Angle says Benoit deserves to be WWE champion

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

He low-blowed him.

Which was minimal to what he usually did.

Usually he'd have to pull off the turnbuckle pad, hit them with the belt, low-blow them, then put his feet on the ropes and JUST BARELY squeak by.

[Guest godthedog]

i always thought jericho put his feet on the ropes just to be a dick about it. like eddie pulling the tights after he KILLED edge with a sunset powerbomb right on his head at unforgiven last year.

[Guest CanadianChick]

i always thought jericho put his feet on the ropes just to be a dick about it. like eddie pulling the tights after he KILLED edge with a sunset powerbomb right on his head at unforgiven last year.

Actually, so did I. And Eddy pulling the tights at Unforgiven was just gold.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Benoit had his motivation stated before the rumble. He wants to win the title so all of his sacrifices, all of his families sacrifices, would mean something.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

The problem is that Benoit has been on Cruise Control for months. If I didn't know his old stuff, I wouldn't think he was anything special.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

But who's fault is it?

 

The WWE certainly hasn't given Benoit a lot of high calibre talent to work with... or even good talent... Take the experience level of the guys he's been wrestling with over the past few months save Eddie and Matt, add em all together, and you get Benoits.

 

I would contend that Benoit is in "do your best kid, I'll bump and keep up" mode. Where he lets his opponents (O'haire, Cena, Bashams, Albert, Rhyno) get in the majority of the offense to showcase their skills, sometimes it works (Benjamin, to a point Albert), some times it doesn't (Cena, Bashams, Rhyno). Benoit loves to work with new talent.

 

I won't deny that Benoit has been wrestling "Benoits match" with the same amount of spots and whatnot in them for quite some time, but he has shown he can pull out new spots (ddt on the apron vs. angle, rolling hammerlock northern light suplexes vs RVD) and still have good matches (Hardy, Eddie). And really, it's the WWE, so it's all the "same match" just with 3 different signature moves involved.

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

But who's fault is it?

 

The WWE certainly hasn't given Benoit a lot of high calibre talent to work with... or even good talent... Take the experience level of the guys he's been wrestling with over the past few months save Eddie and Matt, add em all together, and you get Benoits.

 

I would contend that Benoit is in "do your best kid, I'll bump and keep up" mode. Where he lets his opponents (O'haire, Cena, Bashams, Albert, Rhyno) get in the majority of the offense to showcase their skills, sometimes it works (Benjamin, to a point Albert), some times it doesn't (Cena, Bashams, Rhyno). Benoit loves to work with new talent.

 

I won't deny that Benoit has been wrestling "Benoits match" with the same amount of spots and whatnot in them for quite some time, but he has shown he can pull out new spots (ddt on the apron vs. angle, rolling hammerlock northern light suplexes vs RVD) and still have good matches (Hardy, Eddie). And really, it's the WWE, so it's all the "same match" just with 3 different signature moves involved.

Not saying it's BENIOT'S fault Rudo, just saying that right now I'd rather see Angle, Lesnar, Guerrero, or Mysterio with the World Title then Benoit.

 

Hell, look at Big Show. He's been BUSTING HIS ASS recently, Benoit's been dogging it. That doesn't say "World Title to me." Especially when he's telling everyone else that they've gotta "Feel it."

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Benoit has hardly been "dogging it". Watch his recent matches with Matt or Eddie or infact anytime he wrestles.

[Guest Ray]

jericho is over too but he'll never be champ again. why? bc he sucked.

 

Tell me you didn't just blame Jericho for that shitty Undisputed Title reign. That was ALLLLL poor booking.

 

being over today means selling merchandise and having a good catchphrase. it doesn't mean an automatic title reign.

 

Another thing that bothers me, is people who say Benoit isn't marketable. Blah I say! I think he's quite marketable.

 

He's the ultimate lone warrior, silent assassin character. He calls himself "The Best damn technical wrestler in WWE," and backs it up with his intensity in the ring. "Prove me wrong!" etc...

 

THAT^^ is, to me, a very marketable character.

 

He can be pushed as the ONE man WITHOUT an over the top gimmick.

 

 

I can see it now...."I'm a better wrestler than you Brock. I can beat you any time, anywhere. Prove me wrong Brock, Prove me wrong!"

[Guest PhantMan]

then brock squashes his ass and benoit goes "ok, sorry. I suck"

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Benoit has hardly been "dogging it". Watch his recent matches with Matt or Eddie or infact anytime he wrestles.

It's not enough to be good if you have the ability to be better.

[Guest Ray]

then brock squashes his ass and benoit goes "ok, sorry. I suck"

Oh hell.

 

Stop posting you fool.

[Guest Adrian 3:16]

Another thing that bothers me, is people who say Benoit isn't marketable. Blah I say! I think he's quite marketable.

 

He's the ultimate lone warrior, silent assassin character. He calls himself "The Best damn technical wrestler in WWE," and backs it up with his intensity in the ring. "Prove me wrong!" etc...

 

THAT^^ is, to me, a very marketable character.

 

He can be pushed as the ONE man WITHOUT an over the top gimmick.

 

 

I can see it now...."I'm a better wrestler than you Brock. I can beat you any time, anywhere. Prove me wrong Brock, Prove me wrong!"

*claps*

 

 

In any other situation, such as movies or even video games and comic books, a lone, silent bad-ass is as cool a character as you can get. But for some reason Vince and friends like every character to be as goofy and/or loud-mouthed as possible, and by reading this thread they've obviously trained some of you to think the same. Frankly its nice to have a little variety from over the top characters like Angle, Rock or Jericho once in a while.

 

And I defy anyone knocking Benoit's mic skills to defend Brock, since I'm sure a lot of you have no problem with him being champ. Benoit isn't the greatest promo man of all time but for his character he's adequate enough. Brock on the other hand is atrocious. Anyone remember the sitdown promo where he goes over all the goals he's accomplished?

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

But for some reason Vince and friends like every character to be as goofy and/or loud-mouthed as possible, and by reading this thread they've obviously trained some of you to think the same.

I know I said I was done, but hey, I lied, and I wanted to say, thank you.

 

See, that's why I like Benoit so much and I won't deny or apologize for it. He's different from the norm. In WWE world everyone needs to be loud, obnoxious, or overstated. Also, the definition of charisma and mic skills is extremely narrow in the WWE environment, and thus you end up with person after person regurgitating Vince's opinions of what he wants to see in people to justify his actions and who he wants to push. If we were seeing a repeat of his 1985 or 1998 successes, I wouldn't dispute anything, but right now we have Vince's golden boys as champions or on top, and no matter how much you think if they're worthy or unworthy, week after week I read about house shows half full and even TV tapings with empty seats from time to time. That, to me, indicates that Vince's formula of what brings in the masses is just not working. No, I'm not saying that give Chris a one year reign, but justifying things with the current product with the current crop is very flawed. Heck, WWE made the excuse that the poor turnout for the SummerSlam press conference was due to the news of the killings of Saddam's sons! That is clear to me that the company is willing to make every excuse in the book in order to avoid looking in their own backyard regarding their woes.

 

Finally, I really am amused at certain people's attempts to flamebait and troll. Now enjoy RAW tonight and I hope you don't lose your dinners with Coach and King saying 76 times that Randy Orton and Mark Jindrak with their amazing array of dropkicks are the wave of the future.

 

EDIT: I would just like to add that for around 2 months, Benoit was getting 3 to 5 minutes of ring time. Big Show regularly gets twice that much. I can't think of any 3-5 minute classics. Carry on.

Edited August 4, 2003 by Mulatto Heat

[Guest PhantMan]

some of you may suspect I hate benoit. I don't. I respect him. the only thing is that I stopped liking him after the jericho series. he was first a title contender... then an ic title contender... then back to world title... then ic... on and on... you just can't get into a character when he doesn't have a specific goal in mind. why should a mark care for a guy who doesn't care about hi career in the first place?

 

of course I mean in kayfabe.

[Guest EternallyLazy]

I love Benoit as much as the average smark... but come on, lets be serious. He does SUCK on the mic. His voice is as monotone as a robot, and if you need a reminder of just how bad his delivery is... may I remind you of

 

"tick tock... tick... tock... tick tock"

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Benoit's promos are no worse than Lesnar's, and Benoit doesn't sound like a 14 year old (unlike Brock)

[Guest Anglesault]

Benoit should get a title reign, but not until after Mania. No reason for him to derail Angle/Lesnar to get a month long title reign doomed to fail and fuck three people over.

[Cherry Blossom Viscount 0]

Benoit deserves a month long token title reign just like Hogan got. There's nothing "special" about Benoit anymore. He's not the best wrestler in the WWE, he's not the most charasmatic, he doesn't have an "aura," and he's definately not the best talker. Except for the wrestling part, he's pretty below average in all of those categories. Chris Jericho is champion material, he is the total package. Benoit is barely 25% of the package these days. Him getting the title at this point is no better than A-Train. Now, if this was Benoit from 2-10 years ago, yeah, I could see a title reign, but it's really too late now. Let him stick to the midcards and put people over while Brock/Show/Cena/Angle/Taker/TWGTT/Matt Hardy rule the main event scene.

[Guest EternallyLazy]

Let him stick to the midcards and put people over while Brock/Show/Cena/Angle/Taker/TWGTT/Matt Hardy rule the main event scene.

wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait... WAIT!

 

Benoit shouldn't be in the main event but Big Show and Taker should be??

 

Please tell me you were being sarcastic

[Guest Anglesault]

Benoit's promos are no worse than Lesnar's, and Benoit doesn't sound like a 14 year old (unlike Brock)

Yeah!

 

He sounds like Ben Stine.

[Guest Anglesault]

Let him stick to the midcards and put people over while Brock/Show/Cena/Angle/Taker/TWGTT/Matt Hardy rule the main event scene.

wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait... WAIT!

 

Benoit shouldn't be in the main event but Big Show and Taker should be??

 

Please tell me you were being sarcastic

Well, Taker is very over, and having a damn good brawl with Cena of all people shows he has something left.

 

But with, not instead of Benoit

[Guest wildpegasus]

To anyone who says Benoit's been dogging it-(and I'm guessing you mean mentally) You're wrong. Benoit still puts all his energy in each and every move. Just watch him preform. Look at how a normal WWE match is constucted. When you're a face you're much more limited in how a match goes than when you're a heel. That's why Benoit's matches are usually better as a heel. It also appears from watching matches that Benoit doesn't tend to coregraph much of his matches therefore leaving much of a match up to his heel opponent. My point here is there's only so much you can do when you're a face, you're restricted into a WWE style and when your move set is severely restricted. Therefore, it's not realistic to say that Benoit's dogging it.

[Guest EternallyLazy]

Let him stick to the midcards and put people over while Brock/Show/Cena/Angle/Taker/TWGTT/Matt Hardy rule the main event scene.

wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait... WAIT!

 

Benoit shouldn't be in the main event but Big Show and Taker should be??

 

Please tell me you were being sarcastic

Well, Taker is very over, and having a damn good brawl with Cena of all people shows he has something left.

 

But with, not instead of Benoit

I like Taker, and I've always felt he's been unfairly bashed as far as his in ring skills go... I mean seriously, watch a match with him in '91 and compare it to his style today. It's much better today

 

I just found it kind of strange that he feels Benoit shouldnt be in the main event because of lack of charisma yet last time I looked, Big Show and Taker aren't exactly overpowering him in that category

[Guest godthedog]

To anyone who says Benoit's been dogging it-(and I'm guessing you mean mentally) You're wrong. Benoit still puts all his energy in each and every move. Just watch him preform. Look at how a normal WWE match is constucted. When you're a face you're much more limited in how a match goes than when you're a heel. That's why Benoit's matches are usually better as a heel. It also appears from watching matches that Benoit doesn't tend to coregraph much of his matches therefore leaving much of a match up to his heel opponent. My point here is there's only so much you can do when you're a face, you're restricted into a WWE style and when your move set is severely restricted. Therefore, it's not realistic to say that Benoit's dogging it.

i think benoit's a lot better as a face than a heel. because of his size and sheer intensity he's a natural underdog, and his sense of timing for comebacks & such is godlike. he's also got a cool, flashy offense, which works a lot better for a face than a heel. he's okay at making the crowd get behind his opponent, but he's just not good at making the crowd dislike him. he doesn't really play to the crowd like a heel should. he doesn't really cheat or act like a dick, he just physically dissects whoever he wrestles. and that looks really cool and painful, but it doesn't make the crowd go "boo." historically, benoit's always gotten a better reaction as a face in the wwf. the only time i can think of that he's been way over as a heel was in 2000 with the rock, and his face reaction at the rumble was still stronger than that.

 

and a wrestler can still control the flow of the match as a face. it's just a matter of who's calling the spots. hell, look at just about any bret hart match.

 

EDIT: general note--i'm really sick of this "benoit has no charisma" shit. in the ring, he oozes charisma. except possibly eddie guerrero, NOBODY can bring a crowd into a match solely based on what's going on inside the ring better than benoit.

Edited August 5, 2003 by godthedog

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Do I think that Benoit should be champ _right now_? No. Put the title on him _now_ and he'd bomb. For his title run to be as effective as it can be, it needs to be built up for months. There is some major damage control issues here as the last 6 months have been horrible to him. Right now it would take winning his feud with Rhyno (PLUS giving Rhyno a damn good explanation for turning on Benoit... me thinks Heyman playing with his mind would do just fine), then a feud with a higher up (Brock) then a title match (Angle), or they could change it up a lil bit with Angle/Benoit then Benoit/Brock. Both could work well. (covers ears while AS bitches).

 

Is Benoit marketable? No. He isn't the guy that I personally would invest the companies entire resources on. BUT, he does have admirable characteristics which would get the fans to massively cheer for him. He's basically the Tommy Dreamer of the WWE, someone for the fans to call 'their own'. He won't go to hollywood, he doesn't do commercials or spots on talkshows, he isn't featured in magazines. He is strictly for the WWE fans.

[Guest Austin3164life]

the bushwhackers were over, too, in their heyday...

This has been done thousands of times. Benoit is over with the fans as an intense technician. People buy him because in the ring he delivers and keeps the crowd begging for more, which negates the "not able to work anymore" theory. All the WWE brass need to do is give Benoit even a good nudge and you have a legitimate Main Eventer.

[Guest BAR]

He does deserve it. Even if he didn't, did the Big Show deserve it? Or course not.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

I've seen this argument a thousand times..but..not to burst your bubble or anything..

 

When did being a good wrestler get anyone a shot at the championship?

 

(I guess I shoulda clarified that. WWE and the rest of the normal wrestling world are decidedly different.)

 

The only comparison I can think of would be Hart/Michaels..but the WWF was in the toilet. Hm. So Benoit should win about the end of the year or so, at this rate.

Edited August 5, 2003 by El Psycho Diablo

[Guest BAR]

AJPW 90's comes to mind. I don't visit the WWE folder much. So, I've never heard the arguement.

 

EDIT: Oh, okay then, forget it.

Edited August 5, 2003 by BAR