Shane McMahon on TV is a Bad Thing.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

The best way to book this is to have Shane get hammered. Wether they will or not is another story.

Why waste that on a PPV though? Why just put a squash on a Raw, then a competitive match on a PPV?

Fine with me. As I said, I don't really care. Maybe they will, maybe the WWE think this will draw better on PPV, maybe they have some eleborate and interesting storyline that is gonna be the best thing ever, maybe Shane has developed into a superworker, maybe RVD is a prick who nobody likes, maybe he is being punished, maybe RVD is gonna have a different/better match or maybe Daddy just wants his boy on PPV.

 

My question: Who really cares? the match is gonna suck either way.

[Guest Anglesault]

As for Shane- Kane will crush him and then move on to RVD. Hell, maybe they can stall the inevitable match untill SurSer or WMXX

Who does this help?

[Guest CanadianChick]

Kane.

[Guest Anglesault]

Kane.

Shane will get offense it. It won't help him.

[ChrisMWaters 0]

Have to do this...

 

<joke>Shane can believably take out Kane! Remember, Shane's an undefeated European Champion AND former Hardcore Champion!</joke>

[Adam 0]

I have always liked Shane McMahon, but I don't exactly know why. Its logical to have him defend his mothers honor, as he has done it every other time. I like your idea though AS. As long as RVD is not hurt anymore than he already is, I'm happy.

[Guest Shanghai Kid]

You guys act like Kane/RVD is a match that all the fans are begging to see. Newsflash, people have stopped caring about RVD. I honestly think that if he never appeared on Raw again, nobody would care save for the 3 fans in the crowd with an RVD sign. RVD's been squashed and made to look insignificant to a point where he's not a hugely over face. He's not a significant opponent for any big time heels, do you remember any memorable feuds with RVD? That's because he hasn't had any. He's just randomly booked most weeks, his character has never had any direction. His bread and butter was that heelish cocky attitude that got him over in ECW, and they took that away. He's now a stale, unimportant, could be jobbing on Heat for all the fans care wrestler. Even when he's booked serious, nobody can take him serious because of his laid back attitude. His lack of intensity will keep him from ever being a major draw. Shane has more charisma and sadly is more of a draw. So the WWE is going with what will make them more money.

 

It's just a good coincidence that storyline actually makes sense. Kane tried to kill Shane's mother and here he is. Shane only really comes back when he's avenging his family.

[Guest CanadianChick]

Kane.

Shane will get offense it. It won't help him.

But the senerio said that Kane would kill Shane.

[Guest CanadianChick]

You guys act like Kane/RVD is a match that all the fans are begging to see. Newsflash, people have stopped caring about RVD. I honestly think that if he never appeared on Raw again, nobody would care save for the 3 fans in the crowd with an RVD sign. RVD's been squashed and made to look insignificant to a point where he's not a hugely over face. He's not a significant opponent for any big time heels, do you remember any memorable feuds with RVD? That's because he hasn't had any. He's just randomly booked most weeks, his character has never had any direction. His bread and butter was that heelish cocky attitude that got him over in ECW, and they took that away. He's now a stale, unimportant, could be jobbing on Heat for all the fans care wrestler. Even when he's booked serious, nobody can take him serious because of his laid back attitude. His lack of intensity will keep him from ever being a major draw. Shane has more charisma and sadly is more of a draw. So the WWE is going with what will make them more money.

 

It's just a good coincidence that storyline actually makes sense. Kane tried to kill Shane's mother and here he is. Shane only really comes back when he's avenging his family.

The crowd still likes RVD. I don't know where you got that they don't like him. They still cheer, they still react. That is more than I can say for practically all the main event faces, the exceptions being Micheals and Goldberg. Just because you have stopped caring about RVD, doesn't mean the fan base in general has.

[Adam 0]

RVD gets bigger pops than everyone, and I think even Michaels.

[NYU 0]

You guys act like Kane/RVD is a match that all the fans are begging to see. Newsflash, people have stopped caring about RVD. I honestly think that if he never appeared on Raw again, nobody would care save for the 3 fans in the crowd with an RVD sign. RVD's been squashed and made to look insignificant to a point where he's not a hugely over face. He's not a significant opponent for any big time heels, do you remember any memorable feuds with RVD? That's because he hasn't had any. He's just randomly booked most weeks, his character has never had any direction. His bread and butter was that heelish cocky attitude that got him over in ECW, and they took that away. He's now a stale, unimportant, could be jobbing on Heat for all the fans care wrestler. Even when he's booked serious, nobody can take him serious because of his laid back attitude. His lack of intensity will keep him from ever being a major draw. Shane has more charisma and sadly is more of a draw. So the WWE is going with what will make them more money.

 

It's just a good coincidence that storyline actually makes sense. Kane tried to kill Shane's mother and here he is. Shane only really comes back when he's avenging his family.

Yeah, this is pretty ridiculous. But hell, if you had your fingers in your ears and your eyes shut every time RVD came out, then you wouldn't hear all the RVD chants or see all the fans pointing to themselves.

 

RVD is over. RVD is over despite months of squashing. The fans still want to see RVD in a big angle, and get a shot at the title, even in the face of all the squashing. He's never been given the chance to carry a PPV with a money match (I can't count Unforgiven. The HHH match got 2 weeks of buildup compared with like 4 weeks for Taker/Brock) How WWE couldn't give RVD the chance to carry the ball when so many fans still love him, I have no idea.

 

See...just because he's stale and unimportant to YOU doesn't mean he's that way to everyone....or even most people. I still find RVD great and if given a good storyline, a good opponent, and enough match time, he would be able to prove himself again.

 

-And, by the way, Shane McMahon's a draw ? Excuse me, but show me all the extra PPV buy-rates Shane has drawn. Show me all the signs people have had in the audience the past year, calling for Shane McMahon. Shane McMahon isn't a fucking draw, at all.

 

Matt, I thought the article was excellent and really captured some of my thoughts on the whole Shane/Kane thing. Make it a Raw match. Hype Kane/RVD for the PPV.

[Guest Aero]

I'd have Shane challenge Kane to a street fight, or something, next week on RAW. The match happens, and Shane tries to assault Kane like he did the other night. Kane just tosses him around. Shane grabs a chair, but Kane no-sells it and chokeslams him through the commentary table. Kane wins, and he beats on him after the match. He signals for a Tombstone on a chair, but RVD makes his return and saves. RVD tries all of his offense, but Kane, again, no-sells most of it. Kane goes after him, but RVD heads outside and grabs a chair and uses the outside environment to his advantage, RVD-style. The show goes off the air as they fight through the crowd.

 

Next week, RVD challenges Kane to the match that never happened weeks ago, for Summerslam. Steve Austin is there to make it official, but Kane says that he wants a cage match so that RVD can't run away this time.

[Guest nWoScorpion]

Shane = Better than RVD.

 

Ok, that's a lie, but RVD needs to turn heel, or SOMETHING to brush off being stale.

 

Every week, RVD acts like a stoner, does a few flippy floppy moves, some "good" punches, and jobs to elbow drops.

 

If I wanted to watch repetitive wrestling, i'll watch Sunday Night Heat, because its the same damn thing every week.

 

For RVD to have me start "caring" again is to try and change from the weak spotfest offense into actual wrestling. YOu can't win matches doing Springboard Elbows and rolling thunders, which in real life, wouldn't even HURT to begin with unless a fat ass 500 pounder splashed you.

 

I'm not defending Shane, but at least when he's off TV, he's OFF! He doesn't show up in a head storyline every two months, hell, he hasn't had ANY STORYLINE since the Invasion ended. (Sure, he's had 2 cameo appearences for 30 seconds each, but that doesn't count)

 

How can Kane look good against Shane? No sell him like he did on RAW. I guess everyone forgot Kane basically shrugged the chair shots off and laughed at Shane at the end of RAW, selling not a thing.

[Guest CanadianChick]

Shane = Better than RVD.

 

Ok, that's a lie, but RVD needs to turn heel, or SOMETHING to brush off being stale.

 

Every week, RVD acts like a stoner, does a few flippy floppy moves, some "good" punches, and jobs to elbow drops.

 

If I wanted to watch repetitive wrestling, i'll watch Sunday Night Heat, because its the same damn thing every week.

 

For RVD to have me start "caring" again is to try and change from the weak spotfest offense into actual wrestling. YOu can't win matches doing Springboard Elbows and rolling thunders, which in real life, wouldn't even HURT to begin with unless a fat ass 500 pounder splashed you.

 

I'm not defending Shane, but at least when he's off TV, he's OFF! He doesn't show up in a head storyline every two months, hell, he hasn't had ANY STORYLINE since the Invasion ended. (Sure, he's had 2 cameo appearences for 30 seconds each, but that doesn't count)

 

How can Kane look good against Shane? No sell him like he did on RAW. I guess everyone forgot Kane basically shrugged the chair shots off and laughed at Shane at the end of RAW, selling not a thing.

Well, if RVD should change his offence because it isn't realistic, then the whole cruiserweight division has to change their offence. And if RVD is stale, then the whole Raw roster, save for a couple notable exceptions, is stale.

[Guest nWoScorpion]

WWE Cruiserweights now are wrestling more and more like heavyweights, with the exception of Ultimo Dragon, hence his lack of push.

 

I can buy RVD beating someone 160 pounds with his moves, but not 250-260 pound roided monsters (HHH) and big guys like Kane, Undertaker, and Big Show (i know the last 2 are on SD, but it's just a point).

[Guest CanadianChick]

WWE Cruiserweights now are wrestling more and more like heavyweights, with the exception of Ultimo Dragon, hence his lack of push.

 

I can buy RVD beating someone 160 pounds with his moves, but not 250-260 pound roided monsters (HHH) and big guys like Kane, Undertaker, and Big Show (i know the last 2 are on SD, but it's just a point).

Oh yes, you're right. Rey Mysterio wrestles like such a heavy wieght. Wait a minute, NO HE DOESN'T!

 

And RVD doing his offence is a whole of a lot more realistic than if he was doing power wresling since there is no logical way Rob can out power anyone like Triple H.

[Guest nWoScorpion]

Ok, heres the simple one liner. RVD is too small to be a threatening enough HW, and is too big for CW, so he's stuck in the middle, fucking him over already.

 

Last I checked the "CWs" Jamie Knoble, Billy Kidman, Matt Hardy, Shannon Moore have been doing more non-high risk manuevers than they use to.

 

Kidmans big move is the SSP, and he does a hurricanrana, outside of those he does HW Moves. Knoble does nothing but HW moves now, Hardy is barely able to be titled a CW, and Moore finally pulled off a somersault plancha on Vengeance, but outside of that, not much.

[Guest CanadianChick]

Ok, heres the simple one liner. RVD is too small to be a threatening enough HW, and is too big for CW, so he's stuck in the middle, fucking him over already.

Don't give me that 'too small to be a heavyweight' bullshit. If RVD is too small to be a heavyweight, Jericho, Eddie, Angle, Benoit (hey, they're all shorter than Rob) can't be heavyweights. The only heavyweights are all monsters and roided guys. Those are the only people to hold the big one. Good logic there, buddy.

[Guest nWoScorpion]

Angle? SMALL?! He's 6'1 240 pounds, and has a REAL move list.

 

When was the alst time Eddie, Benoit, and Jericho have held the World Title without being made jackass' of?

[Guest NoCalMike]

The "RVD is Stale" argument is lame. Everyone keeps the same style. I agree that RVD-WWE style is not as good as it was in ECW, cause it is a slower paced style that doesn't work the same way, but that isn't really his fault.

[Guest CanadianChick]

Angle? SMALL?! He's 6'1 240 pounds, and has a REAL move list.

 

When was the alst time Eddie, Benoit, and Jericho have held the World Title without being made jackass' of?

But he's small compared to the Big Show and Lesner, his main competition. How can he logically use his moves on Big Show, who is so much bigger than him?

 

And they haven't. But using your logic, they CAN'T be strong heavyweights because they are too small.

[Guest nWoScorpion]

Angle's mvoes = realistic. He does mat wrestling, by working bigger guys down by attacking their leg (hence his finisher is the ANKLE LOCK. not a somsersault splash.) Angle can do his angle Slam on everyone, which he's proven to do, and he is the greatest wrestler in WWE today besides Benoit.

[Guest CanadianChick]

Angle's mvoes = realistic. He does mat wrestling, by working bigger guys down by attacking their leg (hence his finisher is the ANKLE LOCK. not a somsersault splash.) Angle can do his angle Slam on everyone, which he's proven to do, and he is the greatest wrestler in WWE today besides Benoit.

But do you really think, logically, that Angle could lift Big Show for an Angle Slam. And again, RVD's base moveset (fast-pace, quick strikes, kicks, ect.) IS realistic versus bigger guys. If he can't out power him, of course he'll use his air attack and quickness. And, don't you think a full grown man coming splashing on you from a high height would hurt? It is realistic, just not a typical moveset. The flips, I admit, are not. But the kicks and the quick attacks are.

[Guest Askewniverse]

How can you say that RVD is small but Angle isn't? RVD's 6'0, and around 230 lbs. He's just about the same size as Angle.

 

I can buy RVD beating someone 160 pounds with his moves, but not 250-260 pound roided monsters (HHH) and big guys like Kane, Undertaker, and Big Show (i know the last 2 are on SD, but it's just a point).

 

What's wrong with RVD's moves against bigger opponents?

 

Also, I have to disagree with you about RVD being "too small" to be a threat to the world title. Bret Hart is about the same size as RVD, and he was always considered a threat to the title.

Edited July 31, 2003 by Askewniverse

[Guest nWoScorpion]

The only way I can argue RVD's frog splash is has it ever beaten Big Show? I mean, his emence fat-ness may prove to be too strong for RVDs weight to hurt bad enough to pin him. *that was a joke*

 

I give up trying to prove how bad RVD is, since it never works on anyone except people who are brain-washed by others.

 

Ex. Last Week: I like Zach Gowen! YAY!

This Week: Zach Gowen sucks! BOO!

[Guest nWoScorpion]

How can you say that RVD is small but Angle isn't? RVD's 6'0, and around 230 lbs. He's just around the same size as Angle.

 

I can buy RVD beating someone 160 pounds with his moves, but not 250-260 pound roided monsters (HHH) and big guys like Kane, Undertaker, and Big Show (i know the last 2 are on SD, but it's just a point).

 

What's wrong with RVD's moves against bigger opponents?

 

Also, I have to disagree with you about RVD being "too small" to be a threat to the world title. Bret Hart is about the same size as RVD, and he was always considered a threat to the title.

But Bret WORKED HIS OPPONENTS LIMBS! His main moves were submissions and the Quote unquote Five Moves of Doom.

 

Working on Someones leg to prevent them from being able to stand is a lot more realistic then jumping off a rope kicking someone in the shoulder, and having them sell it like they are dead.

 

Doesn't anyone remember Bret's matches vs. Diesel (nash)? He worked the legs because he knew that he was no match in a "Slugfest".

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

Angle's mvoes = realistic. He does mat wrestling, by working bigger guys down by attacking their leg (hence his finisher is the ANKLE LOCK. not a somsersault splash.) Angle can do his angle Slam on everyone, which he's proven to do, and he is the greatest wrestler in WWE today besides Benoit.

Somebody please give me an example of Angle using "mat wrestling".

 

BTW, hiplocks/tosses, armdrags and snapmares are NOT mat wrestling.

 

BTW #2- Eddy smokes Angle.

[Guest Askewniverse]

The only way I can argue RVD's frog splash is has it ever beaten Big Show? I mean, his emence fat-ness may prove to be too strong for RVDs weight to hurt bad enough to pin him. *that was a joke*

RVD has beaten Show with the five star frog splash. RVD has also pinned The Undertaker with it.

 

EDIT: corrected a mistake. RVD pinned Show with the frog splash on Raw (10/22/01).

Edited July 31, 2003 by Askewniverse

[Guest nWoScorpion]

WE WANT ANGLESAULT TO DEFEND ANGLES HONOR!

 

WHA?! RVD pinned UT? Was it clean? Or did someone do a run-in to cause UT to get his ass kicked majorly.

[Guest CanadianChick]

The only way I can argue RVD's frog splash is has it ever beaten Big Show? I mean, his emence fat-ness may prove to be too strong for RVDs weight to hurt bad enough to pin him. *that was a joke*

 

I give up trying to prove how bad RVD is, since it never works on anyone except people who are brain-washed by others.

 

Ex. Last Week: I like Zach Gowen! YAY!

This Week: Zach Gowen sucks! BOO!

You haven't even disproven my points, really. You say RVD's hit-and-run moves aren't realistics, but Angle outpowering someone like Big Show is. That isn't even realistic, at all. And just because I don't agree with your poorly argued points does not mean I'm brainwashed. In case you haven't noticed, not that many people really like RVD. I would say you are more brainwashed in blindly defending Angle.