Fighting Game Reviews...

[Jer 0]

Aaaah I saw this and it just brought on the need to go on a rant that's been a long time in the making...

 

GameRankings review of PS2 version of SC2.

 

Does anyone remember 1999? On September 9th, a console called the Sega Dreamcast was released and Namco launched the console with a fighting title called Soul Calibur.

 

Soul Calibur to this day remains the most impressive fighting game ever.  From the graphics, to the sound, to the immense replay value, the game is simply amazing.  Needless to say the buzz for Soul Calibur 2 was immense – many people had to have this game when it was released in Japan earlier this year.  Launch events happened all over the country on release day.  Is it worth the wait?

 

Starting up the game you are provided with many different modes – "Arcade" (play a game against CPU opponents to win, "Vs Battle" – a 2 player game, Time Attack (beat all the enemies and race against the clock), Survival (beat up your opponents with the same health bar), Team Battle (new to SC, you have multiple characters on your team and they fight multiple characters in an elimination match), vs Team Battle for multiplayer excitement, Practice (duh), and the "new" Weapon Master mode which is similar to story mode on ye olde Dreamcast.

 

First, let's tackle the graphics.  They are excellent.  However, if you have seen the Dreamcast version of the original SC, they don't look much different, which actually is a credit to how incredible the graphics were on the Dreamcast system.  Load times are very fast (amazing on the archaic PS2) and you easily go from game to game without having to get a drink between matches – very impressive.

 

As far as the control goes, the PlayStation 2 version is very good – however, believe it or not, I still like the original Dreamcast controller.  I don't know why or maybe my senility has kicked in, however, I liked the triggers on the DC version.  On the PS2, everything is labeled according to what SC 2 wants, not what actually matches up on your controller – something I most definitely hate but you can get used to it (ie the screen says press "A" for a horizontal attack, press "B" for a vertical attack and press "K" to kick.  Of course these buttons are nowhere to be found on your controller, so you'll just hit square, triangle and circle respectively).  Hitting the right buttons for combos, once you get used to the system, is pretty easy.

 

Just like the original game, you beat your opponents by reducing their strength bar, knocking them out of the ring or having more strength when time runs out.  You can also 'draw' a game by being killed and killing at the same time which can go into sudden death, which is always exciting.

 

Weapon Master Mode is very similar to the 'story 'mode in the original except now you also receive experience points, gold and unlockables.  It's very similar to the original, except the map looks much better and there's a lot more text describing the scenario – which I appreciate, but this isn't an RPG.  Let's fight!

 

Sound effects are very good; you'll really appreciate the small touches they made in these effects.  This time around, players can choose Engrish or original Japanese voiceovers.  Always go with the Japanese voiceovers as even if you don't know what they are saying, it just sounds so much better than the lame Engrish translations.

 

If this was any other fighting game, I'd probably be giving it a marginally higher score but this is Soul Calibur 2 and I expect more – probably because the original Dreamcast version was just so incredible.  I fully admit, I'm holding SC 2 to a higher standard.  It is definitely an amazing fighting game – it's a great challenge to play and the fifteen different characters do give you a lot of replay value.  If I had to choose between VF4 and SC2, that would be a very hard choice.  With VF4 being only $20 and having just an incredible amount of extras, I think it wins by a hair.  Either way, you'll have fun playing these games – so much fun, I'm going to dig out my Dreamcast and get misty eyed for my first SC experience 4 years (wow, has it really been 4 years) ago. -Dan

 

Score: 89/100

 

Ugh, fighting game reviews are so awful. This one is representative of what's wrong with all of them, but it's not like a particularly bad one, because they're all like this. You could write this by watching someone play the game for five minutes. You could copy and paste this, make a few edits here and there and it would apply to any fighting game. No mention of actual gameplay whatsoever, no specifics, no reasons why it's somehow worse than the DC version, nothing. The guy clearly spent no more than a couple hours playing the game, and didn't learn enough about it to even mention any actual gameplay mechanics (You beat your opponents by reducing their strength bar! REALLY?! WOW!!!). Such garbage.

 

I guess it's not as bad as last year and Tekken 4, when it got the same substanceless coverage, except it was a copy and paste form bad review instead of a copy and paste form good review. Retarded phrases such as "button-masher" got thrown around, which just means that the reviewer has no idea what they're doing. Only in the world of fighting games are you allowed to write a review without knowing how to play the game. If someone wrote a negative review of like Metroid Prime because they played it for two hours and couldn't figure out the controls, no one would take them seriously, but with fighters, that's the norm.

 

Then you get these great positive reviews of VF4, even though it's learning curve is even higher than T4's and there's no way that any of these idiots got good enough at it for it to have been anything more than a PPP2K and low jab fest, if they even got that far. Not that there's anything wrong with VF4, but it got good reviews because of one player mode and because it was supposed to be good. The two player mode was almost never mentioned, except for the "depth" (yay buzzwords) that they always eluded to, as if they ever played any fighter long enough for that to matter. Sigh.

 

Meh, just had to vent.

[EricMM 0]

The two player mode was almost never mentioned, except for the "depth" (yay buzzwords) that they always eluded to

the word is alluded. They didn't escape to the buzzwords.

 

This is just another example of the quantity over quality review method every single mag/site/person uses when reviewing games for publication/presentation.

 

To be more specific, no mags were ever sold on three REALLY GOOD reviews.

 

It's always 90 reviews in GamePro or 100 in EGM. That means someone has to play a game until their initial impressions are finalized, add to it the data they collected while playing alpha and beta versions, and write a review a month before the game ships so that it can come out when the game does.

 

Specifically, no one could take the time to master a fighter. We all know it takes time and experience. After a while, you can tell what seperates Dead or Alive from Soul Calibur (one is balanced, the other not)

 

Add to it the clear system preference (I'm guessing this guy owned and loved his Dreamcast, and calls the PS2 "archaic" while touting the Dreamcast. WTF.) He's clearly bitter that Sega lost the war, and is very upset that the command list in his practice mode doesn't have little triangles and squares instead of A, B, K, and G. No matter that some people may prefer to change their controls, no. It should be like the Dreamcast was, and have A, B, X, and Y in the command list. With matching colors. It worked on the DC because SC was only on one system, but it's an unnecessary step for a game with 3 platforms.

 

The review COULD have addressed real issues with the game, such as the embarrasing slowdown (Xbox version looking better and better, does it slow down?) and the fact that three characters have no weapons, endings, or command lists. Oh, they're secret? So what. At least give them command lists... Similarly the endings are STILL stupid, I'm still waiting for Tekken endings OR hey, how about Soul Blade endings? Those were awsome! And why have weapons with different power and defense qualities with NO WAY to discern between them?

 

The flaws are very apparent in a game with almost no other flaws. Hit detection? Great. Character design? Amazing! Fan service? In spades! Level design varies from tiny platforms to walled enclosures to vast rooms with walls AND pits. The single player puts Tekken to shame with it's "deathmatch" style survival, 3 on 3 SNK style team arcade mode, let alone the weapon master mode. This mode DOES get old after the 104th fight in an attempt to unlock Lizard man. Weapon master mode just illustrates all the things they were unwilling to put into the game. Exploding floors a la Dead or Alive one? Sure we'll program it, but not in Vs mode! Ring out only mode? Bomb tag? All these things are in the game, and none of them in Vs. mode. This is what Smash Bros did right, it implemented everything it possibly could in ALL modes. I'm not saying Low-G or quicksand floors would make the game BETTER, but it couldnt' hurt. Variety is the spice of life.

 

In the end, Soul Calibur combines the best of SC and SB, and nothing more. It stands on it's gameplay alone, because it's extras are rarely strong enough to matter. This, it's only flaw, doesn't do enough damage to it to prevent it from being a stellar game. But you gotta shake your head as to why they didn't spend a few weeks and code all this. They have a pure vs. mode, so why not give the extra vs. mode everything?

 

That is what the review should have looked like. We all know about the graphics and sound. But the gameplay and features are what we're looking for in a review.

[Guest Sakura]

You are absolutely correct and this is one of my biggest pet peeves in gaming. The Tekken 4/VF4 stuff last year made me extremely bitter about the press. I could not rant about this enough.

 

The VF4 hype just ridiculous. You're right on about "depth" being a buzzword. That's all it is. You always see it thrown around but NEVER see any real detail about it. Nobodyis in the press ever even touches on exactly what makes VF4 so deep that no other game can manage. It's because they don't know. You can tell they're all scrubs. Their idea of "mastering" a character is the old scrub classic of knowing moves. It's bad enough they go on and on about how deep VF4 is but then it makes everyone else repeat what they hear. How many times have you seen some Gamefaqs scrub ramble on about how VF4 crushes everything because "it's just so deep"?

 

I hate the hype for Kumite mode too. I don't get it. When I play it I see Survival Mode that's in every game since Tekken 2 but with winning funny hats. Big deal. The press act like it's the second coming of Christ. I will never forget OPM gushing over it to the point where the reviewer made one of the most blatant examples of hyperbole ever: he claimed he began to "bond with his character". WTF!? Seriously. Enough hype. Even Jim Ross would laugh at that BS hype. He...bonded with his character? Give me a break. That is just sad. You fight people over and over, earn a rank, and win goofy items. How can anyone honestly say they formed a bond with their character doing that? I don't even "bond" with characters in RPGs. OMG HOLY CRAP I JUST WON A BRACLET FOR MY SHUN DI.....WHAT AN EXPERIENCE~! God. The Kumite mode hype manages to even out-hype the BS GTA III "this game changes the way we play videogames~!" and "this game brought about mature games~!" hyperbole.

 

 

It's bad enough reading nonstop VF4 hype from everyone but it really pisses me off when it leaks into other stuff...mainly the reviews for every other game. Every fighting game review in 2002 spent more time rambling about VF4 than actually talking about the game they were reviewing.

 

 

And yeah, the press has no idea what they're talking about ANY fighting game. The Tekken 4 reviews were god awful. I remember EGM ragging on T4 because King's mutli-throws are "still too powerful". WTF!? What is this garbage? "Still" too powerful? Exactly when did they START being too powerful? King's multi-throws have sucked and been completely escapable since their debut! Have you seen IGN's Tekken 4 "tournament"? Did you see when the IGN editor went onto Zaibatsu and was talking trash and got owned? How about the press putting over 10 strings? Sad.

 

It really pisses me off and makes me sad to see my favorite game(Tekken) treated second rate nowadays. Everyone is always talking about how it's a button masher or how it's not deep like VF or SC. Where do people get this from? The Tekken community in the US is bigger than SC and VF COMBINED. It is so insulting and frustrating to play a game that takes as much practice and time as Tekken does and for people to shrug it off as a mashers game. Everywhere I go I see people bash the game and make me feel like a second class fighting game fan. It sucks, I already get that enough because I like Mortal Kombat. Perhaps the worst part is that all the hype for VF4 and hate for T4 makes me kind of resent Virtua Fighter, even though I think the series is quality stuff.

[Kahran Ramsus 0]

It is the same for sports games for that matter. The problem lies with the fact that most games have an actual ending. You play the game, you beat the game, and then you review the game. Fighting games and sports games are totally dependent upon the replay value, so the reviews are not as in-depth. Fighting games are even worse these days, because at least sports games now have season modes that you usually can base a fairly good opinion on.

[AndrewTS 0]

The endings were the only real complaint I had about Calibur 1--they were a letdown from the usual Namco awesomeness.

 

I'm guessing this guy owned and loved his Dreamcast, and calls the PS2 "archaic" while touting the Dreamcast. WTF.

 

The Dreamcast is actually in many ways superior to the PS2 technically. I wish I still had the spec sheet that showed that, but I don't doubt it, because the DC's power was only beginning to be taken advantage of. BOTH systems had their problems with jaggies, so the GC and X-Box are more powerful than both, but strictly on a technical level, the PS2 in embarrassing compared to a system out over a year before it.

 

Sakura: The reason Tekken-hating is so prevalent is because VF is so "underrated" and "overlooked" by U.S. gamers. Since it's more popular in Japan, OBVIOUSLY we're the ones at fault. It can't be because many American gamers feel the game is boring as shit in comparison, right? Tekken ripped off many aspects of games already out, and obviously VF was the biggest influence--but being more realistic doesn't make a better game by default. Despite the fact that both games are Japanese, the fact that VF is favored more in Japan holds some sway in the debate. Many gamers are so blindly pro-Japan that they worship anything about the culture and anything they prefer.

 

This isn't bashing anyone who prefers VF over Tekken, provided they have good reasons for it, but I do hope people form their own opinions.

 

For example, as much as you like it, I still think the MK games suck, Sakura. I'll admit though, that when I visited my sister in New York, and the only fighting game available to me was MK CD using a 3 button controller...it...was alright. I admit, I played it quite a bit.

 

Although I think MKII smokes it and I loathe 3 and its offshoots--but that's because of the gameplay that I dislike about it. Although Sakura--why do you bash the 10-strings but like the tap-taps in MK3/UMK3/MKT?

[Guest Sakura]

why do you bash the 10-strings but like the tap-taps in MK3/UMK3/MKT?

MK's chain combos are actually good. All of the hits are guaranteed after the first one hits. Tekken's 10 strings are not like that. They are practically worthless.

[Renegade 0]

Despite the fact that both games are Japanese, the fact that VF is favored more in Japan holds some sway in the debate.  Many gamers are so blindly pro-Japan that they worship anything about the culture and anything they prefer.

That is totally absurd; I do not know a single person who got into VF because they were pro-Japan. That isn’t even scrub mentality, if anything ignorant gamers like that would actually go for the Tekken series since it has a much wider fanbase than Virtua fighter does (that is not a bash on real Tekken players).

Edited September 6, 2003 by Renegade

[Jer 0]

Yeah, but people you know aren't the people that are reviewing the games. The fact that VF4 was so well recieved in Japan definitely seemed like a factor in a lot of reviews, major magazine reviews in particular. There was a lot of the attitude that Andrew described, the "American gamers have overlooked the deeper VF series for the easier Tekken series, let's hope this game changes their mind" attitude. That's not the only reason or even the main reason that VF4 got so much hype, but it's certainly a part of it.

 

Eric, you're right that it isn't realistic to expect people to take the time to become high level at every fighter before they review it. The thing is, if they're not going to put in that kind of time, they shouldn't give an analysis that you need to be high level to give. It's not too much to ask for reviewers not to make sweeping assessments calling the game shallow or deep or easy or whatever, because they're almost never qualified to make such a judgment. I'd like them to focus most on what was added to the game (which means taking the time to figure that out, but that isn't asking too much imo). That gives a substantive, factual review without the usual bullshit hyperbole.

 

Unfortunately, a lot of reviewers won't even put in the time to do that. My friend, who generally writes very good reviews, wrote a T4 review for a college newspaper basically saying that the game added nothing, and when I gave him examples of stuff it had added, he admitted to not knowing about any of it and said (paraphrasing) "Namco should have made it more clear what all the new stuff was in the manual.". No, you should have taken the time to play through practice mode, as you did in SC2 which has an even less comprehensive manual than T4 (in addition to being less innovative, but I'm not even going to get started on that). He even admitted, upon seeing me play the game, that it looked totally different than how it did when he played. I really don't think it's asking to much, if you're not going to bother learning the game yourself, to at least watch someone who knows what they're doing and maybe talk to them about the game before writing the review. They put in 50 hours to beat an RPG, I don't think it's asking so much to put in 2 hours going to an arcade and seeing fighters played correctly.

[Guest Sakura]

The thing is, if they're not going to put in that kind of time, they shouldn't give an analysis that you need to be high level to give. It's not too much to ask for reviewers not to make sweeping assessments calling the game shallow or deep or easy or whatever, because they're almost never qualified to make such a judgment.

Exactly. That is exactly it. If they're not going to take the time to know what they'e talking about they should at least then stop making comments about a game's depth or who is overpowered.

 

 

I am convinced the press thinks "depth" means one player modes. It's the only consistent definition of "depth" I can see from them. I mean they go on and on and on and on about Kumite and Quest mode in VF , they're always talking about Mission Mode in SC II and they actually believed Ed Boon's hype about MKDA being deep because of it's Konquest mode and Krypt.

 

 

I hope Tekken 5 has a really hardcore, in depth training mode. It would be really funny to see the press go on about how Namco "took a page out of the VF book by adding all kinds of throw escapes, counters and parries to the gameplay" and what not.

[AndrewTS 0]

why do you bash the 10-strings but like the tap-taps in MK3/UMK3/MKT?

MK's chain combos are actually good. All of the hits are guaranteed after the first one hits. Tekken's 10 strings are not like that. They are practically worthless.

In other words, while the MK tap-taps are "true" combos since they are unblockable after the first hit, the ten strings aren't true combos since they can be broken up.

 

Doesn't that just make the tap-taps far cheesier and the 10-strings less cheap? I still don't see how the tap-taps are better.

 

I hope Tekken 5 has a really hardcore, in depth training mode. It would be really funny to see the press go on about how Namco "took a page out of the VF book by adding all kinds of throw escapes, counters and parries to the gameplay" and what not.

 

You mean like those features Gamefan printed a special section for in their Tekken 2 coverage in response to the press about the game lacking technique and being cheap?

 

KoRFungus: Thanks for replying on my behalf--a lot of gamers seemed to take up that attitude because of the heavily pro-VF press.

 

Yet many of this VF love only showed up when VF4 came out. You know, when a Virtua Fighter game was finally available for a non-Sega system.

 

I like both series to a degree--hell, I owned Virtua Fighter 32x! Yet they're very similar takes on the same genre, but Tekken has more flash and sizzle to it, as well as more fighters, modes of play, and cooler characters. The characters in Tekken probably are big factors in why the more casual gamers (or just non-elites) prefer Tekken: Tekken has Tiger Mask ripoffs, androids, demons, Ryu/Ken style archetypes, dinos, a kangaroo--and VF has bland-looking martial artists.

Edited September 6, 2003 by AndrewTS

[razazteca 0]

VF has the Drunken Master, a ninja, pair of blonds other than that VF is rather vanilla looking from a character stand point.

[AndrewTS 0]

VF has the Drunken Master, a ninja, pair of blonds other than that VF is rather vanilla looking from a character stand point.

Blond bombshells and ninjas--aren't those in every fighting game anyway? Yoshimitsu is a ninja BTW, only a more unique design to him.

 

I'll give VF credit for Shun Di, though, but I think the Tekken Jackie-Chan ripoff has a Drunken Master stance. So VF doesn't have many original standout characters.

[Renegade 0]

I must admit, VF's characters are lame and always were its weak point but you cant dismiss a game because of its character design as I would still take a VF game over Tekken any day.

[AndrewTS 0]

I must admit, VF's characters are lame and always were its weak point but you cant dismiss a game because of its character design as I would still take a VF game over Tekken any day.

If that's because of the gameplay that you prefer it, that's fine. I think the Tekken titles stack up quite well against it, however aesthetics are extremely important in the modern gaming marketplace. Similarly, people will buy just about any piece of crap if it has pretty graphics. Take a look at FFX's sales.

 

*is shot by Sakura*

 

Character design is just another aspect of aesthetics. Many gamers will go for graphics over gameplay, and cooler characters over lame ones--regardless of the gameplay.

[Renegade 0]

Character design is just another aspect of aesthetics. Many gamers will go for graphics over gameplay, and cooler characters over lame ones--regardless of the gameplay.

Works for DoA

[Guest Sakura]

In other words, while the MK tap-taps are "true" combos since they are unblockable after the first hit, the ten strings aren't true combos since they can be broken up.

 

Doesn't that just make the tap-taps far cheesier and the 10-strings less cheap? I still don't see how the tap-taps are better.

I am not saying like one is cheap and the other isn't or one is more fun for gameplay. My point is that the press always talk about how great 10 hit combos are(as in, they're effective) when they're not. The press act like 10 strings are this really important part of Tekken's gameplay when really you NEVER see them done in even decent level of play.

[AndrewTS 0]

Character design is just another aspect of aesthetics.  Many gamers will go for graphics over gameplay, and cooler characters over lame ones--regardless of the gameplay.

Works for DoA

That's a little different--DoA was sold entirely on the basis of boobs. There's some decent gameplay there and some cool ideas, but poor balance and the sense of "I've done this before" throughout, though.

 

Sakura: Okay, sure--I guess it's just that it's one of the more unique features to Tekken, and any semi-skilled player can bust 'em up easily. I don't think I've seen a great deal of press covering the 10-strings. Sure, Gamepro posts them all the time in their absolutely ass "stragety guides," but I don't think I heard any magazines so much as mention them when Tekken 4 was hitting the streets. Instead, I heard mainly about the new characters, enclosed arenas, new moves, etc.

[DangerousDamon 0]

What came first Tekken or Virtua Fighter

 

 

Also I have a gensis rom on my computer called VR fIGHTER vs Taken 2 [tekken 2] Is this a real game

[Insane Bump Machine 0]

What came first Tekken or Virtua Fighter

 

 

Also I have a gensis rom on my computer called VR fIGHTER vs Taken 2 [tekken 2] Is this a real game

I guess those were questions. Virtua Fighter came first. The Genesis Rom sounds fake, but why don't you just try it out?

[DangerousDamon 0]

What came first Tekken or Virtua Fighter

 

 

Also I have a gensis rom on my computer called VR fIGHTER vs Taken 2 [tekken 2]  Is this a real game

I guess those were questions. Virtua Fighter came first. The Genesis Rom sounds fake, but why don't you just try it out?

They were questions. My keyboard is messed up so I can't put certain punctuation marks. And I tried the rom out. I wanted know if it was a real game or not.

[Guest Sakura]

Virtua Fighter came out first.

 

The Genesis and SNES roms floating around are fan made hacks. The genesis one you have is probably based on VF2 for Genesis. It's AWFUL. You don't want to play it.

[AndrewTS 0]

I'm flabbergasted someone asked which came first--Tekken or Virtua Fighter...

[Renegade 0]

Virtua fighter mini is better than the genesis/megadrive VF.

[Damaramu 0]

I'm confused...which should I play? Tekken 4 or Virtua Fighter 4??????

[Renegade 0]

Give both a try and make your own decision, although I personally would much rather go for VF4 evolution.

[Jer 0]

I'd say VF4 Evo if you're mostly going to be playing by yourself, and T4 if you're mostly going to be playing against other people. VF4 Evo's one player game is much better than T4's bland, empty port, but I don't find it much fun to play against other people. Unless you're willing to devote your life to it, it's just a bunch of low jabs and throw exchanges. There's nothing more frustrating than putting dozens of hours into a game and having your entire offense no-sold by an overpowered low jab.

 

Actually I'd recommend getting both. They're only $20 each, and VF4 Evo is easily worth the purchase for the one player. And the videos. Damn, watching top level VF4 is awesome.

[DangerousDamon 0]

I'm flabbergasted someone asked which came first--Tekken or Virtua Fighter...

What is there some rule that says that I MUST know which one came first.......

 

 

 

besides it was a simple question you don't have to get all pissy about it.

[AndrewTS 0]

I'm flabbergasted someone asked which came first--Tekken or Virtua Fighter...

What is there some rule that says that I MUST know which one came first.......

 

 

 

besides it was a simple question you don't have to get all pissy about it.

How is that "getting pissy?" I didn't make a smart-ass remark or insult you. I just expressed surprise since I thought that, like it or hate it, that Virtua Fighter was a very well known game. It basically created the 3D fighting genre.

 

It seems like someone asking which came first, SFII or MK.

 

I guess it's a testament to how popular Tekken is.

[DangerousDamon 0]

Uh actually I heard about Virtua Fighter before Tekken. I used to play the original on my uncle's 32x.

 

I had heard about Tekken about 4 years after the orginal virtua fighter, but i didn't know which one came first.

[Guest Sakura]

VF created the genre but Tekken has always been a lot different than VF.