The One and Only Angel Season 5 Thread

[Mole 0]

Good reads RRR.

[Guest wrestlingbs]

Badass Wes rules all. And to think he was created just to replace the "anal-retentive watcher" Giles had grown out of.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

#3 - Illyria

 

"Power" was an on-going theme in Angel Season 5. Infact, the whole premise was that Angel -finally- was given enough power to make the world a better place. He was in charge of one of the biggest law firms in the world. He had unlimited resources at his disposal. He had hundreds of employees working under him. He could fly across the world on a whim. He was given the power to really do anything. But what would happen if you lost that power.

 

That is what Illyria represents. She is lost power. She had an army at her disposal. She was feared and loved. She was worshipped by the worshipped. She "..walked worlds of smoke and half-truths, intangible. Worlds of torment, and of unnameable beauty. Opaline towers as high as small moons. Glaciers that rippled with incensing lust. -And one world with nothing but shrimp. I tired of that one quickly." And now she was next to nothing. She had enough power to bend, but not enough to break. She hated her circumstances and was stuck in it.

 

If Season 5 was about power, then it was also about fate, and the power to control your destiny. Illyria controlled her destiny, she arranged to come back after thousands of years so she could rule again, and took the "shell" of Fred to restore her empire. However, there were 2 victims of fate here and it wasn't just Mrs. Burkle who suffered. Illyria was alone in the world and struggled to find meaning. There is no greater theme in Angel, than that.

 

However, it is not just what Illyria represents that makes her a player. She was WONDERFULLY played by Amy Acker. And all I can say is "Who the fuck knew?". I liked Goofy Fred in Season 3, she was isolated and insecure and just so darn cute that I couldn't help but want her to last forever. But she didn't. Fred changed and matured and became more secure, and that's when the fun stopped. Her relationship with Gunn and her involvement in the love triangle and her knack for getting into trouble made her a semi-annoying character. I didn't "hate" her as if she was a "champion" who clearly wasn't and then "ascended" and then "fucked Connor" and then became "evil and sucky", but I certainly didn't relish the time she spent on screen. With Illyria, I did. I loved EVERY second she was on and wish to have seen that sixth season _just_ for that.

 

Amy did not just "play" Illyria, she BECAME Illyria. Her movements changed, her expressions changed, her voice -my god her voice!- changed. And SWEET POTATO PIE did she look good! The dialogue was fantastic...

 

"All I am is what I am. I lived 7 lives at once. I was power and the ecstasy of death. I was god to a god. Now...I--I'm trapped...on a roof. Just one roof....in this time and this place, with an unstable human who drinks too much whiskey and called me a smurf. (Wesley chuckles) You don't worship me at all, do you?"

 

... the action scenes were spectacular (the one in "Time Bomb" in particular wear she OBLITERATES the crew), and the final scene with Wesley -infact, EVERY scene with Wesley- was an absolute joy. I cannot imagine this show without Illyria, it was an upgrade for sure, and you damn well know she was a PLAYER to the fullest. Great addition. Great work.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

I'm kinda shocked Harmony is higher than Illyria and Spike on the Player's List. Not that Harmony doesn't rule (I loved Harm's Way), but better than the Ill one? That's crazy talk. Plus Illyria is much hotter than Harmony, and that's what matters.

[Guest Brian]

I don't get Sleeper. FE tries to get Spike and the vamps he sired in the basement to kill Buffy....yet at that point it shouldn't have wanted Buffy dead. That goes against it's slayer line plan they introduce just 2 eps later.

I always assumed the first wanted to either use it to drive a wedge between Spike and Buffy or get Spike killed, being the vampire with a soul.

[Max Danger 0]

I haven't watched "Sleeper" in awhile, but Spike was the one who told Buffy about the basement and the vampires he had sired. That wasn't apart of the FE's plan, for her to find out about it, but since she did, I just figure it decided to go with it and get Buffy out of the way.

 

Maybe doesn't make sense, but it definitely wasn't some sort of wedge driving device. But it probably hoped either Buffy or Spike or both would wind up dead.

 

I dunno. A lot of season seven doesn't make sense.

[Anakin Flair 0]

On one hand, I wish Joss had had a bigger hand in season 7. On the otehr, I'm glad he was doing Firefly. Such conflicting emotions!

[Max Danger 0]

I finally got season six of Buffy(obviously) on DVD the other night, and since I'm bored, I figured I'd bring up a few things. Bear in mind, while I've seen the entire season a few times, I've only just finished "Tabula Rasa" on the DVD.

 

1) Why would Giles leave at the beginning of the season? I don't want to say he has an obligation, but don't you think he'd feel like he should stick around and help look after Dawn? Her mother's dead, her sister's dead, and her dad is gone. That just seems odd to me. Sure, his slayer is dead, but he was more than just a Watcher. He was basically Buffy's father, and looked out for all of them.

 

2) OK, Buffy comes back and THEY EXPECT HER TO PAY THE BILLS? That's just idiotic. Oh, sure, I know you were dead and all, but here, pay these bills. Why didn't Willow and Tara, ya know, get jobs? They were living in her house for free. What would they have done had they not brought Buffy back?

 

3) I liked Anya's suggestion of charging for saving people's lives. I've seen that episode about six times and I never really caught it. But, ya know, that's exactly what Angel does. Spike even said a few of Angel's things "helping the helpess" in Tabula Rasa.

 

4) There is no number four.

 

5) Why would Giles leave again? How can they seriously expect Buffy to pay for EVERYTHING, and yes, that includes feeding Willow, too, and still fight the forces of evil? I know she needs to grow up, learn to be an adult, and all that sort of stuff, but Jesus, that's just rough.

 

6) And while I haven't gotten to those episodes yet, but how in the world was her job at the Doublemeat Palace enough to pay for everything? She'd start out at minimal wage and I doubt she was working full-time.

 

Sigh.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

I kinda wonder how Willow paid for school. And why didn't she live with her parents? Unlike some people, Willow's parents were still alive.

[BlackFlagg 0]

5)  Why would Giles leave again?  How can they seriously expect Buffy to pay for EVERYTHING, and yes, that includes feeding Willow, too, and still fight the forces of evil?  I know she needs to grow up, learn to be an adult, and all that sort of stuff, but Jesus, that's just rough.

 

His song in OMWF explained it pretty well, his being there was keeping her from doing what needed to be done. Anytime someting difficult came up she looked to him to solve it. He needed to leave to force her to stand on her own two feet.

 

6)  And while I haven't gotten to those episodes yet, but how in the world was her job at the Doublemeat Palace enough to pay for everything?  She'd start out at minimal wage and I doubt she was working full-time.

 

Well Giles did give her a nice fat check...they never showed how much it was for, but I'm assuming it was enough to pay off all the bills that had piled up and probably with a little more on the side...I'm sure Giles had a nice fat bank account between his half of the money made from the magic shop and his watchers salary as he was reinstated in season 4.

[BlackFlagg 0]

I kinda wonder how Willow paid for school. And why didn't she live with her parents? Unlike some people, Willow's parents were still alive.

Maybe her parents pay for it...or a scholarship.

 

As for why she didn't leave at home...you do remember her mother don't ya? I can see why she wouldn't wanna stay home...but even still, I'm sure she was at Buffy's to take care of Dawn and be with Tara as I'm sure living in your mother's house with your lesbian lover would be a bit awkward, heh.

[Anya 0]

Keep in mind Giles had been wanting to leave since as far back as early season 5.

[Ripper 0]

The second-longest active character on Angel, Harmony was introduced to us as a member of Cordys chick clique back in Season 1 Buffy.

Technically, wasn't she seen on screen before Angel was? I think she might be the longest running character on the show!!

 

In terms of the Buffyverse, Angel featured Angel and Harmony from year one, Spike from year two, Wes from year three, Gunn from Four, Loren from year five, Conner from year six, ....um...LOOK A BEAR... and Illeryia from season eight. They represented almost every year of the Buffyverse!

[Ripper 0]

Keep in mind Giles had been wanting to leave since as far back as early season 5.

He got the thought in his mind in season 4.

[Hank Kingsley 0]

1. The fight scene with THE BEAST is the best fight scene in Angel/Buffy history. Tell me ONE fight scene that was just as good? I will then watch it, and say you're wrong.

Well, obviously. You already have it in your mind that this is the best fight scene, so you'd think of some reason why it was better, even if it wasn't.

 

A,N isn't perfect; the scenes with Cordy and Connor (and not just the last scene; that's just the worst) are a drag. The scene in Connor's shack, the alley...it just drags along. Everything else is good, yes, but it's definitely not the best Angel episode.

 

...and Wes taking out the shotgun is one of your reasons? Wow. That's deep.

[Ripper 0]

1. The fight scene with THE BEAST is the best fight scene in Angel/Buffy history. Tell me ONE fight scene that was just as good? I will then watch it, and say you're wrong.

Well, obviously. You already have it in your mind that this is the best fight scene, so you'd think of some reason why it was better, even if it wasn't.

 

A,N isn't perfect; the scenes with Cordy and Connor (and not just the last scene; that's just the worst) are a drag. The scene in Connor's shack, the alley...it just drags along. Everything else is good, yes, but it's definitely not the best Angel episode.

 

...and Wes taking out the shotgun is one of your reasons? Wow. That's deep.

I will actually agree that it was the best fight scene...although Angel vs Spike from earlier this season for the cup of mountain do was one HELL of a fight that gives it a run for its money.

 

But A,N wasn't the best show of the shows history. This season alone had 7-8 eps that I would place above it. But in terms of best fights...I would go with it.

[Hank Kingsley 0]

Yeah, I'm not saying it wasn't the best fight, although I really liked the aforementioned Destiny fight, and going way back, Buffy/Angel from Becoming.

[Ripper 0]

Yeah, I'm not saying it wasn't the best fight, although I really liked the aforementioned Destiny fight, and going way back, Buffy/Angel from Becoming.

Eh, I didn't like a single fight on Buffy until season 3. watching Anne you can just tell they stepped up in the fight scene catagory.

 

The one in becoming kicked ass because of the emotional stuff though.

 

Oh, and I love the episode where Kendra first comes along and they are fighting in the church trying to stop Spike from makeing drusilla all strong again and Kendra does the WORST KIP-UP IN THE HISTORY OF FIGHTING. That shit is funny!!

 

I think the best fight scene in Buffy history would be in Bad Girls in the Winery with Caleb. The lines that Nathan was getting in that was wonderful.

 

Caleb: "The Slayer must indeed be powerful. (punches Buffy and sends her flying) So, what else you got?"

 

Caleb:: Well, you're the other one, aren't you? The Cain to her Abel? No offense meant to Cain, of course.

Faith:: Never was much for the good book.

Caleb:: Oh, it has its moments. Paul has some good stuff, for instance. But overall, I find it a tad complicated. I like to keep things simple. Good folk, bad folk, clean folk, dirty folk.

 

Caleb:: What can I say? I work in mysterious ways. Also some fairly straightforward ones.

 

Caleb: "Now it's a simple story -- stop me if you've heard it. I have found and truly believe that there's nothing so bad it cannot be made better with a story. And this one's got a happy ending. There once was a woman, and she was foul, like all women. For Adam's rib was dirty, just like Adam himself, for what was he but human? But this woman, she was filled... with darkness, despair, and why? Because she did not know. She could not see. She didn't know the good news, the glory that was coming. That'd be you. For the kingdom, the power and the glory are yours. Now and forever. You show up, they'll get in line. Because they followed her, now all they have to do is take one more step, and I'll kill them all. See? I told you it had a happy ending."

 

Plus he took Xanders eye.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I'm kinda shocked Harmony is higher than Illyria and Spike on the Player's List. Not that Harmony doesn't rule (I loved Harm's Way), but better than the Ill one? That's crazy talk. Plus Illyria is much hotter than Harmony, and that's what matters.

1. DO NOT QUESTION THE SANCTITY OF THE PLAYERS LIST!!!

 

2. When Illyria calls Lorne "Lorney Tunes" then she can rise above Harmony. Until then, refer to 1.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

#4 - Hamilton

 

 

Hamilton didn't last long, but he lasted long enough to make an impression. Sure, he was a blatent representation of a television executive, but he did one thing that television execs can't do: punch a hole through a security guards stomach. And with a grand sense of power and deadpan delivery, he punched a hole into our hearts.

 

"I gotta tell ya, I'm a little disappointed."

 

(punches her hard in the face, then in the stomach)

 

"Didn't think a big, scary old one bled this easily."

 

(as she doubles over in pain, he hits her hard in her back, knocking her to the ground)

 

"Maybe it's this skinny, little body you chose to infect."

 

(picks her up and punches her in the face)

 

"Or maybe it's that ray gun they shot you with to keep you from exploding."

 

(punches her in the face again)

 

"Or maybe..."

 

(punches her again)

 

"you're..."

 

(punches her again)

 

"just..."

 

(punches her again)

 

"not...that... "

 

(punches her again)

 

"cool!"

 

(lets her drop to the ground, unconscious and bloody)

 

"Yes, that's probably it."

 

(steps on her face)

 

It was a brutal scene which showed the true strength of Hamilton as well as a certain viciousness. There was a touch of anger there; resentment. It wasn't all business for him, however, for the most part, it was.

 

I loved the simplicity of the character and how Baldwin portrayed it. He didn't do anything special, he just played it straight and stoic. After coming off Jayne, I didn't know how he would approach it, but he did it to perfection. He hit all the right notes and I'm just sad he couldn't get more time.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

#5 - Spike

 

 

A controversial pick -not because he's on the list, but rather, because he's not in the top 3- Spike indeed deserves recognition as a PLAYER. Personally, I don't think Spike belongs on Angel. I love the character, but I didn't think the show needed him for Season 5. And despite providing tons of laughs and sometimes some very dark drama, I still think that's the case. I think too much attention was given to him and not enough put on the long-time Angel characters and even on Angel himself. I didn't like when he beat Angel for the cup, and I didn't like the fact that he didn't abuse the young slayer. So that's why he's #5; they just should have called the show "Spike" cause that's how it seemed at times, and I want to watch "Angel".

 

With that said, I still loved Spike on the show.

 

I don't even know where to begin, really. I couldn't possibly pick the best quote, because there are way too many to choose from. The ones that stick out at the moment are him saying "You'll never take me Pavayne!" when the lights flicker out, and the "Astronauts/Cavement" argument. He says it all with such conviction; this is a man who truly puts 100% into his character.

 

James Marsters is 1 of the Big 3, IMO. In the Whedonverse of Firefly, Angel, and Buffy, there are 3 actors who just make me believe. The other two are Nathan Fillion and Alexis Denisov. They can do it all - drama, action, comedy - everything. They can convey a dozen emotions into a one minute piece and make you believe that every single one of those emotions are real. Masters, in particular, does it so well that it's a shame he'll never be recognized for his efforts.

 

Though his character peaked in Season 5 Buffy, he was able to still bring life to Spike in Season 5 Angel as the foil to our Hero. Infact, the best moments of the show involved Spike and Angel relentlessly arguing over the littlest of things...

 

SPIKE

It's bollocks, Angel! It's your brand of bollocks from the first to last.

 

ANGEL

No, you can't ever see the big picture. You can't see any picture!

 

SPIKE

I am talking about something primal. Right? Savagery. Brutal animal instinct.

 

ANGEL

And that wins out every time with you.

(in Spike's face)

You know, the human race has evolved, Spike!

(walks away from Spike)

 

SPIKE

(follows Angel making mocking gestures)

Oh, into a bunch of namby-pamby, self-analyzing wankers who could never hope to—

 

ANGEL

We're bigger. We're smarter. Plus, there's a thing called teamwork, not to mention the superstitious terror of your pure aggressors!

 

SPIKE

You just want it to be the way you want it to be.

 

ANGEL

(yelling)

It's not about what I want!

 

WESLEY

(walks up to the office door)

Sorry. Is this something we should all be discussing?

 

ANGEL

(embarrassed to be caught by Wes, backs away from Spike)

No.

 

WESLEY

It just...sounds a little serious.

 

ANGEL

It was mostly...theoretical. We...

 

SPIKE

(calmly)

We were just working out a b—

(passionate again)

Look, if cavemen and astronauts got into a fight, who would win?

(crosses his arms and looks expectantly at Wes)

 

WESLEY

Ah. You've been yelling at each other for 40 minutes about this?

(Angel looks down, Spike stares at Wes, still expecting an answer)

(looks pensive, crosses his arms)

Do the astronauts have weapons?

 

ANGEL & SPIKE

(simultaneously)

No.

 

I may not have wanted Spike to join the cast of Angel, but I do not regret the decision. With brilliant comedic timing, a knack for the dramatic, and an ability to make it all seem so real, Spike was a PLAYER in Season 5.

[Guest Brian]

I loved Spike beating Angel for the cup. It showed that Spike had grown from this guy that was tagging along with Angellus. It threw a rut in the Shanshu. And Spike deserved something for saving the world.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

FUCK Spike. The shows called "Angel", Angel is the motherfucking Hero, Angel should be owning, OWNING, PWN1N6!!!1 Spike.

 

...though Spike stabbing Angel through the chest in HITW was fanTURSTIC.

[Guest Brian]

No, fuck you Rudo. Spike rules. He RULZ~! You can only speak of Spike with a tilda and exclamation mark from here on.

 

SPIKE~!

[Ripper 0]

FUCK Spike.  The shows called "Angel", Angel is the motherfucking Hero, Angel should be owning, OWNING, PWN1N6!!!1 Spike.

 

...though SPIKE~! stabbing Angel through the chest in HITW was fanTURSTIC.

You claim to be a Whedon fan and want things to be cut and fucking dry....for shame.

 

I loved LOVED SPIKE~! beating Angel for the cup. I loved Marsters on the show. And honestly, he got what 4-5 shows out of 22 that focused on him. Gun, Wes, Fred all got more and Angel...of course, had the bulk of them.

 

The show might have been called ANGEL but it was a ensemble show.

 

 

damn you.

 

edited for ~!-ness.

[Guest Brian]

Edit your post now Ripper!!

 

Spike(tilda)(exclamation point)

Spike~!

[BlackFlagg 0]

SPIKE~!~!

 

WILLIAM THE MUTHAFUGGIN BLOODY~!~!

 

RECOGNIZE~!

[Guest Brian]

We're about 37 pages ahead of the Buffy thread. Can me make 200?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I WILL FUCKING TAKE ALL OF YOUZE ON!

 

Spike__ is nothing but LACKEY for Angel. He didn't deserve to whoop Angels ass and he SUXZ.

[Ripper 0]

I WILL FUCKING TAKE ALL OF YOUZE ON!

 

SPIKE~! is nothing but LACKEY for Angel. He didn't deserve to whoop Angels ass and he SUXZ.

Did Angel ever rhyme something with the word "effulgent". Well. DID HE!!!!!