doesn't have one.

 

And as far as the Who ran over Austin thing, I still say they should've gone with Jericho for that one. He could say he did it to save the WWF from the cancer that is Stone Cold Steve Austin, and give them a true Champion we could all be proud of. As a matter of fact...maybe he could even align himself with Stevie and RTC...um...on second thought, forget it.

[Guest]

BUTT is spelled with 2 "t's." For someone's who's always up RVD's BUTT you should know that. I must go, but I'll be back later. I didn't read any of your reply except your insult and the last paragraph, so you wasted 15 minutes.

[Guest Brian]

"One difference between RVD and 97 Austin is that Austin always had a solid feud/program to work with someone. As of now, RVD doesn't have one."

 

I'll say it again, but if RVD was apart of the awesome mid-card they had two years ago, then he wouldn't have had to suffer through the pushing and de-pushing, and the getting caught in the open without an opponent.

 

 

 

- Brian Matheson, waiting for Anglesault to mention Angle's now a member of the midcard

[Guest Sadyv]

I just hope that Brock Lesnar gets built up and then fed to HHH, and then Lesnar realizes what was done to him and snaps HHH in half in the ring, live on PPV.

 

That would be the greatest PPV ever. I'd order it twice.

[Guest jaCko]

Predicatably, the WWF pushed RVD too hard (which they shouldn't have done) and it's gone to his head. They should have just kept him midcard like they did with Jericho when he came in 1999 (who was way more over then than RVD is now). Rob is probably just mad he doesn't get 5 minutes during each match to pose for the crowd. And while everyone likes to talk about how Hogan's reaction is a "nostalgia pop" people conviniently omit the fact that RVD's pop is basically because it's easy for people in the crowd to point to themselves 3 times and say R-V-D.

 

Thanks for taking the words right out of my mouth. Like I said before, I'd rather see Rob being built up for a long time span, rather then being pushed to the top of the card, even though he hasn't been in the federation for a year. HBK, who RVD is often compared too, had several start stop pushes and in the end he got over at a time when the WWF needed a fresh main eventer and there were no real threats to his spot. I'm not saying the WWF doesn't need fresh main eventers, but I wouldn't want to see RVD win too much too fast.

 

Could you imagine if the WWF put the title on Mankind at Mind Games? That would have cheapened the magical Raw when he first won his title. Same goes for Austin at Wrestlemania XIV. A solid IC title push right now, is better than RVD being a main eventer in the long run.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

"HHH would get shot in Japan for his influence on the program. "

 

Oh right, cause in Japan active wrestlers NEVER get involved with the booking, no siree. Chono, Mutoh, Misawa, Lyger, Sasuke, Choshyu, none of these guys have any backstage power...

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

I'm really getting pretty damn tired of this damned argument. I may hate Triple H, but I really don't give a damn if he plays politics to keep his spot or if he offends all the RVD fans because of these"supposed" backstage powers he has. I agree with everybody who's been saying that the "HHH is holding people down" whining is bullshit. It's about time for this garbage to stop permeating the damned board every 3 topics and give it a fucking rest.

[Guest Dangerous A]

God Bless you Alwayspissedoff!!

 

I share your exact sentiments.

[Guest Anglesault]

- Brian Matheson, waiting for Anglesault to mention Angle's now a member of the midcard

That Edge feud is just TEARING up the Main event. Coming right after the Kane feud that SCINTILATED the crows 195 matches from the top at Mania.

[Guest justcoz]

At first I was kind of upset that RVD doesn't have too much to work with on the Raw lineup.  I personally was looking forward to RVD vs. Benoit, RVD vs. Edge and RVD vs. Lance Storm.  I like the idea that they are supposedly planning to feud Eddie Guerrerro against RVD for the IC title.  Eddie must go on Raw.  After feuding with Eddie, I would have RVD be subject to another surprise WWF return when Ken Shamrock comes in with Paul Heyman as his manager and takes out RVD on Raw.  From there, I don't know?  A program with Booker T would be entertaining but I'd rather see Booker as Raw's number three face behind RVD and Kane.  Jeff Hardy maybe?  Eventually Brock Lesnar?  Raven perhaps.  I guess there is more to work with than I originally thought.  RVD vs. X Pac may even have potential.  They do need to give him more time to work.  He is over enough and has enough of a different move set to maintain interest with a longer television match against a quality opponent.  I'd also like to see an angle where RVD convinces Ric Flair to allow his Intercontinental Title matches to be contested under 'Extreme Rules' where chairs, etc. can be used.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I'd like an RVD vs. Hall program

 

1.  I thikn that Hall is a good worker who has been trying hard and putting up a good effort

 

2.  That would mean that Hall is right where he belongs...the midcard.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

I'd also like to see an angle where RVD convinces Ric Flair to allow his Intercontinental Title matches to be contested under 'Extreme Rules' where chairs, etc. can be used.

 

Oh God no.  Leave that crap to the Hardcore division.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I agree with Rasmus...about an RVD post...

 

spooky.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

There MUST be and RVD VS. Eddy feud that would be SWANK

[Guest Brian]

Everything he worked for, leaving the nonsense behind, lost if he goes back to the props.

[Guest teke184]

God, NO hardcore matches on a regular basis for RVD.  He puts on a good match right now without that stuff, so it will be counter-productive to go hardcore with the IC title so that it becomes a game of "How will the challenger get the Van Daminator?"

[Guest justcoz]

Fair enough.  I see everyone's point about not wanting to see RVD go back to the garbage but did anyone ever stop to think that this may be one of the things that he's had trouble adapting to in the WWF and part of the reason for his unhappiness?  You may think that using chairs, etc. is 'garbage' but it was something that allowed him to be innovative with his moveset.  The WWF's version of hardcore wrestling needs to resemble ECW's a bit more and maybe perhaps Raven will be the guy to bring about those kind of matches.  Enough of the backstage brawling, aluminum garbage cans and fire extinguisher crap.  A big part of RVD's matches though was using chairs, whether it was jumping on them, over them or the Van Daminator.  Yeah, he is talented enough to get by without them but maybe he liked that and that's the reason he always felt that his shtick was best suited for ECW?  There is nothing wrong with allowing him to make use of this, maybe best as a feud closing gimmick match rather than all the time.  Would you guys be more accepting of that?

 

Minor detail but I think it would be in RVD's best interest and the WWF as far as merchandise sells to just say screw the PTC, stock holders, etc. and at least let him refer to himself as the Whole F'N Show?  My God, these guys have no edge anymore...