So who turns heel?

[Guest Youth N Asia]

Either Brock or Kurt have to turn heel soon. You just can't have the two top guys on the show be good guys. So who turns heel?

 

I think/hope they turn Brock. With his size it's bad to have him as a babyface cause his only real heel compitition is Big Show, Angle, or Taker. And I'm sick of Big Show in main events.

 

Now that Kurt's the champ there's a lot more guys that are realistic threats to him. You have Benoit, Guerrero, and Cena. So I say keep him face.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

I think it would be nice to run with them both as tweeners as a while, and let the fans decide who they want to boo. Otherwise you might get an "Eddie", with the heel getting face pops louder than the face...

[Guest Showstoppa Icon]

I think they should keep Kurt babyface for a while. At least untill WMXX so he can get his big WM main event win.

 

Brock works better as a heel, although this time he wont have Paul to help him out on the mic. But since its one or the other, turn Brock.

[Guest Fook_Hing_Ho]

Turn Brock. Heyman's coming back soon anyways, so it's a natural fit. Plus, with the whole neck injury, it's going to be tough to get the fans to boo Angle again.

 

Of course, if I had the book, I wouldn't turn either of them (at least not now), but for some reason the writers can't seem to book even a basic face vs face feud

[Guest Youth N Asia]

Plus they turned Angle right after winning the title last time...seemed like a cop out

[Guest MideonMark]

Lesnar has to turn heel, I HATE Smilin' Brock Lesnar. Heyman helps him win back the title at Summerslam. You then have Rhyno, Lesnar, TWGTT managed by Heyman in a great stable going up against Angle who aligns with Benoit. You have like 6 months worth of matches right there e.g.

 

Benoit vs Rhyno

Benoit vs Lesnar

Angle vs Rhyno

Angle vs Lesnar vs Benoit

Angle/Benoit vs TWGTT

Angle/Benoit vs Rhyno/Lesnar

 

Any one of those matches could be upper card-main event matches on PPVs for the next few months e.g. at No Mercy you could do Benoit vs Lesnar and Angle vs Rhyno and at Survivor Series you could do something like a traditional SS elimination match(throw in face Eddy and Cena or somebody to team with Angle/Benoit) or hell blow it off in a WarGames match(if theyre allowed to use the WarGames gimmick that is)

[Guest Youth N Asia]

Plus I wouldn't mind seeing Benoit and Angle team again

[Guest Goose749]

After the match at Vengeance, I think it is likely Brock will go heel. As long as he doesn't have Heyman as his manager, we may not have to put up with his smiling (He DEFINITELY had more goofy smiles as a heel) Though look forward to it every time he smacks Kurt down.

[Guest ndzen]

Either Brock or Kurt have to turn heel soon. You just can't have the two top guys on the show be good guys. So who turns heel?

oh really? and why is that exactly? because you've been programmed to believe so that's why.

 

pathetic. just think about it.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Brock = Money Heel. Why wouldn't you turn Brock Heel? He has monster written all over him. And I'm not talking about my face was charred and now I'm a crazy freak, monster. I'm talking about total badass heel.

[Guest Retro Rob]

Lesnar rules as a heel. He is a fucking monster, just hasn't been booked that way in most of 2003.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

SummerSlam Scenario

 

Rhyno vs Benoit- Benoit and Rhyno stiff the everloving shit out of each other in a 15 minute (that's what I think they'd get), no holds barred, no dq war. Benoit finally gets the win after making Rhyno tap to the crossface. After the match we see Rhyno grinning sadistically which leaves Benoit slightly miffed.

 

Angle vs Lesnar II- They go back and forth until (what else?) a ref bump takes out Mike Chioda. Angle Slam on Brock but no ref to count. Rhyno runs in and gores the fucking fuck out of Angle, but turns around to see Benoit running down the aisle to meet him. Before he can do so, though, he is cut of by Benjamin and Hass who give Benoit a superkick/german suplex combo on the rampway. Inside the ring, Brock is starting to stir and goes into "attack mode" when he sees TWGTT and Rhyno standing in front of him. Then, after weeks of hinting........Heyman comes out, laughing maniacally. He comes in the ring, hugs Rhyno and hugs TWGTT until he turns his stare on Lesnar. By then Angle is halfway to his feet. Brock then turns around and kick, wham, F5 to Angle. Heyman wakes up Chioda, 1-2-3, new champ. Beatdown commences as Benoit tries feebly to crawl into the ring to help Angle, but he takes an F5 for his troubles. Show ends w/ Brock, Rhyno, TWGTT and Heyman standing over the bodies of Benoit and Angle.

[Guest The Hamburglar]

Brock as a heel = good.

Needing Heyman to do it = bad.

No more fucking Heyman. He's no different from Vince or Steph as far as on-air characters go. After they took him away from Brock and paired him with Big Show he became deeply, deeply annoying. "BROCK LESNAR CANNOT (spittle spittle) BEAT (spittle) THE BIG SHOW." Over. And fucking over. Again and again. Fuck off Paul, and stay off the screen. For fuck's sake, between Summerslam and Wrestlemania the title was exclusively held by Heyman-managed wrestlers. I don't think even Vince ever managed to portray himself as that integral to a wrestler's success.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

Actually, Heyman is totally different. Brock can talk about how he lost the fire, the intensity he once had and only Heyman can bring it back. Brock isn't strong on the mic and it would help get Heyman over as a cult leader, which in turn would also help Rhyno and TWGTT. Heyman should be mostly doing the mic work for Rhyno, but when you need Brock to cut a money promo, let Heyman do it. At least he shows more then one level of emotion in his promos.

[Guest Goose749]

Heyman is good because he *makes* you hate him. It's really hard not to find him annoying on some level. I don't complain about Heyman as a manager, I bring him up to point out to those who hate Lesnar as a face for smiling that he actually smiled a lot more as a heel.

Heyman can definitely help add some flame to a career. He introduced Lesnar and Team Angle. If not for him, TWGTT and Lesnar would not be so popular right now.

The only guy Heyman can't help is Big Show. And why bother?

[Guest CanadianChick]

Whether with or without Heyman, Lesner should definatly turn heel. I, as a lot of people apparently, am sick of smilin' Brock. It doesn't fit him. And I do like Lord of the Curry's senerio very much.

[Guest ndzen]

and yet still, no one in this post wants to realize how absolutely stupid the entire concept of faces and heels are, or why you all believe that the 2 top guys have to be face vs. heel.

[Guest MideonMark]

The fact is Lesnar and Rhyno(and to a lesser extent TWGTT, although theyre both pretty good on the mic) need someone to talk for them and Heyman is the perfect candidate, because he has history with both. He could be the one to fire up Lesnar into turning from Smiley, Happy Lesnar into unstoppable monster Lesnar. You could also bring up how Heyman made Rhyno the monster he was in ECW and Rhyno needed Heyman to motivate him into returning to that character.

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

and yet still, no one in this post wants to realize how absolutely stupid the entire concept of faces and heels are, or why you all believe that the 2 top guys have to be face vs. heel.

Wrestling 101: Fans wanna cheer the good guy against the bad guy. If you've face vs face, the crowd is gona be mixed and you wont get the emotion you would with a flat out face vs heel match-up

 

The top two don't have to be opposing each other, but they are building up Lesnar vs Angle, so sooner or later one of them is gonna have to tuen heel.

[Guest CanadianChick]

and yet still, no one in this post wants to realize how absolutely stupid the entire concept of faces and heels are, or why you all believe that the 2 top guys have to be face vs. heel.

It's not that they have to be heel/face, because they can do face/face (which was evident last month). But Brock is better as a heel. That is all, end of story.

[Guest ndzen]

why dont you think for yourself.

all this wrestling 101 nonsense is brainwashing.

think about it: football rakes in lots more money than wrestling and there aren't any heels or faces.

hmmm.

 

if its face vs face the fans get to CHOOSE. that means they arent being told what to do. its an amazing concept. a person choosing who to root for based on personal preferences.

hmmm.

[Guest Goose749]

and yet still, no one in this post wants to realize how absolutely stupid the entire concept of faces and heels are, or why you all believe that the 2 top guys have to be face vs. heel.

actually, faces and heels are very important. They are the basis for storylines that keep viewers watching. The fact that the WWE often fucks this up doesn't mean that the concept is stupid. The reason you shouldn't have face vs. face is that then you would have a thoroughly uninteresting rivalry. I mean, who wants to watch two guys who get along fight for the title? This concept is not limited to the wrestling world, but throughout all sports. Bostonians make sure to tune into or buy tix for games against the Yanks, because we hate them. Thus, in our minds, they are the heels in this struggle for league domination. Such is even evident in sport movies. Imagine what kind of movie Rocky would have been if Apollo Creed had treated Rocky like a best friend, and this was the Academy selected Best Picture of 1976. It is popular because it is interesting. It is possible to do a rivalry between two heels, but then the crowd would most likely not respond, because they wouldn't want either side to win. Every interesting story has a hero and an enemy of some sort.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

Either Brock or Kurt have to turn heel soon. You just can't have the two top guys on the show be good guys. So who turns heel?

oh really? and why is that exactly? because you've been programmed to believe so that's why.

Because they've proven they can't book a feud like that for shit. I'm not saying it couldn't be done. but I'm saying they won't do a good job...much like they're not doing a good job with it now

[Guest CanadianChick]

why dont you think for yourself.

all this wrestling 101 nonsense is brainwashing.

think about it: football rakes in lots more money than wrestling and there aren't any heels or faces.

hmmm.

 

if its face vs face the fans get to CHOOSE. that means they arent being told what to do. its an amazing concept. a person choosing who to root for based on personal preferences.

hmmm.

So you're saying that no one should be a face or heel? And the football comparison is pretty weak. And if you want to get picky, you could say the home team is the face, and the away team is the heel. WWE is more comparible to entertainment, though. In a good TV show, you have the main protanganist (or a 'face', who's usually the main character) and you have an antangonist (or a 'heel', who can change from show to show, but you get my drift).

[Guest ndzen]

i disagree.

you see, the entire concept of faces vs heels is flawed. when a person in real life doesnt have something go their way, do they automatically turn schizophrenic and change personalities?

 

why isnt heel vs heel and face vs face an interesting match? with heels, its anything goes. youre telling me that a cena vs matt hardy feud wouldnt be great? or a hurricane vs booker t match?

 

the concept of face vs heel is only important because you mistakenly think it is. its like believing that eating meat products is healthy and neccessary.

 

not everything needs a hero or a villain. all a story really needs is CONFLICT. this absolutely dows not equate to good vs. evil. (2 other concepts that are based solely on opinion and have no real concrete meaning)

 

about brock being better as a heel. i'd argue that he's better as an agressor. but not neccessarily a heel. real people based on real personalities are always better than fake characters with little depth.

imagine how interesting hhh would be if he acted more like paul levesque, the guy we see in talk show interviews. that goes for big show too. the growling sadist makes no sense because he's not one in real life, therefore his portrayal of one is flat and unbelievable.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

The fact is Lesnar and Rhyno(and to a lesser extent TWGTT, although theyre both pretty good on the mic) need someone to talk for them and Heyman is the perfect candidate, because he has history with both. He could be the one to fire up Lesnar into turning from Smiley, Happy Lesnar into unstoppable monster Lesnar. You could also bring up how Heyman made Rhyno the monster he was in ECW and Rhyno needed Heyman to motivate him into returning to that character.

Exactly. Heyman can talk about how he sees in Rhyno the same stuff he saw in Benoit back when he brought Benoit into ECW in 94.

 

And as for this "let the fans decide who to cheer" shit.....come on. 90% of WWE fans are fucking morons who wouldn't know who to cheer for.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

I'm not saying you can't have good face/face or heel/heel feuds. But I don't think the current WWE writers can pull it off right. The product has been in the shitter for about 2 years now with few exceptions.

 

And they never let the fans decide who turns. When Angle beat Big Show for his last title he was over big as a face, and then they turned him.

[Guest Goose749]

ah, but this conflict must be between two opposing forces. As the interested viewer, you are likely to side with one of these forces, which makes that one "face". The other one is "heel". Plus, our belief in the importance of face and heel is not placed mistakenly. It is proof based upon good wrestling feuds of the past, and stories throughout human history. And, by the way, as the son of a doctor, I can tell you that eating some meat products are healthy and necessary. They provide protein, plus raw materials needed to construct such essentials as blood cells and bone marrow.

[Guest ndzen]

about ppl not knowing who to cheer for:

you can equate that to anything then. i understand that human beings on a whole are basically pieces of molecular excrement, but they can still make choices. but those choices have to be presented to them to make.

if all they are given to choose from is heel or face, then of course more than likely they will choose face.

but what about the austin popularity or the benoit standing O at the rumble?

those were REAL dramatic moments. and it can happen all the time, but not with vince and his current 'writing' staff at the helm. with that i do agree.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

Well, unless you have some kind of plan designed to kill off Vince and Co. (which I'm all for) we're up shit creek without a paddle.