So what's gonna be the next big wwe concept idea?

[Guest PhantMan]

A quick review of recent "big concepts".

 

- the wcw/ecw Invasion. doomed the day a wwf wrestler won a wcw title. doomed the day the mcmahons became wcw/ecw owners. doomed the day the group was renamed the generic Alliance. you can't build a rival on Hugh Morrus, Mike Awesome and the new breed of vanilla midgets.

 

- the nwo. Hall is a drunk. nash an attention bitch and you could see hogan accepted to be in this clusterfuck just to go straight on another red & yellow nostalgia tour. the nwo's main catalyst during the monday night war was that you just expected a big star every week. when there's a monopoly what's so attractive about it? ok, aside from those 2/3 ecw marks waiting for sabu or sandman to join...

 

- Jericho as champ. he flopped. period. the guy is too busy trying not to blow spot after spot against stiffs like rhyno to concentrate on being a credible champ. too bad since he had that ric flair "lucky bastard that always comes on top no matter what" feel to him.

 

- Scott Steiner. they should have booked him to rape steph/beat up some vetaran like jimmy snuka and try to kill triple h. you can't have politically correct steiner and get away with it.

 

- the split. some like it. some don't. I don't for the simple fact that's the same fucking brand after all. it's not like I'm waiting for hhh to go on smackdown but that may be subjective.

 

- austin returns. just to job to the guy who's gonna leave anyway to go act in No Holds Barred 2.

 

- goldberg. the streak is over. get it? it was the only thing exciting about BurgBerg, get it? the guy has no skill, he's not a good hand, he finished off bret hart's career and is a generic bitch outside the ring. how can I support a guy that expect to be champ and not have a serious house show schedule? there's a reason they invented the tv belt after all...

 

possible big concepts.

 

- sting. I don't expect the guy to even halfass it at this point. he had no desire back in '99. why should he have changed by now? the crow gimmick is too old. the old surfer gimmick is fine if twisted a little bit to get it to the year 2003. big money matches with michales and angle but that's it. the peple don't pop for goldie, why should they pop for Borden?

 

- a new invasion. ecw is dead. wcw? no one remembers it anymore. it's not like there's still a fanbase chanting wcw at indy shows.

 

- vince russo as an on air character. just to piss off GI Br... er, booker t.

 

- macho man/hulk hogan/roddy piper/veteran stars - to quote Bruce Mitchell "it's not like people don't like these guys. they're just not willing to pay to watch their old asses anymore".

 

scott hall returns - he deserves another chance after all... doesn't he? ok, maybe he doesn't, but it'd be interesting to see him get drunk at house shows and puke all over himself just for kicks, right?

 

the undertaker back as the dead man - so he can fly again at the royal rumble.

 

... maybe THE ULTIMATE WARRIOR, uh???

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Jericho as champ. he flopped. period. the guy is too busy trying not to blow spot after spot against stiffs like rhyno to concentrate on being a credible champ. too bad since he had that ric flair "lucky bastard that always comes on top no matter what" feel to him.

 

 

sting

 

Sting can actually wrestle and was more over with the Sting knockoff than he ever did as blondie. However, he's getting old and being a bible thumper (if he's really serious) won't allow him to come since he "doesn't approve of the product."

 

The Undertaker

 

I never liked him as a biker. He doesn't even deserve to be called the Undertaker anymore. Might as well call him Mark.

 

My guess is McMahon will become even more desperate and will come up with ridiculous angles similar to on an episode of Jerry Springer.

 

Best solution: Get rid of all the guys we DON'T care about so the guys we DO care about can actually get somewhere.

[Guest Choken One]

I wouldn't be shocked if they re-hash the InVasion with Raw Vs Smackdown

[Lil' Bitch 0]

^ I wouldn't be surprised one bit.

 

*is expecting the Bischoff / Steph McMahon feud to heat up and to take off on a full blown scale come Survivor Series

[Guest PhantMan]

the guys we care about can go in the ring but can't talk the talk, as flair would say. angle is the only one that has the total package.

 

edge - over as comedy act. sloppy as a serious character.

 

kidman - flea market champ. his only skills, aside from getting the STP right once every 10 times, is getting married to women that will get him laid and get him jobs for the rest of his life. don't be offended. hogan was right after all in not wanting to job to billy.

 

jericho - he flopped. case closed.

 

benoit - so good in he ring... so bad on the mic. too bad b/c he can't even play the "young lion" gimmick since he's close to 40.

 

guerrero - ok guy. can talk. can wrestle.

 

rvd - stiff bitch. overrated. ecw icon and not much else. pit him in the ring with sabu and it's ok. pit him in the ring with hhh or some big money player and watch him lose credibility since he cannot execute his main spots.

 

angle - the only guy that is the total package. the shawn michales/ric flair of his era. too bad his 4th title reign seems like the first. he was so poorly promoted as a champ back in the day that it really doesn't seem like he's a multi time champ.

 

booker t - was invest time in pushing him if last time he just got booked to look like a pussy? either give him the belt in an upset win or leave it at that.

 

Gowen - he's being pushed as the "poor one legged wonder with a dream". it's in poor taste and he's not getting the belt anyway. not when he can't even beat vince fucking mcmahon.

[Guest Choken One]

we don't care about Gowan OR Kidman.

 

replace those spots with

 

Mysterio and Matt.

 

Matt I would say is very verstalie as a Heel...and Rey Rey is Fucking Rey Rey

[Lil' Bitch 0]

he was so poorly promoted as a champ

 

Chris Jericho is pretty much a total package. The above statement is what I think about him.

[Guest JaKyL25]

I wouldn't be shocked if they re-hash the InVasion with Raw Vs Smackdown

Dude, then they'd be stealing booking ideas from SmackDown: Shut Your Mouth.

 

Don't get me wrong, I can see it too, but that's just SAD.

[Guest eiker_ir]

i think Jericho is the toal package too and i think he deservers another run with the belt, but it needs to be booked better, not like last time plz.

[Guest justcoz]

The entire product needs revamped by January. To quote Lance Storm the product needs to become... "serious for a moment."

 

Goodbye on air McMahons. Goodbye backstage skits. There can still be angle development backstage but no more skits where people are talking to each other as if they don't know a camera is present. Goodbye 20 minute in ring promos. Goodbye GM's. Goodbye anything inspired by 1998.

 

Goodbye JR and King. Jerry can stay on with some sort of King's Court interview segment or something but he adds nothing to the product currently and won't when it comes to the direction it needs to go in. Raw needs totally overhauled. JR can stay on but give anyone from DDP, Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Dusty Rhodes or evil Tony Schiavone on color.

 

They need to put some element of believability back into the product. Yes, we all know it's "fake" but people are willing to suspend belief and believe if the storytelling is convincing enough. I often felt that Vince Russo was part right. He was wrong for believing that you can pretty much expose the business without consequences but he was right with the belief that "shoot" type scenarios - angles drawn from real life situations (bret/Hbk, Jericho idolizing HBK, HBK/Flair) are angles made believable because they were inspired by reality. For instance, Jericho vs. Goldberg could have been classic if they would have added in the real life backstage fight to the story.

 

Kill Confidential and instead air the Confidential like features like they've done for Brock, Zach Gowen, Kurt Angle, Ric Flair's plane crash, etc. onto Raw and Smackdown. These stories often do not break kayfabe but rather add dimensions to the personas these guy's carry with them. There is no reason for these excellent pieces to be limited to a small audience on Saturday night when they can do so much to get people behind characters. Even the nostalgic themed pieces could do things to make championships feel important (the Confidential World Title piece and IC title piece).

 

The shows return to presenting a "card" of wrestling macthes. Three or four competetive matches and maybe two squashes. The mic work is either in the arena with an interviewer ala Gene Okerlund style or brief in ring promos during ring introductions like ECW. Confidential pieces and WWE music video productions to hype the matches we are about to see fill the rest of the time.

 

The formula is bringing an old school style to a new generation and modernizing it. Matches with slower builds, more psychology which tell a story that the creative team can't (see Benoit vs. matt Hardy on smackdown). Feuds beginning with confrontations during interview segments rather than backstage skits, sneak attacks, etc.

 

Put an emphasis on certain "rules" again. Ref instructions prior to title matches. Tag ropes in tag team matches. Emphasis on time limits with the ringside announcer counting down the time that has elapsed/remaining. Two Raw/Smackdown matches are given 20 minute time limits. Two are given ten and then the squashes are given five minutes.

 

GM's and figure heads are replaced by a President who only appears in special circumstances (jack tunney style) and a championship committee. Although it would be fun if the committee appeared on air from time to time with people like Mick Foley, Bob Backlund, Iron Sheik, etc. for entertainment value.

 

No more scripted promos. The creative team can help the talent with their promos but give the guy's some creative freedom again to make what we are seeing seem unscripted. That is what made Nitro entertaining - the NWO weren't scripted down to the line. There should be improversation. Guys like Spanky, John Cena, Shawn OHaire come to mind as people I think would thrive like this rather than reading cue cards.

 

Lastly, embrace the past. The next boom will come when even the casual fan who no longer watches the product can flick the stations some day and see the wrestling they may have grew up loving and abandoning. This company monopolizes the business now and whether they want to admit it or not, they monopolize, not sports entertainment but PRO WRESTLING. It's future should celebrate it's past.

 

PITTSBURGH NET RADIO

[Guest JaKyL25]

^^^^Nothing much to add to that, just wanted to point out two things there that they already ARE doing:

 

#1) They have brought back an emphasis on Tag Ropes and what they're there for, at least on SmackDown.

 

#2) Cena scripts his own stuff. He ain't readin' cue cards.

[Guest justcoz]

Yeah, they also brought back the ref instructions back to the title matches on Vengence. I did forget about the tag ropes and I shouldn't have thrown Cena in with that list. I think Smackdown on many points have already touched upon many of the concept changes I mentioned above but it seems like Vince and Steph input too much of their passe formulas into the mix. Smackdown's product overall seems more serious in nature right down to the commentating as Cole and Tazz point out the right things to concentrate on in their announcing. Amazingly Cole has become better at adding a legitimacy to what he's calling than JR - when that used to be his strength. I think Lawler and Raw's creative make it difficult for Ross and Lawler encourages him to go into his cliches too much...

[Guest PhantMan]

i think Jericho is the toal package too and i think he deservers another run with the belt, but it needs to be booked better, not like last time plz.

you seriously think they're gonna try ONCE AGAIN with jericho as the champ? they screwed up so many times. the fact is that if jericho really was championship material he'd shine no mater what. flair is a legend and a great champ but you can't argue he's always been booked like shit except for '89.

 

wwe should stop worryng about chris. what is done is done. period.

[Guest Choken One]

Flair was Booked like shit in 1992?

[Guest PhantMan]

great matches in '9, but being the champ and playing second fiddle to the "retiring" hulk hogan is not my idea of great booking. you could see mcmahon was only too willing to put over savage and forget flair since he's not one of his creations.

[Detective Comics 0]

I really don't think things will get better. I just don't see it. WWE has the market, at least until TNA gets a cable deal, so I don't see them improving any time soon. They still make the money, no matter how much business is down, so to revamp things by January is a joke.

 

Just accept the facts that WWE will never be run by smarks, and even if it was, everyone would bitch about it anyways.

[Guest The Tino Standard]

The entire product needs revamped by January. To quote Lance Storm the product needs to become... "serious for a moment."

 

Goodbye on air McMahons. Goodbye backstage skits. There can still be angle development backstage but no more skits where people are talking to each other as if they don't know a camera is present. Goodbye 20 minute in ring promos. Goodbye GM's. Goodbye anything inspired by 1998.

 

Goodbye JR and King. Jerry can stay on with some sort of King's Court interview segment or something but he adds nothing to the product currently and won't when it comes to the direction it needs to go in. Raw needs totally overhauled. JR can stay on but give anyone from DDP, Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Dusty Rhodes or evil Tony Schiavone on color.

 

They need to put some element of believability back into the product. Yes, we all know it's "fake" but people are willing to suspend belief and believe if the storytelling is convincing enough. I often felt that Vince Russo was part right. He was wrong for believing that you can pretty much expose the business without consequences but he was right with the belief that "shoot" type scenarios - angles drawn from real life situations (bret/Hbk, Jericho idolizing HBK, HBK/Flair) are angles made believable because they were inspired by reality. For instance, Jericho vs. Goldberg could have been classic if they would have added in the real life backstage fight to the story.

 

Kill Confidential and instead air the Confidential like features like they've done for Brock, Zach Gowen, Kurt Angle, Ric Flair's plane crash, etc. onto Raw and Smackdown. These stories often do not break kayfabe but rather add dimensions to the personas these guy's carry with them. There is no reason for these excellent pieces to be limited to a small audience on Saturday night when they can do so much to get people behind characters. Even the nostalgic themed pieces could do things to make championships feel important (the Confidential World Title piece and IC title piece).

 

The shows return to presenting a "card" of wrestling macthes. Three or four competetive matches and maybe two squashes. The mic work is either in the arena with an interviewer ala Gene Okerlund style or brief in ring promos during ring introductions like ECW. Confidential pieces and WWE music video productions to hype the matches we are about to see fill the rest of the time.

 

The formula is bringing an old school style to a new generation and modernizing it. Matches with slower builds, more psychology which tell a story that the creative team can't (see Benoit vs. matt Hardy on smackdown). Feuds beginning with confrontations during interview segments rather than backstage skits, sneak attacks, etc.

 

Put an emphasis on certain "rules" again. Ref instructions prior to title matches. Tag ropes in tag team matches. Emphasis on time limits with the ringside announcer counting down the time that has elapsed/remaining. Two Raw/Smackdown matches are given 20 minute time limits. Two are given ten and then the squashes are given five minutes.

 

GM's and figure heads are replaced by a President who only appears in special circumstances (jack tunney style) and a championship committee. Although it would be fun if the committee appeared on air from time to time with people like Mick Foley, Bob Backlund, Iron Sheik, etc. for entertainment value.

 

No more scripted promos. The creative team can help the talent with their promos but give the guy's some creative freedom again to make what we are seeing seem unscripted. That is what made Nitro entertaining - the NWO weren't scripted down to the line. There should be improversation. Guys like Spanky, John Cena, Shawn OHaire come to mind as people I think would thrive like this rather than reading cue cards.

 

Lastly, embrace the past. The next boom will come when even the casual fan who no longer watches the product can flick the stations some day and see the wrestling they may have grew up loving and abandoning. This company monopolizes the business now and whether they want to admit it or not, they monopolize, not sports entertainment but PRO WRESTLING. It's future should celebrate it's past.

 

PITTSBURGH NET RADIO

Why don't you just start a collection of 1980s NWA tapes? You'll be a lot happier watching those instead of expecting WWE to take those suggestions.

[boobshaw 0]

Don't forget about the US Title. Although Eddy's gimmick is a little.. non-wrestlingesque (new word!), they claim that they will put more emphasis on actual wrestling when it comes to the belt.

[Guest eiker_ir]

you seriously think they're gonna try ONCE AGAIN with jericho as the champ? they screwed up so many times. the fact is that if jericho really was championship material he'd shine no mater what.

 

i do think that they're gonna try at least once again with Chris, seeing as he's like the only guy HHH hasn't defeated in his whole year as a champion, i think they should turn him face and chase for the World title.

[Guest justcoz]

Why don't you just start a collection of 1980s NWA tapes? You'll be a lot happier watching those instead of expecting WWE to take those suggestions.

 

I already have a decent collection, thank you. And Tully Blanchard vs. Wahoo McDaniel has a lot more heat than most of the Raw main events we've seen lately.

 

I never said I expected WWE to take those suggestions. The point is their next "big concept" or boom period will not come until they revamp the presentation of their product. It's not going to be an NWO angle or heel GM vs. face GM. They are already half way there by changing their in ring product to more of a reflection of those times.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

They need to put some element of believability back into the product. Yes, we all know it's "fake" but people are willing to suspend belief and believe if the storytelling is convincing enough. I often felt that Vince Russo was part right. He was wrong for believing that you can pretty much expose the business without consequences but he was right with the belief that "shoot" type scenarios - angles drawn from real life situations (bret/Hbk, Jericho idolizing HBK, HBK/Flair) are angles made believable because they were inspired by reality.

I see your point, but the fact of the matter is that these angles hurt business. Yea, it's great for the IWC. But the mark fans,(which outnumber us in leaps and bounds)make up most of the audience and that is who the WWE caters to.

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

Re: the tag ropes

 

Aside from the 1st couple weeks after they were brought back, the tag ropes are hardly used. Hardly anybody holds on to them while making the tag. Heels don't use them to choke the faces. Raw doesn't even use them (I think). I even think there were a few SD shows where the tag ropes weren't even there. The issue isn't so much implementation as it is utilization.

[Guest FeArHaVoC]

- Jericho as champ. he flopped. period. the guy is too busy trying not to blow spot after spot against stiffs like rhyno to concentrate on being a credible champ.

Jesus, can you think of any other excuses besides a match that Jericho had a concussion in 5 months before his World Championship win?

 

Jericho was booked like shit. People were trying to bury him from the get go. He was booked secord rate and was playing second fiddle to Austin, the nWo and Triple H's return.

 

You can only be given the ball and run with it so far before the people on your back take you down and hold you there.

[Guest Trivia247]

in Reality Scott Hall's last WWE run wasn't even bad as it could be. He was actually decent...and why? Because Hall was the nWo Workhorse he did the majority of all the matches. Hogan and Nash just wandered around on camera but Hall went out and did the Raw and Heat matches. before Nash fell down and went boom he only did what...1 or 2 matches?

 

If Hall got drunk on the plane...its STILL the corporate Plane and not filled with fricken Passagers that would make the WWE liable. From as far as I heard Hall wasn't bendering during this Past stint. Maybe he has been in TNA but at the big show Hall does try his damndest not to screw up...even when he does.

 

hell look at the track record. When Hall was in the height of Razor Ramone...and in the nWo at 96-98 before WM conversely...he was fine. When the WWF Took the ratings over Hall seem to go drinky drinky. Hell they even made it a On air angle about his drinking problem. after WCW Out of the 3 Hall was the hardest working guy, Went to ECW to IPW to TCW to Japan. he actually bust his ass while Nash was sitting on his couch and eating cheetos and Hogan tried to start a promotion in Florida on the Universal Studio's TOUR set with SABLE as his figurehead chairman.

 

if Hall can't handle it then he shouldn't be there..

 

but if he could people can always give him the shot. never say nevah

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I don't even see how Jericho botching spots with Rhyno can be related to his title run given they were 6 months apart.

 

But yes, it's Jerichos fault. Flair would have shined walking HHH's dog, getting Steph hand lotion, almost jobbing to Maven, and curtain jerking smackdown against Tazz all the while being over-shadowed by HHH, Austin, Rock and Hogan.

[Guest PhantMan]

you seriously think they're gonna try ONCE AGAIN with jericho as the champ? they screwed up so many times. the fact is that if jericho really was championship material he'd shine no mater what.

 

i do think that they're gonna try at least once again with Chris, seeing as he's like the only guy HHH hasn't defeated in his whole year as a champion, i think they should turn him face and chase for the World title.

please!? HHH beat up jericho's ass before wm. beat his ass for the gold at wm and then, just to add in a few shots for being the inmternet darling, beat his ass in hell in the cell in one crappy match where he didn't give jericho any credible offense.

[Guest bob_barron]

in Reality Scott Hall's last WWE run wasn't even bad as it could be.

 

You mean being unable to stay sober despite numerous chances from the WWF is not as bad as it could be?

 

He was actually decent...and why?

 

No he wasn't. He had two matches with Stone Cold that were just stunnerfests and were pretty awful.

 

Because Hall was the nWo Workhorse he did the majority of all the matches.

 

That's because they didn't want to put Hogan in the ring too much because of Wrestlemania. And with Nash not having a match at Mania- it'd be pointles.

 

Hogan and Nash just wandered around on camera but Hall went out and did the Raw and Heat matches.

 

After the nWo split up- Hogan did work a lot more then Hall did. He was wrestling a lot on Smackdown.

 

If Hall got drunk on the plane

 

He didn't get drunk on the plane. Hall was so drunk that he was asleep the whole flight.

 

...its STILL the corporate Plane and not filled with fricken Passagers that would make the WWE liable.

 

They tried to keep him sober but Hall's a drunk- plain and simple.

 

From as far as I heard Hall wasn't bendering during this Past stint.

 

You must be deaf then. Hall was drunk numerous times during his WWF stint. That's why they fired him.

 

Maybe he has been in TNA but at the big show Hall does try his damndest not to screw up

 

He showed up to Wrestlemania drunk. I think that's screwing up

 

When Hall was in the height of Razor Ramone...and in the nWo at 96-98 before WM conversely

 

No he wasn't. In 1996 he was suspended for drug and alcohol use.

 

When the WWF Took the ratings over Hall seem to go drinky drinky. Hell they even made it a On air angle about his drinking problem.

 

Hall's been "drinky drinky" as you say it along time before the WWF took over in the ratings.

 

Hall was the hardest working guy, Went to ECW to IPW to TCW to Japan. he actually bust his ass while Nash was sitting on his couch and eating cheetos and Hogan tried to start a promotion in Florida on the Universal Studio's TOUR set with SABLE as his figurehead chairman.

 

Considering Hogan has been in the business a lot longer then Scott Hall- I'd call him the hardest working guy.

[Detective Comics 0]

an Alien angle.

 

would anyone here really be surprised?

[Guest Goodear]

We're smack in the middle of the next big concept with Unmasked Kane.

[Guest justcoz]

Jericho deserves another run as champion but I'm against him being a face. Jericho works best as a heel.

 

Now as for Scott Hall... I wouldn't be interested in them bringing him back as a wrestler but I'd love to hear him on color. I think Raw should drop Lawler and just experiment with different color guys for a period. Hall could be funny and could actually be quite good I believe.

 

and I agree... he was the work horse during the last NWO run... maybe he was drunk and had some eratic behavior backstage but he went out there and worked - I still believe half decently compared to a sober Nash. He uput people over and did his job...