The One and Only Angel Season 5 Thread

[Anya 0]

I just watched Not Fade Away again. I like it more and more each time I watch it. I've pretty much gotten used to and accepted the ending. I still think the Black Thorne was weaksauce, but they did the best job with it they could have done with such little time.

 

 

Wesley dying still doesn't bother me. I think because they mourn. I really like their reactions when Illyria tells them. It's not long and they don't say much, but it's still nice. Why wouldn't Anya and Spike have got that in Chosen? Oh yeah, gotta joke about the mall. My bad.

[Hank Kingsley 0]

Apparently, the writers had the Black Thorn planned since the beginning of the season, it's just they introduced the actual concept in the penultimate episode. Jeffrey Bell said it in an interview, I'll see if I can find it...

[Anya 0]

Supposedly their symbol is on the robots in Lineage, Illyria's coffin, and a few other things throughout the season.

 

....If they had it planned, why did they wait so long to reveal it?

[Hank Kingsley 0]

Good question.

 

Anyway, here's the link. It's scanned off of Dreamwatch magazine.

 

Basically what Bell says is "We all knew how it was going to end from early in the season and we pretty much played it out the way we needed to. We've been setting up stuff all along that I don't think people were aware we were setting up. We have been laying out breadcrumbs along the way that I hope add up to a coherent finale that makes sense."

 

The whole interview is great, I recommend checking it out.

[Edwin MacPhisto 0]

Interesting. If it was the plan all year, then I'd say they fucked up, but I imagine it's because they need to slot in "The Girl In Question" to give some resolution to the love triangle. Leave that out and essentially start bringing together the Black Thorn threads one episode sooner so we can get the subtleties, and you're probably perfect on that arc. But understandable, and considering how fun the aforementioned episode was, more power to em.

[Anya 0]

The concept behind season 6 sounds really weird. Post-apocalyptic LA? How would that work? What about the scoobies?

[Hank Kingsley 0]

Yeah, I heard other rumors about how Angel, Spike, Illyria, and Gunn would be pulled into a parallel dimension by the Powers that Be to avoid the fight, and then return to LA or something.

 

And, speaking of the Scoobies, there was something about how Oz would be brought back to help Nina "adjust" to her HAIRY~ situation.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

Doyle as a Big Bad? How weird would that have been?

 

That's actually really cool that, for once, an apocalypse would have some consequences. Jasmine sorta did, but it wasn't quite global in effect. Turning Angel into Mad Max though, that's huge. Would have been very different than the usual Angel, that's for sure.

[Ravenbomb 0]

Doyle as a Big Bad? How weird would that have been?

Him being back at all would be good.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Who would play him though seeing as Glenn Quinn died.

[Guest Brian]

Maybe they would have done something like Jasmine? If he got sobered up and all, they could have brought him back in some capacity.

 

Which brings up the question: If they could have brought back Doyle, who's to say they wouldn't be able to bring back Wesley?

[Guest Brian]

The concept behind season 6 sounds really weird. Post-apocalyptic LA? How would that work? What about the scoobies?

The scoobies would probably be mighty pissed at Team Angel for what they sparked.

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Here's something from some convention about Angel's finale.

 

http://www.livejournal.com/users/redsrule1/

 

A couple interesting notes on who Hamilton represented...and an interesting Wesley/watcher point that could probably spark discussion.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

It was suggested that Angel HAD shansu’ed – through Connor

 

Wow that's deep.

[Anya 0]

Yeah, I like that.

 

 

Joss confirmed that Hamilton was supposed to represent the network suits.

 

 

Dumb.

 

 

 

An audience member brought up that Wesley’s role as a watcher came full circle with Illyria at the end

 

 

How?

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Wes was basically acting like a Watcher would with Illyria.

 

Teaching her things, patching her wounds, etc.

[Anya 0]

Eh, I didn't really get a watcher vibe. He wasn't teaching her how to fight or in a fatherly figure role like Giles. That sounds like making something of nothing, just to make a story deep.

 

 

A Spike/Illyria spin off would be ok. Better than Connor, Dawn, Faith or any other idea that's been tossed around(besides Xander and Andrew!). Illyria's speeches and long rants about being a god were extremely boring but she was decent as an Anya clone. Spike is always cool.

[Hank Kingsley 0]

I'm curious as to who wrote what for the finale.

 

(8) Although he was only speculating, Bianculli thought that Joss wrote the “last day” sequence as well as the final scene.

 

I don't think Joss wrote the last scene; Spike used the "wishes are horses" line, which Bell also wrote for his last episode, "The Cautionary Tale of Numero Cinco". Although I'm pretty sure Joss did write the last day scene, because at the Bronze Beta he said something like "I knew that Tim Conway line would come back to bite me in the ass" (Conway wasn't on the Carol Burnett show for the first episode, etc.)

[Anya 0]

I wish there was an extended edition showing all the missions. We don't see enough! What we do see looks really cool. Angel's final battle was sooo much better than Buffy's.

[Ripper 0]

Anyanaka, I clearly quoted you there from this thread.

 

Demonologist Schemonologist, he wasn't an asskickingologist or a lilahdressinguplikefredfuckingologlist or a whippingoutdoublegunsandthenashotgunonthemotherfuckingBEASTologist.

Nothing to add...just read that again.

[Mole 0]

It was suggested that Angel HAD shansu’ed – through Connor

 

Wow that's deep.

And makes perfect sense.

[Anakin Flair 0]

Seeing as the convention was linked, here is more on the Animated Buffy:

Buffy re-animated - The slayer returns in a cartoon series

 

From Bbc.co.uk - 2004-06-1st

 

We don’t know when. We don’t know how many episodes - but it looks like a Buffy Animated Series is happening.

 

A series was nearly made for Fox a few years ago and then parked. The man behind it, Jeph Loeb, went off to work for Smallville. Having heard rumours that the series may be on again, we caught up with Jeph to find out what’s going on.

 

What has happened to resurrect Buffy: Animated? Is a network backing it now?

 

Magic. No... honestly? We think that Fox became aware of this wonderful treasure and wanted to move forward again. As to where and when it will arrive... that part we’re holding as a secret for now.

 

Will the project continue where it left off?

 

Like any great Buffy story it’s all about resurrection. We have the same great crew, the same commitment from the actors and the same scripts we had in the drawer. It just needed the stake taken out of it so it could rise again.

 

Will you be in control of the project as before and, if so, how will this affect your Smallville role?

 

I return to season four of Smallville as the Supervising Producer. My role on Buffy Animated will be much as before because, as you all know, I spent a year and a half getting the show ready, it just wasn’t sent into production. Animation is unique really in that production is actually the final step.

 

How many of the original cast are likely to be on board?

 

We’re thrilled to have Alyson (Willow), Nick (Xander) and Tony (Giles) on board so far. There are still some surprises that we’ll talk about at a later date.

 

After the project stalled, artist Eric Wright revealed a lot of the proposed character designs on his website. Do you still plan on using him and his team to animate the project?

 

Well, it was actually Eric Radomski’s team (Batman Animated, Spawn) and Eric Wright did some of the key designs. Yes, much of that vision that was Radomski’s continues... only it’s better.

 

Radomski is in charge of the animation and as he proved with Batman and Spawn, Buffy will reinvent what can be done in animation again. Sometimes when you have two years away from something you can really see how to change it for the good.

 

I know you have some scripts, but will the Buffy writing team be involved in scripting the rest, now that they have moved to other projects?

 

We’ll drive off that bridge when we get there. We’ve got quite a few in the drawer. And, of course, we’ll hunt them all down again!

 

How involved is Joss likely to be, given that the Firefly movie begins shooting next week?

 

Don’t you know? Joss has cloned himself so he can take care of all parts of his empire. Trust us, there ain’t gonna be no Buffy Animated without Joss getting ink and paint all over his hands.

 

Jeph has promised to keep us informed as Buffy Animated progresses. In the meantime, you can follow the links to check out our Buffy ecomics section, or watch a recent video interview with Jeph regarding his work on Smallville.

[dubq 0]

The concept behind season 6 sounds really weird. Post-apocalyptic LA? How would that work? What about the scoobies?

Yes what about the scoobies? This is Angel season 6 we're talking about, not Buffy "season 8." Frankly, the less Andrew on my tv, the better.

[Guest Brian]

Eh, I didn't really get a watcher vibe. He wasn't teaching her how to fight or in a fatherly figure role like Giles. That sounds like making something of nothing, just to make a story deep.

Wesley was the one who cared for her, the one who tried to adapt her to the world, the one who gave her attention. Wes saved her from Angel wanting to get rid of her.

[Ripper 0]

Everything that Wes did with Ilyria was watcherific. Teaching her and learning the extent of her powers, the importance of good over evil, her place and job in the world, protecting her, nursing her when she was injured, even the nice little nod to sparing sessions(when he was observing her fighting spike). Wes always felt he failed as a watcher and Ilyria was his success.

 

...

 

 

Then he got stabbed to death.

 

 

...

[Guest reekspeak]

I don't get how Angel shansu’ed through Connor - isn't it an apocalypse thing? Something that has nothing to do with Connor.

[Ripper 0]

All the Shanshu said is that if he did his good deeds he would be given life. He would live. So, it COULD mean that the life he was given was his child.

[Guest reekspeak]

There's no apocalypse reference in Shanshu? Weird; because I feel like they put enthasis on it in later seasons.

 

Apocalypse or not, it makes sense to me now though, so thanks.

[Ripper 0]

There's no apocalypse reference in Shanshu? Weird; because I feel like they put enthasis on it in later seasons.

 

Apocalypse or not, it makes sense to me now though, so thanks.

No, the apocolypse thing was never there. It was more along the lines of if he performs enough deeds to redeem himself. then it was discovered that he would play a big role in this apocolypse. I guess he kinda figured that being the deciding factor in saving the world wasn't enough, then nothing would be.

 

And if you really think of it, Angel never really helped stop a apocolypse unless you count season 1 of Buffy. Besides that, he almost caused one (season 2) the Mayor wasn't really a apocolypse...just saved Sunnydale then, and stopped Jasmine who was going to bring world peace. Killing the Black Thorn, who were teh instruments required for the SP to get their apocolypse was his only apocolypse stoppage...or he started one by pissing them off...one of the two.

[Guest reekspeak]

I'd say the whole Beast ordeal would be classified as an Apocalypse. Though I guess Angelus gets credit for that.