Angle says Benoit deserves to be WWE champion

[Guest Choken One]

and then in comes RRR TO say

 

"BENOIT ENTERTAINS ME! AND THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS"...

 

It's an endless cycle

 

Blah Blah #1: Benoit is mis-used and is the greatest of all time..after Flair of course

 

Blah Blah #2: I LOVE BENOIT!

 

Blah Blah #3: Eh...He's over rated.

 

Blah Blah #1: oVER RATED? Fuck you! you don't know wrestling...stupid mark...

 

Blah Blah #4: He might be good but he has no charisma and can't work a mic

 

Blah Blah #2: WHO GIVES A FUCK! This is WRESTLING! Not Soap Opera...

 

Blah Blah #3: It's a Business and Benoit doesn't draw...

 

Blah Blah #4: Besides...Guerrero is better...

 

Blah Blah #1: Bullshit...Benoit/Random Jap ?/??/???? was THE GREATEST of all time...Go watch it and REALIZE your idiocy...

 

Blah blah 3: Stop Sucking Benoit's balls...

 

and it goes on and on like that

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I would never use the "____ entertains me and that's all that matters"

 

I am very anti-that.

 

I think Benoit can stand up on his own two feet.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

The 3 Points against Benoit are:

 

1. His Promos Suck.

 

2. He has no charisma.

 

3. He can't get the crowd involved in his matches.

 

And to a lesser extent:

 

4. He wrestles "Benoits Match"

 

5. He has deteriorated over the past few years.

 

Am I right here??

[Cherry Blossom Viscount 0]

GodtheDog - EDIT: general note--i'm really sick of this "benoit has no charisma" shit. in the ring, he oozes charisma. except possibly eddie guerrero, NOBODY can bring a crowd into a match solely based on what's going on inside the ring better than benoit.

 

Me - Hmmm, besides Eddie Guerrero, let' see.....

 

The Rock

HHH a few years ago (VERY rarely now)

Kurt Angle

Steve Austin

Hulk Fucking Hogan

HBK

Chris Jericho

 

And maybe even Booker T as well.

 

GodtheDog - i'm talking BASED SOLELY ON WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE RING, not promos. rocky can't go from "being pretty over" to "being over like a demigod" through the course of a single match.

Who said Benoit has more charisma than the Rock?

[Cherry Blossom Viscount 0]

The 3 Points against Benoit are:

 

1. His Promos Suck.

 

2. He has no charisma.

 

3. He can't get the crowd involved in his matches.

 

And to a lesser extent:

 

4. He wrestles "Benoits Match"

 

5. He has deteriorated over the past few years.

 

Am I right here??

Yes, though #3 isn't really a point I use. It'a a point the other side blows WAAAAAAY out of proportion.

[Guest Choken One]

The 3 Points against Benoit are:

 

1. His Promos Suck.

 

2. He has no charisma.

 

3. He can't get the crowd involved in his matches.

 

And to a lesser extent:

 

4. He wrestles "Benoits Match"

 

5. He has deteriorated over the past few years.

 

Am I right here??

6. He got a Missing Tooth

 

7. Nicked Named after furry animal

 

8. Is Canadian

 

9. Roided...

 

10. Has The Bret Hart Syndrome...when he dogs it...HE really fucking dogs it...

[Cherry Blossom Viscount 0]

The 3 Points against Benoit are:

 

1. His Promos Suck.

 

2. He has no charisma.

 

3. He can't get the crowd involved in his matches.

 

And to a lesser extent:

 

4. He wrestles "Benoits Match"

 

5. He has deteriorated over the past few years.

 

Am I right here??

6. He got a Missing Tooth

 

7. Nicked Named after furry animal

 

8. Is Canadian

 

9. Roided...

 

10. Has The Bret Hart Syndrome...when he dogs it...HE really fucking dogs it...

No one cares about his tooth. It makes him look like a sleazeball in a way though.

 

People like Wolverine moniker.

 

Being Canadian is a good thing.

 

People seem to ignore the fact that Benoit is in roids while raking HHH over the coals for it.

 

I've never seen a horrible Benoit match. Just a bunch of bland, average ones.

[Guest Choken One]

It's a nice nick name but since a Wolverine isn't that intimidating...It loses it's effect...

 

Which why I wish they just stick with

 

"The Crippler"

[Guest DrainYou42]

Being Canadian is a good thing.

Liar.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

That has nothing to do with charisma (btw I disagree with it - Rock has excellent timing in the ring and that adds to his matches, plus he has incredible workrate and can work a very fast pace - hell, watch Rock vs. Austin, or Rock vs. Hogan - Rock plays around with the crowd very well in his matches), and everything to do with Ring-Work and bumping and stiff shots.

 

He didn't say "Benoit has more charisma than the Rock" - which is what you've been contorting and manipulating for 2/3 pages now. So drop that. Rock is the most charismatic man I've seen in wrestling, ever. But that is mainly shown in promos. That is mainly associated with Promos. So when you say (that someone else says...) "Benoit has more charisma than the Rock" without including the "in-ring" inclusion (which was clearly stated multiple times yet excluded anytime you said it) the main point gets lost; Nor were you forgiving with his, let's just say, poor word selection.

 

His point was this: Benoit is able to get the crowds into his matches, on in-ring ability alone, better than anyone else, maybe excluding Guerrero. He cited Benoit vs. Angle has proof of this, where a dead crowd from HHH/Steiner was going wild at the end of Benoit/Angle. That doesn't have so much to do with charisma as it does with effort and ring-ability.

 

In that, do you see, "Benoit has more charisma than the Rock"??

 

(I hope I didn't put any words in GtD's mouth, if so, correct me)

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

This "Benoit has been dogging it lately" point is getting out-of-hand. Someone prove it... can someone do that?

[Guest Choken One]

I am speaking from the perpective that Benoit is usually "ON" and it kicks ass but lately he has been doing what has been called "Benoit Match" in which in he does the same fourmula for each match where he likely isnt inspired to work it out...

 

It's not really a negative criticism at all...It's just pointing out that Benoit hasn't been putting that usual effort into his matches as of late (mainly the tv matches) but it's stil decent but it's such a drop off from his usual stellar quality....thus it become quite noticeable.

[Guest Goodear]

His point was this: Benoit is able to get the crowds into his matches, on in-ring ability alone, better than anyone else, maybe excluding Guerrero. He cited Benoit vs. Angle has proof of this, where a dead crowd from HHH/Steiner was going wild at the end of Benoit/Angle. That doesn't have so much to do with charisma as it does with effort and ring-ability.

 

And what I have been trying to say, is that its virtually impossible to make that distinction. All wrestlers do a lot of things in the ring that aren't tied entirely to their workrate, even with Benoit. Flair goes Whoo, Rock gives the come and get it motion, and Chris does the throat slash. Those things along with promos and angles that take place before a match all play a part in how well a match is going to get inself over. It's virtually impossible to say that Benoit could gain that same reaction if he was like say Jamie Noble (who doesn't have the history that Benoit does) and if there was no angle between himself and Kurt.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I agree Goodear.

 

Jushin “Thunder” Liger- If Liger’s working another company’s shows, he’s willing to put effort into a match if his opponent has some ideas and is willing to work hard. He refuses to carry guys who have no clue if they aren’t working for his company. Pretty much, Liger would give his opponents a finish and then say “Now go make the rest of the match.” “If you can come up with a five-star match, he’ll have a five-star match with you. If you’re a peon idiot and only come up with a one-star match, he’ll just have a one-star match with you.” The fans know how good Liger is so, if the match sucks, they know who’s fault it is.

 

When I read that, I can't help but think that's what Benoit is doing right now. He's working with all the young guys like Ohaire, Bashams, Rhyno, Cena, Albert, Benjamin, Haas and he's saying "You make the match, I'll keep up". He's not carrying these guys cause if he carries them, how will they learn? So he lets them take control, and sometimes it works (Albert, Benjamin) where they take advantage of Benoit bumping his ass off for them and work it, or they do chinlocks (Rhyno).

[Guest Goodear]

Fair enough, its just odd coming from a guy that made Kevin Sullivan watchable in a singles match so I just sort of re-adjust my ratings accordingly.

 

Plus, thats fine to do like Rhyno since he's been around so long, but Benoit should do like the Bashams a favor and give them a carry to get them over while they work on getting better.

[Cherry Blossom Viscount 0]

That has nothing to do with charisma (btw I disagree with it - Rock has excellent timing in the ring and that adds to his matches, plus he has incredible workrate and can work a very fast pace - hell, watch Rock vs. Austin, or Rock vs. Hogan - Rock plays around with the crowd very well in his matches), and everything to do with Ring-Work and bumping and stiff shots.

 

He didn't say "Benoit has more charisma than the Rock" - which is what you've been contorting and manipulating for 2/3 pages now. So drop that. Rock is the most charismatic man I've seen in wrestling, ever. But that is mainly shown in promos. That is mainly associated with Promos. So when you say (that someone else says...) "Benoit has more charisma than the Rock" without including the "in-ring" inclusion (which was clearly stated multiple times yet excluded anytime you said it) the main point gets lost; Nor were you forgiving with his, let's just say, poor word selection.

 

His point was this: Benoit is able to get the crowds into his matches, on in-ring ability alone, better than anyone else, maybe excluding Guerrero. He cited Benoit vs. Angle has proof of this, where a dead crowd from HHH/Steiner was going wild at the end of Benoit/Angle. That doesn't have so much to do with charisma as it does with effort and ring-ability.

 

In that, do you see, "Benoit has more charisma than the Rock"??

 

(I hope I didn't put any words in GtD's mouth, if so, correct me)

GTD's was trying to say Benoit had more in-ring charisma than the Rock. That's what I disagreed with. I don't think anyone, sans you, believed I was trying to manipulate that into Benoit having more overall charisma than the Rock, as well know that is ridiculous.

 

And even as far as in ring charisma goes, it's ridiculous to say Benoit has more than the Rock. A few simple movements from the Rock can get a crowd on it's feet, it can take Benoit maybe 10-15 minutes to pull off something to get the crowd to pop for him, usually a chain wrestling sequence that involves him usually more over opponent at that.

 

In the end, saying Benoit has more in ring charisma than the Rock is JUST as bad as saying he has more charisma than the Rock as you can plainly see in both cases, he does not. In ring skills yes, in ring charisma, not a chance.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Oh I agree with you, Rock gets very active in the ring w. the fans (vs. Austin WM 19 is the perfect example). I think GtD picked the wrong word to explain what he was thinking, plus a poor train of thought.

 

I think his basis was:

 

Benoit vs. Angle brought the crowd alive => Benoit can bring crowds alive with his matches => Benoit has great in-ring charisma.

[Lil' Bitch 0]

Even if it was just for one night only, I'd love to see it happen...