Dean backtracks

[Firestarter 0]

And it's even more unheard of for a journalist to lie. Their integrity and credibility are far, far less questionable than any intelligence official's. After all, the New York Times has gone 152 years without printing a single falsehood!

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

That story has been -- and continues to be -- corroborated by nearly all of the news sources out there.

[Firestarter 0]

Cite one which doesn't use Novak's column as its basis.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

You're assuming, I suppose, that Novak "guessed" that Wilson's wife was a CIA agent, are you not?

[Guest TheZsaszHorsemen]

Joseph Wilson was "smeared" by the administration's disclosure of his wife as an active CIA agent

The administration has never done anything of the sort. No one in the White House has ever done anything of the sort. Kindly provide some proof for your ridiculous slander. But you can't, can you?

Even if this wasn't true, it's just flat out naive to believe that the CIA DOESN'T have operations for which there is no tangible evidence that private citizens can access. I mean that's the whole point of COVERT operations.

[Guest MikeSC]

You're assuming, I suppose, that Novak "guessed" that Wilson's wife was a CIA agent, are you not?

Hmmm, then I suppose we can say, for certain, that Gore's people leaked the story of Bush's DUI arrest in the 1970's, huh?

-=Mike --- Where there is air, there might be fire

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Of course you can. I didn't even think that was in question.

 

It happens in politics all the time, look at the smear job the Rovians did to John McCain.

 

The difference here is that Wilson's wife wasn't running for office, she was protecting the country as an agent in the CIA.

[Guest MikeSC]

That story has been -- and continues to be -- corroborated by nearly all of the news sources out there.

So Novak is a dick for mentioning it.

 

Can you PROVE to ANY degree of legitimacy, that your assumption is valid?

 

Oooh, "other media sources" corroborate it. The media is amongst the laziest people on Earth and the number of "journalists" who actually do ANY research is virtually nil.

-=Mike

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

The point is that there absolutely must be a higher source than Bob Novak telling him this.

[Guest MikeSC]

Of course you can. I didn't even think that was in question.

 

It happens in politics all the time, look at the smear job the Rovians did to John McCain.

 

The difference here is that Wilson's wife wasn't running for office, she was protecting the country as an agent in the CIA.

No, I cannot because I do not KNOW that Gore did it. I can ASSUME all day, but I cannot and will not say he DID it.

 

As for McCain, read the Arizona papers that did FAR worse to him than that "vicious" Rove did.

-=Mike --- and those papers KNEW John better than YOU.

[Guest MikeSC]

The point is that there absolutely must be a higher source than Bob Novak telling him this.

So it MUST be Bush?

 

Maybe it was somebody at Langley and NOT the administration?

 

Maybe it was somebody who didn't like him, knew him, and who was not in the administration?

-=Mike

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Of course you can. I didn't even think that was in question.

 

It happens in politics all the time, look at the smear job the Rovians did to John McCain.

 

The difference here is that Wilson's wife wasn't running for office, she was protecting the country as an agent in the CIA.

No, I cannot because I do not KNOW that Gore did it. I can ASSUME all day, but I cannot and will not say he DID it.

 

As for McCain, read the Arizona papers that did FAR worse to him than that "vicious" Rove did.

-=Mike --- and those papers KNEW John better than YOU.

You're proving precisely nothing, Mike, and you're wasting both of our times.

 

I didn't say Bush, I said the administration. If you identify Bush by his administration, by all means take it as you wish.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

The point is that there absolutely must be a higher source than Bob Novak telling him this.

So it MUST be Bush?

 

Maybe it was somebody at Langley and NOT the administration?

 

Maybe it was somebody who didn't like him, knew him, and who was not in the administration?

-=Mike

The quote came from a "senior administration source"

[Guest MikeSC]

Of course you can. I didn't even think that was in question.

 

It happens in politics all the time, look at the smear job the Rovians did to John McCain.

 

The difference here is that Wilson's wife wasn't running for office, she was protecting the country as an agent in the CIA.

No, I cannot because I do not KNOW that Gore did it. I can ASSUME all day, but I cannot and will not say he DID it.

 

As for McCain, read the Arizona papers that did FAR worse to him than that "vicious" Rove did.

-=Mike --- and those papers KNEW John better than YOU.

You're proving precisely nothing, Mike, and you're wasting both of our times.

 

I didn't say Bush, I said the administration. If you identify Bush by his administration, by all means take it as you wish.

That's how EVERYBODY takes it --- and they SHOULD take it. The PRESIDENT is in charge of HIS administration. That's the most basic staple of accountability.

 

You're either bombing poli sci --- or your professors are screwing you out of an education.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

The point is that there absolutely must be a higher source than Bob Novak telling him this.

So it MUST be Bush?

 

Maybe it was somebody at Langley and NOT the administration?

 

Maybe it was somebody who didn't like him, knew him, and who was not in the administration?

-=Mike

The quote came from a "senior administration source"

And I don't buy it for one second.

 

Just as, odds are, "Deep Throat" never existed.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

Because none of the other people in his administration ever leave his side, do they?

 

And actually, I have a 3.73 GPA right now. I'm far from bombing it.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

The point is that there absolutely must be a higher source than Bob Novak telling him this.

So it MUST be Bush?

 

Maybe it was somebody at Langley and NOT the administration?

 

Maybe it was somebody who didn't like him, knew him, and who was not in the administration?

-=Mike

The quote came from a "senior administration source"

And I don't buy it for one second.

 

Just as, odds are, "Deep Throat" never existed.

Then you're assuming that Bob Novak simply grasped on straws and MIRACULOUSLY discovered that his wife was a CIA agent?

[Guest MikeSC]

The point is that there absolutely must be a higher source than Bob Novak telling him this.

So it MUST be Bush?

 

Maybe it was somebody at Langley and NOT the administration?

 

Maybe it was somebody who didn't like him, knew him, and who was not in the administration?

-=Mike

The quote came from a "senior administration source"

And I don't buy it for one second.

 

Just as, odds are, "Deep Throat" never existed.

Then you're assuming that Bob Novak simply grasped on straws and MIRACULOUSLY discovered that his wife was a CIA agent?

I'm assuming somebody who knows Wilson and has an axe to grind did it.

 

I do not assume the administration did it.

 

And Novak is still a dick for even reporting it.

-=Mike

[Firestarter 0]

You're assuming, I suppose, that Novak "guessed" that Wilson's wife was a CIA agent, are you not?

No. I'm assuming someone else told him - if it's true. Unlike you, I am NOT assuming that someone in the administration told him, because there is absolutely ZERO proof of that. It's well-known that Bob Novak doesn't like the President or his administration, and the President's administration generally doesn't like Novak. I find it absolutely incredible that he would be chosen for such a leak IF anyone were unprincipled enough to leak such things in the first place. IF it's true.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

There is absolutely ZERO proof to back up your story as well, so how is my theory any less relevant than yours?

[Firestarter 0]

Even if this wasn't true, it's just flat out naive to believe that the CIA DOESN'T have operations for which there is no tangible evidence that private citizens can access. I mean that's the whole point of COVERT operations.

Your point being? This ridiculously elementary point has never been denied. It has never even come up in this thread.

[Guest MikeSC]

There is absolutely ZERO proof to back up your story as well, so how is my theory any less relevant than yours?

Because her theory is based on history and human behavior while yours is, well, not.

 

Man, one day, you'll be pissed at how poorly your professors are doing their jobs.

-=Mike

[Firestarter 0]

There is absolutely ZERO proof to back up your story as well, so how is my theory any less relevant than yours?

See Tyler, I'm not telling a story. I'm just asking you to provide evidence for yours. I don't believe every ridiculous fairy-tale that comes my way. You seem to. The onus isn't on me to provide evidence that your airhead fantasy didn't happen; the onus is on Bob Novak to provide his sources or on you to provide independent confirmation. Failing that I will take these unsubstantiated allegations of a "smear campaign" for what they're worth.

 

Zero.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

There is absolutely ZERO proof to back up your story as well, so how is my theory any less relevant than yours?

Because her theory is based on history and human behavior while yours is, well, not.

 

Man, one day, you'll be pissed at how poorly your professors are doing their jobs.

-=Mike

History and human behavior? Her theory was "someone outside the administration told him"

 

Um, where's the history there? The human behavior?

 

The only difference between our opinions is that one believes it was the administration and one doesn't. Neither of us know the truth, and there's no evidence supporting either side.

 

It's sad, because while you're trying to use some condescending mention of college professors, you're assuming that you sound any less biased and ridiculous.

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

My "evidence" is "Who has the most to gain?"

 

Also, it would be journalistic suicide for him to name his sources, since they'd never give him information again.

[Guest MikeSC]

There is absolutely ZERO proof to back up your story as well, so how is my theory any less relevant than yours?

Because her theory is based on history and human behavior while yours is, well, not.

 

Man, one day, you'll be pissed at how poorly your professors are doing their jobs.

-=Mike

History and human behavior? Her theory was "someone outside the administration told him"

 

Um, where's the history there? The human behavior?

 

The only difference between our opinions is that one believes it was the administration and one doesn't. Neither of us know the truth, and there's no evidence supporting either side.

 

It's sad, because while you're trying to use some condescending mention of college professors, you're assuming that you sound any less biased and ridiculous.

Her theory WAS that since Novak and the administration DON'T GET ALONG --- it is not likely that they'd go to HIM to leak a story. That would be like assuming Clinton would go to National Review to leak information. It is illogical to the highest degree.

 

I'm basing my assumption, along with Marney, on the knowledge that Bob is hardly pro-Bush and administrations don't leak info to people who aren't enamored with them. It's stupid politics.

 

I never sound you were ignorant due to your biases. Your ignorant because you IGNORE human behavior and history.

-=Mike

[Guest MikeSC]

My "evidence" is "Who has the most to gain?"

 

Also, it would be journalistic suicide for him to name his sources, since they'd never give him information again.

How does it help Bush to tear down Joe Wilson who 99% of the country doesn't know who he is?

 

Well, then Novak has the problem of trying to prove that what he said came from the administration since it's not likely to be the case.

-=Mike

[Dr. Tyler; Captain America 0]

It sends a message to anyone who wants to step up to speak out against the administraton's Iraq policy, theoretically.

[Firestarter 0]

And so, theoretically, we're reduced to using BOB NOVAK as our menacing enforcer.

 

I'm sorry, I can't make fun of this right now. I'm on the phone right now with a co-worker and we're laughing ourselves silly over the idea.

 

"Hey hey hey hey hey! I - I - I hope they don't drag out the REALLY big guns to beat back our Novak offensive... y'know..."

"You - you don't mean..."

"Yeah... MAUREEN DOWD!"

 

Oh my goodness. I can't see straight, I'll be back later.

[Vyce 0]

Congrads. You've taken one thing that's been infinitely blown out of proportion and on case of mistaken identity, neither of which were the fault of the president, and pushed the blame on him.

That's the Tyler we know and "love"!