Fökai 0 Report post Posted August 24, 2003 Bringing up face HHH against Goldberg proves nothing really because no one was drawing in that environment. A 2000 face HHH might have been a totally different story. I'm NOT bringing up HHH's face run because it fits my argument - it's because HHH was continously talking trash about Goldberg being a LOUSY face champion, yet the numbers not only will prove that Bill was a great face champion, but that HHH drew about 1/3rd (as a face champion) of what Goldberg was doing at his peak. That is where the whole confrontation at the convention stemmed from, which included the proposal of a shoot fight from Goldberg to HHH. It's not worth the argument because you're wrong. It was Goldberg's fault, like I explained to you earlier. Yeah, it was Goldberg who booked Booker's disastrous run as World Champ. The fans were apathetic towards everyone main-eventing in the promotion. The pushes of Jarrett, Steiner and Booker were being undermined by the tenured workers (DDP, Nash, Hogan, Luger) who wanted to keep their spot - Goldberg was simply left out of the entire equation due to the serious arm injury and bad booking (feuding with Russo, while starting a new streak, then retiring after losing to LEX LUGER). I don't see how the HHH thing is more serious than Goldberg challenging Austin, threatening Karagias, and getting into a scuffle with Jericho. DID HE CHALLENGE ANY OF THOSE THREE PEOPLE TO SHOOT FIGHTS? No, Goldberg/Karagias was a backstage scuffle started by Karagias (after Karagias made underhanded comments "in jest") which was quickly smoothed over. The fight with Jericho was for the same reasoning Bischoff/Flair went down weeks later - two egos disagreeing over something that happened the past. That was smoothed over by both parties as the week progressed. To my knowledge, Goldberg has only said he wished to see Goldberg/Austin in a wrestling ring, because it was the definitive "dream match" - he said this in his last website chat (prior to entering the WWE). The serious threats against HHH, are because of a deep-rooted animosity between the two, which stemmed from HHH's comments on Goldberg's WCW run back in 1999. This IS a serious issue, especially when HHH has balked at every opporunity to pull the trigger on their single's match. THAT'S THE ORIGINAL ARGUMENT YOU POSED - "...challenged guys to shoot fights" - DON'T STRAY AWAY FROM IT. No, because ANYONE in his shoes would've done it, and that person is a liar if he/she says otherwise. Yeah but not everyone would let it go to their head and act like an asshole. Look, this is the same argument we started on Page One. Let's define your hate on Goldberg right now. Goldberg's two "asshole-ish" qualities (that everyon seems to come back to) are that: 1. He lets the ego get to him. TRUTH: He disagreed with how management booked him to lose on that Nitro (how about a money match with Booker on a PPV, where CLEAN JOBS MATTER.) And that's not being an asshole - that's doing business correctly. Why job either main-event contender clean on television, when they still had unresolved issues? Vince did the same thing last year with Austin v. Lesnar; Austin was blamed simply for wanting to have a money match down the line, with a CLEAN JOB ON PAY-PER-VIEW. 2. He wants money. TRUTH: Umm, why WOULDN'T he want a good contract? Especially when Vince McMahon is all too eager to throw that ridiculous contract at him, with limited requirements in show dates) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted August 25, 2003 3) GB jobbed to Steiner? You mean the match where it took Midajah and Russo nailing him with a friggin' lead pipe to take him down? Way to build up Scotty, there. (Not that Steiner was worth pushing). Point was made a few days ago, that Steiner rarely was booked to win cleanly as a heel. Russo took the ass-backwards route of overbooking every Scott Steiner match in 2000 with foreign objects and interference. Proof? Looking at his PPV history in 2000 - Souled Out - NO MATCH. Superbrawl - NO MATCH. Uncensored - NO MATCH. Spring Stampede - beat Awesome with interference of Nash using a crutch. Spring Stampede - beat Sting with interference of Vampiro. Slamboree - beats DeMott with interference of nWo girls. Great American Bash - uses chain to defeat Tank Abbott & Rick Steiner. Bash at the Beach - loses to Awesome, after usage of chair, after Miller interferes, then Miller prevents him from winning and strips him of his U.S. title. New Blood Rising - pinfall loss to Nash. Fall Brawl - defeats Goldberg with use of lead pipe. Halloween Havoc - intentionally DQ'ed after using lead pipe on Booker and various referees. Mayhem - defeats Booker with use of steel chair in "Caged Heat" match. Starrcade - defeats Sid with interference of Jarrett, after use of lead pipe. Wasn't aware he jobbed to Russo. If you mean that horrid Triple cage match, spearing Russo through the cage to give Vinnie the win isn't exactly "putting" anybody "over". He SHOULD be putting Russo over? And he should make sure to look even more like a neanderthal? I admitted that I was wrong on the account that he jobbed to Russo - that spear was from the Booker/Russo title match, which made Goldy look like more of a jackass for costing Booker the title. And he totally overshadowed Booker when Booker was the champ. I could counter with a "And whose fault was that?" quip, but it's not worth the argument. Booker was given the belt at horrible spots in the company, so not only did those who were booked to look invincible (Goldberg, Steiner) overshadowed him, but he was given the worst feuds to build on. 4) No, he punctured his artery because the window didn't break on cue and he got mad. The man is borderline psychotic. Uhh, NO. The pipe laid in his arm sleeve (which was there to puncture the window) slipped, so he instead threw a full-force punch with his HAND going through the window first. 5) Um, he challenged Austin also. Again, his only serious threats were against HHH - he mentioned this ad nauseum in interviews in 1999. And, for all of his problems, the WWE didn't DIE when he was the "top draw" --- something WCW DID with GB as THEIR top attraction. WWE w/ HHH as champ in 2000 did more money than WCW ever did with GB. HHH as a HEEL CHAMPION did that. The post was referring to HHH as a face champ, which did HORRIBLE business and drew bad buyrates. GB drew for about a year --- and didn't draw again after that. And he won't draw now. When was he booked properly after his initial streak ended in December 1998? The company put their focus on everyone BUT Goldberg in the waning years, including extra title reigns for Sting, Hogan, Nash and Sid. 6) GB is a ready-made star? Explains WCW's huge boost when he came back in 2000. Oh wait, nothing improved. "Ready-made" meaning a star from the WCW's boom period. In his mind, he SHOULDN'T consider himself a ready-made star, when Vince laid out a contact that treated him as such? Example 1 - Booking him over the WWE's top attraction (The Rock) in his first PPV. 7) So, GB not paying dues is OK because we would have done it? Interesting logic. No, because ANYONE in his shoes would've done it, and that person is a liar if he/she says otherwise. NOTE: I answered every question fully and to the best of my knowledge over two days ago - my apologies if any of this came off as hostile. HHH as a face champ drew "bad" buyrates and ratings --- but better than GB did as face champ in WCW. Check the numbers. And you said GB jobbed to Russo. He shouldn't have been in that situation, but don't praise him for what he did do. As for Booker, whose fault was that? GB didn't sell for him, so Billy-boy is definitely partially to blame. No, it failed to break after the first punch and rather than LET IT GO --- he pounded with his bare arm, like a grade-A moron. If "being booked properly" is getting squash after squash at the expense of the company's well-being, then he is NOT a draw whatsoever. GB was a MAJOR star during the entire downturn under Russo and THE top guy, like it or not. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted August 25, 2003 BATB 98- 1.5 Road Wild- .93 Halloween Havoc- .78 Starrcade- 1.15 Wrestlemania, the biggest show of the year, only drew a 1.6 While Backlash drew a .8 There are the numbers Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 25, 2003 Which is weird cause traditionally, WCW wasn't much of a PPV powerhouse. They rarely went above 1.0 IIRC I may recall wrong there, however, since it's been a while since I looked at the numbers. But I do remember being surprised by the small PPV numbers WCW did during their "peak". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fökai 0 Report post Posted August 25, 2003 HHH as a face champ drew "bad" buyrates and ratings --- but better than GB did as face champ in WCW. Check the numbers. To add onto Bob's reply - ::Goldberg wins United States title from Raven:: Slamboree - 0.44 Great American Bash - 0.75 (1997: 0.60) - highest buyrate for GAB since 1991. ::Goldberg wins World title from Hogan:: Bash at the Beach - 1.50 (1997: 0.78) - highest buyrate for a BATB ever. Road Wild - 0.91 (1997: 0.65) - highest buyrate in its history. Fall Brawl - 0.70 (1997: 0.53) - highest buyrate in its history. Halloween Havoc - 0.7 World War III - 0.75 (1997: 0.56) - highest buyrate in its history. Starrcade - 1.15 ::Goldberg jobs to Nash:: Souled Out 1999: 0.25 - lowest buyrate in its history. Wrestlemania, the biggest show of the year, only drew a 1.6 The lowest since 1997 (0.77). While Backlash drew a .8 The lowest in its PPV history. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted August 25, 2003 BATB 98- 1.5 Road Wild- .93 Halloween Havoc- .78 Starrcade- 1.15 Wrestlemania, the biggest show of the year, only drew a 1.6 While Backlash drew a .8 There are the numbers Mike A 1.6 is STILL better than anything GB did. And HHH had the belt for one month and had to defend against friggin' Hulk Hogan the next month. WCW lost the ratings war with him as champ. WCW lost UNTOLD millions with him as their top star. Just because Vince is idiotic enough to waste money on him doesn't make him worth fifteen cents. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted August 25, 2003 HHH as a face champ drew "bad" buyrates and ratings --- but better than GB did as face champ in WCW. Check the numbers. To add onto Bob's reply - ::Goldberg wins United States title from Raven:: Slamboree - 0.44 Great American Bash - 0.75 (1997: 0.60) - highest buyrate for GAB since 1991. ::Goldberg wins World title from Hogan:: Bash at the Beach - 1.50 (1997: 0.78) - highest buyrate for a BATB ever. Road Wild - 0.91 (1997: 0.65) - highest buyrate in its history. Fall Brawl - 0.70 (1997: 0.53) - highest buyrate in its history. Halloween Havoc - 0.7 World War III - 0.75 (1997: 0.56) - highest buyrate in its history. Starrcade - 1.15 ::Goldberg jobs to Nash:: Souled Out 1999: 0.25 - lowest buyrate in its history. Wrestlemania, the biggest show of the year, only drew a 1.6 The lowest since 1997 (0.77). While Backlash drew a .8 The lowest in its PPV history. So, you ignore the hyping of Hogan & EB v Leni & DDP which, no doubt, boosted RW's numbers --- as terrible as it is? You ignore the PLUMMETING ratings for Nitro throughout this time? You ignore the death at the box office? You ignore that once he lost his title, he NEVER drew a single time again? So, GB drew for a few months then never again. -=Mike --- not impressed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fökai 0 Report post Posted August 25, 2003 (edited) So, you ignore the hyping of Hogan & EB v Leni & DDP which, no doubt, boosted RW's numbers --- as terrible as it is? Just as you kindly as you ignore Rock/Hogan at X-8 - god knows how bad the buyrate would've bad if THAT didn't get every fan interest. You ignore the PLUMMETING ratings for Nitro throughout this time? 1997 Date Rating January 6, 1997 3.0 January 13, 1997 3.4 January 20, 1997 3.7 January 27, 1997 3.6 February 3, 1997 3.1 February 10, 1997 3.8 February 17, 1997 2.9 February 24, 1997 3.0 March 3, 1997 3.4 March 10, 1997 3.5 March 17, 1997 3.6 March 24, 1997 3.0 March 31, 1997 3.4 April 7, 1997 3.7 April 14, 1997 3.5 April 21, 1997 3.4 April 28, 1997 2.7 May 5, 1997 2.8 May 12, 1997 2.8 May 19, 1997 3.6 May 26, 1997 3.3 June 2, 1997 3.3 June 9, 1997 3.4 June 16, 1997 3.3 June 23, 1997 3.3 June 30, 1997 3.3 July 7, 1997 3.4 July 14, 1997 3.5 July 28, 1997 3.4 August 4, 1997 4.4 August 11, 1997 3.8 August 18, 1997 4.0 August 25, 1997 5.0 September 1, 1997 4.8 September 8, 1997 4.3 September 15, 1997 3.9 September 22, 1997 3.7 September 29, 1997 4.0 October 6, 1997 3.9 October 13, 1997 3.8 October 20, 1997 4.6 October 27, 1997 4.3 November 3, 1997 4.0 November 10, 1997 4.3 November 17, 1997 4.1 November 24, 1997 3.9 December 1, 1997 3.8 December 8, 1997 4.3 December 15, 1997 4.1 December 22, 1997 3.5 December 29, 1997 4.6 1998 January 5, 1998 4.3 January 12, 1998 4.6 January 19, 1998 4.5 January 26, 1998 4.7 February 2, 1998 4.9 February 9, 1998 4.6 February 16, 1998 5.1 (unopposed) February 23, 1998 4.6 March 2, 1998 4.8 March 9, 1998 4.9 March 16, 1998 5.1 (unopposed) March 23, 1998 4.6 March 30, 1998 4.2 April 6, 1998 4.6 April 13, 1998 4.2 (RAW takes it first lead - WWF now has advantage with top storyline) April 20, 1998 5.1 (Nitro off next week) May 4, 1998 3.5 May 11, 1998 4.3 May 25, 1998 4.2 June 1, 1998 3.7 June 8, 1998 4.0 June 15, 1998 4.0 June 22, 1998 4.1 June 29, 1998 4.1 Then... July 6, 1998 4.8 ::Goldberg wins world title from Hogan July 13, 1998 4.5 July 20, 1998 4.7 July 27, 1998 4.7 August 3, 1998 4.2 August 10, 1998 4.6 August 17, 1998 4.9 August 24, 1998 5.2 August 31, 1998 6.0 (unopposed) September 7, 1998 5.5 (unopposed) September 14, 1998 4.5 September 21, 1998 3.9 September 28, 1998 4.6 October 5, 1998 4.5 October 12, 1998 4.6 October 19, 1998 4.4 October 26, 1998 5.1 November 2, 1998 4.1 November 9, 1998 4.1 November 16, 1998 4.3 November 23, 1998 4.5 November 30, 1998 4.2 December 7, 1998 4.2 December 14, 1998 4.2 December 21, 1998 4.0 December 28, 1998 4.6 Look at the NUMBERS. You ignore the death at the box office? Hmm, good buyrates, good ratings...what else did you ignore to look up yourself - merchandise sales? You ignore that once he lost his title, he NEVER drew a single time again? When was he EVER the focus of the company again? Edited August 25, 2003 by bravesfan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted August 26, 2003 So, you ignore the hyping of Hogan & EB v Leni & DDP which, no doubt, boosted RW's numbers --- as terrible as it is? Just as you kindly as you ignore Rock/Hogan at X-8 - god knows how bad the buyrate would've bad if THAT didn't get every fan interest. You ignore the PLUMMETING ratings for Nitro throughout this time? 1997 Date Rating January 6, 1997 3.0 January 13, 1997 3.4 January 20, 1997 3.7 January 27, 1997 3.6 February 3, 1997 3.1 February 10, 1997 3.8 February 17, 1997 2.9 February 24, 1997 3.0 March 3, 1997 3.4 March 10, 1997 3.5 March 17, 1997 3.6 March 24, 1997 3.0 March 31, 1997 3.4 April 7, 1997 3.7 April 14, 1997 3.5 April 21, 1997 3.4 April 28, 1997 2.7 May 5, 1997 2.8 May 12, 1997 2.8 May 19, 1997 3.6 May 26, 1997 3.3 June 2, 1997 3.3 June 9, 1997 3.4 June 16, 1997 3.3 June 23, 1997 3.3 June 30, 1997 3.3 July 7, 1997 3.4 July 14, 1997 3.5 July 28, 1997 3.4 August 4, 1997 4.4 August 11, 1997 3.8 August 18, 1997 4.0 August 25, 1997 5.0 September 1, 1997 4.8 September 8, 1997 4.3 September 15, 1997 3.9 September 22, 1997 3.7 September 29, 1997 4.0 October 6, 1997 3.9 October 13, 1997 3.8 October 20, 1997 4.6 October 27, 1997 4.3 November 3, 1997 4.0 November 10, 1997 4.3 November 17, 1997 4.1 November 24, 1997 3.9 December 1, 1997 3.8 December 8, 1997 4.3 December 15, 1997 4.1 December 22, 1997 3.5 December 29, 1997 4.6 1998 January 5, 1998 4.3 January 12, 1998 4.6 January 19, 1998 4.5 January 26, 1998 4.7 February 2, 1998 4.9 February 9, 1998 4.6 February 16, 1998 5.1 (unopposed) February 23, 1998 4.6 March 2, 1998 4.8 March 9, 1998 4.9 March 16, 1998 5.1 (unopposed) March 23, 1998 4.6 March 30, 1998 4.2 April 6, 1998 4.6 April 13, 1998 4.2 (RAW takes it first lead - WWF now has advantage with top storyline) April 20, 1998 5.1 (Nitro off next week) May 4, 1998 3.5 May 11, 1998 4.3 May 25, 1998 4.2 June 1, 1998 3.7 June 8, 1998 4.0 June 15, 1998 4.0 June 22, 1998 4.1 June 29, 1998 4.1 Then... July 6, 1998 4.8 ::Goldberg wins world title from Hogan July 13, 1998 4.5 July 20, 1998 4.7 July 27, 1998 4.7 August 3, 1998 4.2 August 10, 1998 4.6 August 17, 1998 4.9 August 24, 1998 5.2 August 31, 1998 6.0 (unopposed) September 7, 1998 5.5 (unopposed) September 14, 1998 4.5 September 21, 1998 3.9 September 28, 1998 4.6 October 5, 1998 4.5 October 12, 1998 4.6 October 19, 1998 4.4 October 26, 1998 5.1 November 2, 1998 4.1 November 9, 1998 4.1 November 16, 1998 4.3 November 23, 1998 4.5 November 30, 1998 4.2 December 7, 1998 4.2 December 14, 1998 4.2 December 21, 1998 4.0 December 28, 1998 4.6 Look at the NUMBERS. You ignore the death at the box office? Hmm, good buyrates, good ratings...what else did you ignore to look up yourself - merchandise sales? You ignore that once he lost his title, he NEVER drew a single time again? When was he EVER the focus of the company again? It was WM X-8 --- it would've popped a pretty good number regardless. HHH as a face champ WAS a crap draw --- but GB was hardly a world-saver. HHH as a heel champ was HIS strength and he drew better as a heel in 2000 than GB ever did as a face. Nitro lost the ratings war, irreversibly, when GB was champ. Deny it. And if you wish to ignore GB's career post-World Title, feel free. GB as a top draw was good briefly, then his usefulness died. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fökai 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2003 It was WM X-8 --- it would've popped a pretty good number regardless. HHH as a face champ WAS a crap draw --- but GB was hardly a world-saver. HHH as a heel champ was HIS strength and he drew better as a heel in 2000 than GB ever did as a face. Thank you for ignoring the initial argument again...geez, I don't DISAGREE with your points about HHH being a great HEEL champion (in 2000, at least) - thing is, the entire comment is about HHH commenting on Goldberg being a lousy champion as a face. The point is in the irony of the whole goddamn thing. Again, X-8 had the lowest buyrate for a Wrestlemania since 1997 (generally regarded as the WWF's last bad era, which included PUSHING THE WRONG PEOPLE FOR THE TITLE.) Nitro lost the ratings war, irreversibly, when GB was champ. Deny it. Sure I will. Here's the RAW ratings compared to Nitro's run - July 6, 1998 4.0 (To Nitro's 4.8 - that means Goldberg's push was GOOD for business, no?) July 13, 1998: 4.7 (NITRO: 4.5) July 20, 1998: 5.0 (NITRO: 4.7) July 27, 1998: 4.9 (NITRO: 4.7) August 3, 1998: 4.9 (NITRO: 4.2) August 10, 1998: 4.5 (NITRO: 4.6) August 17, 1998: 4.2 (NITRO: 4.9) August 24, 1998 (NITRO: 5.2) Goldberg's last few weeks as champion - here's the opposition's ratings compared to Nitro - November 23, 1998 4.9 (NITRO: 4.5) November 30, 1998 5.0 (NITRO: 4.2) December 7, 1998 5.15 (NITRO: 4.2) December 14, 1998 5.2 (NITRO: 4.2) December 21, 1998 4.7 (NITRO: 4.0) December 28, 1998 4.9 (NITRO: 4.6) The focus was taken off of Goldberg - here's RAW's ratings... January 4, 1999 5.7 January 11, 1999 5.5 January 18, 1999 5.6 January 25, 1999 5.5 February 1, 1999 5.9 February 15, 1999 5.9 February 22, 1999 5.5 February 29, 1999 6.3 March 8, 1999 6.4 March 15, 1999 5.8 March 22, 1999 6.4 March 29, 1999 6.5 April 5, 1999 5.8 April 12, 1999 6.3 April 19, 1999 6.1 April 26, 1999 6.0 May 3, 1999 6.4 May 10, 1999 8.1 May 17, 1999 6.4 May 24, 1999 7.2 June 7, 1999 6.7 June 14, 1999 6.7 June 21, 1999 6.0 June 28, 1999 6.8 July 5, 1999 6.2 July 12, 1999 5.97 July 19, 1999 6.3 July 26, 1999 7.1 And if you wish to ignore GB's career post-World Title, feel free. GB as a top draw was good briefly, then his usefulness died. His usefulness died? When in the hell was this - when he maintained his heat, even throughout the Fingerpoke of Doom that pushed GB out of the title scene (Hogan v. Flair, Hogan v. Flair, Hogan v. Flair v. DDP v. Savage, in consecutive PPVs?) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted August 26, 2003 It was WM X-8 --- it would've popped a pretty good number regardless. HHH as a face champ WAS a crap draw --- but GB was hardly a world-saver. HHH as a heel champ was HIS strength and he drew better as a heel in 2000 than GB ever did as a face. Thank you for ignoring the initial argument again...geez, I don't DISAGREE with your points about HHH being a great HEEL champion (in 2000, at least) - thing is, the entire comment is about HHH commenting on Goldberg being a lousy champion as a face. The point is in the irony of the whole goddamn thing. Again, X-8 had the lowest buyrate for a Wrestlemania since 1997 (generally regarded as the WWF's last bad era, which included PUSHING THE WRONG PEOPLE FOR THE TITLE.) Nitro lost the ratings war, irreversibly, when GB was champ. Deny it. Sure I will. Here's the RAW ratings compared to Nitro's run - July 6, 1998 4.0 (To Nitro's 4.8 - that means Goldberg's push was GOOD for business, no?) July 13, 1998: 4.7 (NITRO: 4.5) July 20, 1998: 5.0 (NITRO: 4.7) July 27, 1998: 4.9 (NITRO: 4.7) August 3, 1998: 4.9 (NITRO: 4.2) August 10, 1998: 4.5 (NITRO: 4.6) August 17, 1998: 4.2 (NITRO: 4.9) August 24, 1998 (NITRO: 5.2) Goldberg's last few weeks as champion - here's the opposition's ratings compared to Nitro - November 23, 1998 4.9 (NITRO: 4.5) November 30, 1998 5.0 (NITRO: 4.2) December 7, 1998 5.15 (NITRO: 4.2) December 14, 1998 5.2 (NITRO: 4.2) December 21, 1998 4.7 (NITRO: 4.0) December 28, 1998 4.9 (NITRO: 4.6) The focus was taken off of Goldberg - here's RAW's ratings... January 4, 1999 5.7 January 11, 1999 5.5 January 18, 1999 5.6 January 25, 1999 5.5 February 1, 1999 5.9 February 15, 1999 5.9 February 22, 1999 5.5 February 29, 1999 6.3 March 8, 1999 6.4 March 15, 1999 5.8 March 22, 1999 6.4 March 29, 1999 6.5 April 5, 1999 5.8 April 12, 1999 6.3 April 19, 1999 6.1 April 26, 1999 6.0 May 3, 1999 6.4 May 10, 1999 8.1 May 17, 1999 6.4 May 24, 1999 7.2 June 7, 1999 6.7 June 14, 1999 6.7 June 21, 1999 6.0 June 28, 1999 6.8 July 5, 1999 6.2 July 12, 1999 5.97 July 19, 1999 6.3 July 26, 1999 7.1 And if you wish to ignore GB's career post-World Title, feel free. GB as a top draw was good briefly, then his usefulness died. His usefulness died? When in the hell was this - when he maintained his heat, even throughout the Fingerpoke of Doom that pushed GB out of the title scene (Hogan v. Flair, Hogan v. Flair, Hogan v. Flair v. DDP v. Savage, in consecutive PPVs?) Um, WCW lost MILLIONS upon MILLIONS from 1998 on. GB was the top face throughout that era. Argue whatever you wish --- WCW DIED w/ GB as a "top draw". No argument about anything else excuses that little fact. As for the Nitro where GB won the belt --- as almost EVERYBODY has pointed out, it was HORRIBLE for business. It gave WCW a one-week win in the ratings, which is just idiotic since the program MIGHT have drawn good money for months. A draw is somebody who can draw money even w/out being the World Champ or having to destroy everybody in the company. GB is not such a person. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EN090 Report post Posted August 26, 2003 Yeah, it was Goldberg who booked Booker's disastrous run as World Champ. The fans were apathetic towards everyone main-eventing in the promotion. The pushes of Jarrett, Steiner and Booker were being undermined by the tenured workers (DDP, Nash, Hogan, Luger) who wanted to keep their spot - Goldberg was simply left out of the entire equation due to the serious arm injury and bad booking (feuding with Russo, while starting a new streak, then retiring after losing to LEX LUGER). No, it was Goldberg who refused to put over Booker clean, thus undermining the WCW champion <---- A fact you keep denying and trying to put a spin on. 1. He lets the ego get to him. TRUTH: He disagreed with how management booked him to lose on that Nitro (how about a money match with Booker on a PPV, where CLEAN JOBS MATTER.) And that's not being an asshole - that's doing business correctly. Why job either main-event contender clean on television, when they still had unresolved issues? Vince did the same thing last year with Austin v. Lesnar; Austin was blamed simply for wanting to have a money match down the line, with a CLEAN JOB ON PAY-PER-VIEW. Just on that Nitro? Goldberg has messed with booking plans time upon time not just on THAT Nitro. And if your definition of doing business correctly is Goldberg refusing to put over the WCW champion and forcing the creative team to rewrite an entire show to his liking, I'd love to see your definition of doing business incorrectly. Also, just as Mike pointed out - Goldberg was WCW's main attraction during the major downturn. Goldberg was featured on all the commercials, posters, etc. And the fact that WCW went under during that time shows a lot about Goldberg's ability to draw. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
