iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2003 If theres one person this board hates more than HHH is Goldberg. I don't see this being a big buyrate PPV. 1 on 1 this match is gonna suck. Goldberg does 3 moves, HHH can barely do a move with all his injuries, and it will probably be 15 minutes long. This board isn't the sole audience that buys PPVs. This board has hardly anything to do with what the final buyrate will be. If it keeps up as hot as it was last Monday, Unforgiven should do a pretty decent number. And I know I'm in the minority here, but I think if HHH is healthy, he should be able to carry Goldberg to at least a *** match. HHH is a hell of a wrestler, and with Patterson structuring the match, i think it should be pretty good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2003 How were they selling the show? Goldbergs "career" schtick came out-of-nowhere thus creating little momentum or interest (not to mention how fucking stupid it is), HHH talking about beating Austin and Rock was completely unrelated to his title reign (which should have gone from RVD to Kane to HBK to Steiner to Booker to Nash - but I guess Steiner and Booker aren't just the big names) and was only there as a dig, calling Angle a Paper Champion and Smackdown a minor league was counter productive and seemed more like sabotage than selling as it was completely unwarranted and unfounded, then there's HHH talking about how pretty his body is, which needless to say is pointless. Goldberg standing in the ring looking like a big goof with that grin on his face saying "ass" every-other-word didn't help either. So what was being sold here? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2003 Goldberg vs. HHH will be a "street fight" or "No Dq" or something where trip can use his trusted S&M tactics. I am not saying that HHH and Goldberg shouldn't "Talk", I am just saying they shouldn't spend 15 minutes talking when it all could be said in 3 minutes and have the same effect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Real Nosferatu Report post Posted August 26, 2003 4 Words: Goldberg Needs A Manager or Goldberg Needs To Die or Goldberg Sucks That Much or This can last forever Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2003 They were selling the tension between the men and the gravity of the match. The crowd was eating up every word. Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean anything. And the career thing didn't "come out of nowhere". Goldberg had already blown his title shot when he got pinned last night, and he would only be awarded another one if HHH let him. HHH wanted to get rid of him, so he offered him a shot, but only on the condition that he'd lose if he lost. Feuds sell PPVs. Nothing else. For example, I bet a lot of people bought the St. Valentine's Day Massacre because of the Austin/McMahon feud. Then since, no one cared about the Angle/Brock feud this year, Wrestlemania had a low buyrate. The heat of the main event feud is the main tool to sell a PPV. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ArchoanJB Report post Posted August 26, 2003 If Goldberg loses next month...who's left for HHH to feud with that he hasn't pinned clean (aka clean for a heel)? He's went through just about everybody and nobody really seems like a contender anymore :/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CronoT Report post Posted August 26, 2003 Apparently most of the people on here are assuming Triple H has to lose at Unforgiven, due to the stipulations. While I sincerely hope he does, with all the talk of Goldberg's performance being a 'disappointment' and maybe not what the WWE had in mind, would it be entirely out of line to think Goldberg could be gone before the end of the year? Yep. My first thought wasn't that Triple H was going to finally lose. My first thought was that Triple H had finally soured Vince and Linda enough that they decided to throw Goldberg out. Also, and I know it's wrong, the next thought I had was "Why doesn't someone just jump out of the crowd and either shoot or stab Triple H?" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Real Nosferatu Report post Posted August 26, 2003 They were selling the tension between the men and the gravity of the match. The crowd was eating up every word. Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean anything. And the career thing didn't "come out of nowhere". Goldberg had already blown his title shot when he got pinned last night, and he would only be awarded another one if HHH let him. HHH wanted to get rid of him, so he offered him a shot, but only on the condition that he'd lose if he lost. Feuds sell PPVs. Nothing else. For example, I bet a lot of people bought the St. Valentine's Day Massacre because of the Austin/McMahon feud. Then since, no one cared about the Angle/Brock feud this year, Wrestlemania had a low buyrate. The heat of the main event feud is the main tool to sell a PPV. How did Goldberg get pinned last night? He didn't even wrestle. I didn't order SVDM because the card looked like Shit on Paper. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2003 Goldberg vs. HHH will be a "street fight" or "No Dq" or something where trip can use his trusted S&M tactics. I am not saying that HHH and Goldberg shouldn't "Talk", I am just saying they shouldn't spend 15 minutes talking when it all could be said in 3 minutes and have the same effect. It could be said in 3 minutes, but it wouldn't have the same effect. The fans would feel cheated by it being so short, and it would be forgotten by the time the show was over. If you remember back in '98/'99 almost every show started off with an in-ring promo. I've often thought it was a major thing that's been missing from the current product. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ArchoanJB Report post Posted August 26, 2003 oh about Angle/Lesnar there Iggy, what was the main FEUD of the show? Sure as hell not Angle/Lesnar on the Smackdown side...it was 80% Hogan/Vince and 20% Angle/Lesnar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2003 They were selling the tension between the men and the gravity of the match. The crowd was eating up every word. Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean anything. And the career thing didn't "come out of nowhere". Goldberg had already blown his title shot when he got pinned last night, and he would only be awarded another one if HHH let him. HHH wanted to get rid of him, so he offered him a shot, but only on the condition that he'd lose if he lost. Feuds sell PPVs. Nothing else. For example, I bet a lot of people bought the St. Valentine's Day Massacre because of the Austin/McMahon feud. Then since, no one cared about the Angle/Brock feud this year, Wrestlemania had a low buyrate. The heat of the main event feud is the main tool to sell a PPV. How did Goldberg get pinned last night? He didn't even wrestle. I didn't order SVDM because the card looked like Shit on Paper. Ok dipshit. Two nights ago. You know what the fuck I mean. And if SVDM is supposed to mean Summerslam, I didn't order it either. That has nothing to do with anything storyline-wise. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Real Nosferatu Report post Posted August 26, 2003 You just said Storylines sold PPVs. Sure Vince/Austin ruled, but it didn't make me want to spend $30 on a 10 minute match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 26, 2003 oh about Angle/Lesnar there Iggy, what was the main FEUD of the show? Sure as hell not Angle/Lesnar on the Smackdown side...it was 80% Hogan/Vince and 20% Angle/Lesnar They got about equal build, but the point is that people didn't care about any of the feuds and as a result, WM XIX got a low buyrate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 27, 2003 You just said Storylines sold PPVs. Sure Vince/Austin ruled, but it didn't make me want to spend $30 on a 10 minute match. Internet fans have different criteria for ordering PPVs. The average casual fan doesn't say "Boy, that Guerrero/Benoit match is gonna have great workrate. I'll order that PPV." They say, "I want to see Austin kick McMahon's ass. I'll order that PPV." or "I want to see Goldberg beat HHH for the title. I'll order that PPV."" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Real Nosferatu Report post Posted August 27, 2003 I WAS a Casual fan until 2001, and Still, I didn't order every PPV because ONE match was booked great. Argument for not buying PPV of SVDM: Bosman v. Mideon on a PPV. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 27, 2003 I'm not saying the rest of the card should be absolute crap. I'm just saying that the main event is the main thing people order PPVs for. I didn't order any PPVs back then, because they cost too much, but for the people that do, the main event is usually the main criterion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Real Nosferatu Report post Posted August 27, 2003 Actually, I ordered WM X-8 for JUST Hogan/Rock, and that wasn't even the main event slot. HHH/Jericho was booked as crap, because it was basically HHH/Steph with Y2J making cameo appearences. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 27, 2003 They were selling the tension between the men and the gravity of the match. The crowd was eating up every word. Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean anything. Ah, so you got the feeling that the scene could "explode at any moment"... which is what building tension does. I didn't get that feeling. It was the first segment of Raw, featuring the top heel and babyface - I would hope that the crowd would be into it... that doesn't mean it was *good*, I gave you a bunch of reasons why it was *bad*. And the career thing didn't "come out of nowhere". Goldberg had already blown his title shot when he got pinned last night, and he would only be awarded another one if HHH let him. HHH wanted to get rid of him, so he offered him a shot, but only on the condition that he'd lose if he lost. It did come out of nowhere. First, the Goldberg/HHH contract signing came out of nowhere. Goldberg has not made his intentions known for the title _at all_ since he came into the WWE. So why are we now to believe that he is willing to put his career on the line for the title? The fans have not had a very long "journey" to follow with Goldberg, so how could they invest their emotions into the possibility of him losing the title? Goldberg hasn't exactly been the thorn in HHH's side for the past few months either. HHH took him out rather easily at Summerslam. HHH has been in far more trouble with Kane, RVD, Steiner, Booker, HBK, Nash than he has with Goldberg - yet he never demanded for their careers for a title shot. Why does he do it now? Add this to the above with Goldberg and it makes this stipulation senseless. Feuds sell PPVs. Nothing else. For example, I bet a lot of people bought the St. Valentine's Day Massacre because of the Austin/McMahon feud. Then since, no one cared about the Angle/Brock feud this year, Wrestlemania had a low buyrate. The heat of the main event feud is the main tool to sell a PPV. Ah, you mean that feud that played second fiddle to Hogan/McMahon? Feuds centre around a match, therefore ultimately THE MATCH sells the show. I am not against building up the feud, I _am_ against taking unnecessary steps to help promote it. Steps like taking pot-shots at other wrestlers, spending needless amounts of time in the ring talking about nothing, adding asinine stipulations to a pretty cut-and-paste match. But hey, all this doesn't mean a thing... I guess. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Real Nosferatu Report post Posted August 27, 2003 I think i'l hire RRR as my lawyer incase I ever have legal trouble. The Chewbacca Defense has NOTHING ON HIM!! NOTHING! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 27, 2003 It could be said in 3 minutes, but it wouldn't have the same effect. The fans would feel cheated by it being so short, and it would be forgotten by the time the show was over. Ok, then you say 3 more minutes worth of material that helps build the feud. NOT add in 10 minutes of worthless chatter. Everything they say should be relevant, anything less is wasting time. If you remember back in '98/'99 almost every show started off with an in-ring promo. I've often thought it was a major thing that's been missing from the current product. Go back and read what you wrote here. Then check the date. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 27, 2003 I cannot touch the glory that is the Chewbacca defense.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Real Nosferatu Report post Posted August 27, 2003 Most of my 1998 RAW's started with actual MATCHES and the 20-minute arguments happend afterwards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 27, 2003 Goldberg hasn't exactly been the thorn in HHH's side for the past few months either. HHH took him out rather easily at Summerslam. HHH has been in far more trouble with Kane, RVD, Steiner, Booker, HBK, Nash than he has with Goldberg - yet he never demanded for their careers for a title shot. Why does he do it now? Add this to the above with Goldberg and it makes this stipulation senseless. None of those people you mentioned demanded a title shot after losing it the first time. Also, HHH probably realized Goldberg had "more guts than brains" and thus, he would be able to manipulate him into putting his career on the line when it wasn't necessary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Real Nosferatu Report post Posted August 27, 2003 Point of the 15 Minute Promo: Goldberg is a moron and he wants HHH's ass. Kind of...odd...if you ask me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RavishingRickRudo 0 Report post Posted August 27, 2003 Thank GOD someone like Kane is intelligent enough to not be conned. Or that dark fellow who wasn't in his league... Book something.. you know, with the hair and the dancing... yeah, HHH sure thought a lot about him... So all those matches that happened after the title matches occured, that was... what? You know, with Booker and Steiner and Kane.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Real Nosferatu Report post Posted August 27, 2003 ...and Nash...and....well, ya, you named the others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 27, 2003 Steiner didn't lose his first match, he won it by DQ. Booker got his shot awarded by Austin which Goldberg probably could have gotten too if he wasn't such a dumb shit. I don't remember Kane getting another one-on-one title shot for a long time. Probably since he was so introverted, he reacted by just attacking HHH physically instead of getting a microphone and asking him for another title shot. See, that's the character development I was talking about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 27, 2003 ...and Nash...and....well, ya, you named the others. Nash was also rational enough to complain to Austin about getting another shot the night after winning by DQ. Goldberg was never exactly the cool guy. He just walks right into HHH's trap. However, he is still powerful and courageous which might be enough for some people. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Real Nosferatu Report post Posted August 27, 2003 His power and courage ate a sledgehammer shot, HHH's only real offense, and lost. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iggymcfly 0 Report post Posted August 27, 2003 His power and courage ate a sledgehammer shot, HHH's only real offense, and lost. What's your point? He beat three men cleanly and then lost via a cheating sledgehammer shot from the evil heel. That fits the character perfectly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
