Chris Jericho's moveset and RVD's lack of suplexes

[Guest rawmvp]

Have you watched Jericho's matches lately? He barely incorporates any offensive manuevers into his matches. He has the lionsault, Big Bossman's patented move, Walls of Jericho, an ugly drop sleeper, and an occasional belly to back/regular suplex. Unfortunately, he saves the top-rope reverse elbow and top-rope dropkick for PPV's.

 

He rarely does the springboard dropkick anymore. He doesn't do the butterfly backbreaker, double powerbomb, inverted suplex, and top-rope hurricaranas like he did in WCW and ECW.

 

What gives? His matches are becoming quite dull. Maybe he'll revert back to doing double powerbombs when he turns face again, but I doubt it.

 

RVD, on the other hand, rarely suplexes any of his opponents. If he did, I think it would make him a more consummate performer. He probably would have an easier time selling, too, because most of his offense wouldn't consist of kicks.

 

What do you guys think?

[Guest Coffey]

When RVD was in ECW, he used a lot of suplexes, so I see where you're coming from. The Northern Suplex w/ Bridge & German Suplex w/ Bridge both come to mind. He also used a DDT, and a Piledriver in ECW. He did a lot of planchas and suicide dives as well, which doesn't happen in the WWE.

 

Hell, he even used Mexican Surfboards in ECW. His moveset have obviously been toned down. Some say it's "WWE style" others say it's because the main eventers don't want to be "outshined." I think it's a combination of both.

 

Chris Jericho's moveset if about 1/5 of what is used to be. You named a lot of the ones that are missing. Shit, half the basic ones are missing too. Little things like leg work moves. Dropkick to Knee, Dragon Screw Leg Whip, etc.

[Guest edotherocket]

I often wonder if it really is the 'WWE Moveset' that restricts the wrestlers or whether its more a case of wrestlers not really giving a shit any more since getting a push seems to be more reliant on everything except for talent and the ability to draw heat from a crowd.

 

Wasn't it Dibiase who said being a good wrestler is cursed because you're simply used to be put over less skilled wrestlers? Look where it got Jericho.

[Guest rawmvp]

I would venture to guess that it's a combo of both not caring anymore because they realize they won't be pushed regardless and the restrictive "WWE Moveset" ideology.

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

Whom is Jericho going to perform the double powerbomb on? Or the butterfly backbreaker, or the top-rope hurricanrana? With the exception of a few guys on the Raw roster, everybody is too big for Jericho to perform these moves on.

[Guest webmasterofwrestlegame]

Jericho uses his suplex moves when he is firmly in control of the match for a sustained period.

 

Even though his match with RVD went around 12mins, given a longer match that your average RAW match I am sure we would see them - you certainly do on his longer WWE matches (usually on PPV and pending opponent).

[Guest eiker_ir]

Jericho just busts this moves on PPV mostly now, check out the match vs. Shan at WM to see this, he does a Northen Lights suplex, Butterfly backbreaker, Missile Drop-kick, The flying reverse elbow, springboard drop-kick, etc.

[Guest y2jailbait]

There is just no reason for them to use these moves.

 

Don't you guys watch these TV matches sometimes and know that RVD, Booker, Jericho, Benoit, Angle, etc could just light the ring on fire if they wanted to? The ability is all there, but the messages from management cause them to tone it down.

 

It's not right for the fans, but for durability purposes, I see why management does it. You can't have RVD and Jericho kill each other for a RAW semi-main event that only so many people are going to actually see.

[Crimson Platypus 0]

There is just no reason for them to use these moves.

 

Don't you guys watch these TV matches sometimes and know that RVD, Booker, Jericho, Benoit, Angle, etc could just light the ring on fire if they wanted to? The ability is all there, but the messages from management cause them to tone it down.

 

It's not right for the fans, but for durability purposes, I see why management does it. You can't have RVD and Jericho kill each other for a RAW semi-main event that only so many people are going to actually see.

Pretty good point there as long as they do actually bust out the big moveset for the ppv. Otherwise it's just dumbing down the product for various (speculative) reasons.

 

1. HHH, Nash, et al - all can't do more than 3 moves for one reason or another.

2. Dreaded WWE style.

3. Size limitations (tough for Jericho to double powerbomb Nash).

4. Stuff I haven't thought of.

[Guest Brian]

When you're given shorter periods of time and don't go full-speed for light TV matches, you're going to continue to get over a small number of moves that work for the crowd. You use what works and you continue to put emphasis on the your bigger moves. Not everyone goes full speed night-in, night-out.

[Guest Ripper]

And might I add that the double power bomb is one of the suckiest moves in wrestling due to the guy getting powerbombed having to help so much. I am happy that Jerhico removed it from his moveset.

[Guest razazteca]

Jericho should bring back the Yeah Baby taunt and the arrogent pose pin.

[Guest eiker_ir]

i see him doing it all the time.

 

he should just use a normal powerbomb, to add a little impact to his moveset

[Guest Downhome]

They're just adapting to the WWE style.

[Guest Goodear]

I am so fucking tired of this WWE style nonsense. Jericho has an aweful moveset because he's not physically strong enough to lift people that are any bigger than 250 pounds. Christian has a terrible moveset because he's fucking lazy and has no wind. Don't try to tell me that Billy Freaking Gunn and A-Train are allowed to expand their moves all the time but those two aren't.

[Guest Raven_Effect01]

I am so fucking tired of this WWE style nonsense. Jericho has an aweful moveset because he's not physically strong enough to lift people that are any bigger than 250 pounds. Christian has a terrible moveset because he's fucking lazy and has no wind. Don't try to tell me that Billy Freaking Gunn and A-Train are allowed to expand their moves all the time but those two aren't.

So I assume the only wrestler you like is Christopher Daniels/The Curry Man? Sure he's good, but aren't there any other wrestlers you like too?

[Guest Goodear]

Hey, I like lots of guys. Jericho bothers me even though I'll admit he's the best worker and talker on RAW. Still, there are probably about seven guys on Smackdown that I would rather watch night in and out than Jericho.

 

Christian BLOOOOOOOOWS.

 

GOODEAR'S WWE LIST OF PEOPLE HE LIKES BEST~!

1) Eddie Guerrero

2) Kurt Angle

3) Brock Lesnar

4) World's Greatest Tag Team

5) Chris Benoit

6) Rey Mysterio

7) Jericho

 

Can you sleep now that you know I like people?

[Guest Ripper]

I am so fucking tired of this WWE style nonsense. Jericho has an aweful moveset because he's not physically strong enough to lift people that are any bigger than 250 pounds. Christian has a terrible moveset because he's fucking lazy and has no wind. Don't try to tell me that Billy Freaking Gunn and A-Train are allowed to expand their moves all the time but those two aren't.

That is Bullshit.

 

I remember him getting slammed for hip tossing Big Show when he first came in because he wasn't suppose to be able to do that. Shit, Randy Savage (before the super roid savage) scoop slammed Big Show easily just because he forgot he was suppose to be the BIG MAN!

 

Even the smaller guys in that ring can routinely toss around the bigger guys.

 

If EVERY wrestler comes in and their offense changes, how is it not obvious. The guy named what, 6 moves that is gone from his arsenal now. WWE likes them to keep it simple and they do.

[Guest Raven_Effect01]

GOODEAR'S WWE LIST OF PEOPLE HE LIKES BEST~!

1) Eddie Guerrero

2) Kurt Angle

3) Brock Lesnar

4) World's Greatest Tag Team

5) Chris Benoit

6) Rey Mysterio

7) Jericho

I thought you hated Benoit now? Did you change your mind or something? Or did you just say you don't like him as much as you used to?

[Guest NoCalMike]

Isee Rey was listed in that guys Smackdown list. Well there is no way in hell you can try to say Rey hasn't had to adapt to a different style because of the "wwe style" He had to add bulk and doesn't perform half as good as he used to, even though he is still fun to watch, the stuff he does is simply not "amazing" anymore

Edited August 6, 2003 by NoCalMike

[Rendclaw 0]

That and a lot of wrestlers do a lot of his moves nowadays, so anything Rey does isn;t quite as special anymore... I remember when he would bust out a rana out of nowhere and the place would go CRAZY.

[Guest NoCalMike]

Well Rey could still do a lot of stuff no one on the roster can do, but WWE can't decide if they want Rey the Giant killer, Rey the Main eventer, or Rey the cruiserweight. I wish he would get rid of the bulk, but it is WWE......

[Guest deadbeater]

Look at Molly. Because she is the only woman who can take hot, hot finishes from anyone else, especially from the guys, she was known as Lady Jobs-a-Lot. Then the WWE brass finally figured out, "This is ridiculous. Molly would job to a broomstick if asked, and we have her job to women less talented than a broomstick."

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

The WWE style exists!!!!!!!!!!

 

Dammit. It's real.

 

D-Lo said so...and he'd know better than Goodear.

[Guest Thunder Rising!!!]

The WWE style exists!!!!!!!!!!

 

Dammit. It's real.

 

D-Lo said so...and he'd know better than Goodear.

Just ask DLo, just ask him.

[Guest Goodear]

Rey's slowing down is do to him being slower now due to the fifteen zillion knee injuries. He just isn't able to do the head cracking rana turnover as often as he used to with Juventud and Psychosis (and it probably doesn't help that he faces a lot bigger guys in WWE that aren't able to do the tight flip).

 

I like Benoit fine, I just don't like him in the "OMG give him every belt ever" way.

 

I'm also not saying the WWE style doesn't exist. It's the principle reason we don't see emerald fusions and tiger driver '91s every week. But, it doesn't restrict movesets so much that it excuses Christian's aweful set and Jericho's lack of strength. Do you really think the WWE would crap a brick if either guy started breaking out some of Bret Hart's moves that weren't built on power?

[Guest Prototype450]

I always wondered why Jericho changed his Liontamer from the one he did and wcw and before to the one he has now. Don't tell me, it's that dreaded WWE style...

[Guest CanadianChick]

I always wondered why Jericho changed his Liontamer from the one he did and wcw and before to the one he has now. Don't tell me, it's that dreaded WWE style...

Simply, most guys aren't flexible enough to take the old one. Remember, when he was in WCW, he would face cruiserweights. Usually, cruisers tend to be flexible. He did use his WCW version versus Benoit in that feud. I would guess the only people flexible enough to take the old Liontamer on the Raw roster would be RVD and, well, the women.

[Guest NoCalMike]

WWE having a larger ring also forces changes in certain aspects of a moveset.

[Guest Prototype450]

I always wondered why Jericho changed his Liontamer from the one he did and wcw and before to the one he has now.  Don't tell me, it's that dreaded WWE style...

Simply, most guys aren't flexible enough to take the old one. Remember, when he was in WCW, he would face cruiserweights. Usually, cruisers tend to be flexible. He did use his WCW version versus Benoit in that feud. I would guess the only people flexible enough to take the old Liontamer on the Raw roster would be RVD and, well, the women.

aha.