The One and Only Angel Season 5 Thread

[Guest Brian]

I love it. It's that moral ambiguos world of Angel, where evil is not just a persified, but rather a series of choices. And Wolfram and Hart chose to save the world. They didn't send the FE away, they just merely stopped it. So beautiful to see a "lesser of two evil" story.

[Anya 0]

Except that's just your speculation. We really don't know what they intended or planned to happen.

[Guest Brian]

I like episode six. It's strange, it really feels like a Joss show. And Lorne's appearance was very cool.

Thank you. That's what I was aiming for. I really wanted to open the door to Connor's past, and that Holtz stuff was aimed to do that.

 

I'm glad you liked the Lorne stuff. It just sort of came to me that I didn't really have something to get from point A to point B in the story.

[Mole 0]

Um, how is that speculation?

 

Lilah, working for W&H, gave Angel the amulet. Angel gave it to Buffy, who gave it to Spike, which saved the world.

 

That was planned.

[Guest Brian]

They probably expected Angel to fulfill his obligations to the prophesy, by playing his part in the apocalypse, thus ridding Wolfram and Hart of two problems. But even if they knew that Spike would take it, then they also knew that the necklace would serve to stop FE's apocalypse, which wasn't the one they had scheduled.

[Anya 0]

Did it ever specifically say what they had planned? No. It's speculation.

 

 

There's too much mystery around it. Who was it meant for? Was lindsay responsible for them getting it or did he just dig it out of the ground? Did W&H want Angel to become a ghost?

 

 

I don't like that such a major thing is left open like that.

[Mole 0]

Then you must hate "Memento."

[Guest Brian]

Why would Lindsay be responsible for it?

[Anya 0]

Never seen it.

 

 

Watching Home, the vibe I get is the W&H actually doesn't really care about FE's apocalypse at all. It doesn't seem to be a priority. If they wanted to stop FE wouldn't they plant it in SD to make SURE Buffy gets it? All they do is just casually bring it up as part of the deal to become CEO. If they were actually worried about the end of the world surely they wouldn't risk it with messing with Angel. It's not even clear if they know what it does. All Lilah says is that it's "apparently crucial" and Angel says the translation is confusing.

 

 

I think W&H had it stored somewhere and just used it as a bargaining chip to get Angel to join them.

[Guest Brian]

They didn't need it as a bargaining chip. Thye gave Connor a new life, erased everyone's memory, and took care of Cordy as best they could. They didn't need to use it. Lilah threw it out there because the Senior Partners knew Angel would do the right thing, that he'd give it to Buffy who'd give it to Spike.

 

Lindsay doesn't even enter the equation.

[Anya 0]

The idea that they "knew" Angel would take it to Buffy who would then give it to Spike is such a stretch. Come on....that's just plain goofy. What a coincidence it all just happened to work out ok.

 

Again, if the plan was to prevent FE from taking over the world why go through so much risk when they could have just gave it to Buffy somehow themselves? It makes no sense that they would just "know" it would end up on Spike.

 

Also, they didn't just flat out offer the Connor thing. They first tried to sell to them that they could use W&H for good and all that and the amulet thing. In fact it's implied they didn't actually offer Connor's new life at all, that it was ANGEL's idea. He gets in her face and says "Let ME tell you what the deal is going to be!"

 

 

It makes a LOT more sense that the amulet was just part of the deal than to say they somehow knew it would kill the ubies and just knew it would reach Spike.

 

 

lindsay obviously enters into the issue at some point.

[Mole 0]

I'm not even going to bother arguing with you Anya, you're too damn stubborn. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

[AnonymousBroccoli 0]

I watched Hero on Space tonight. I'm kind of surprised that Doyle only hit 9 episodes. For some reason, it seems like he had a more significant impact on the series than that. Also funny that Cordelia makes reference to using "one of the cheaper Baldwins" in a commercial for the business.

 

I like the Connor episodes so far. I thought it was funny that Rudo stuck Ron Glass in his episode, and didn't even bother to name him otherwise. It was just "Ron Glass".

 

It's a little late to mention now, but for a line in the first episode, where Kent is talking to Connor about The Powers That Be for the first time, you could have him reply with "The powers that be what?", as a little nod to Angel's initial reaction from City Of.

 

Finally, the material of whatever the girl in Mole's sig is on looks strangely like that of my chair and couch.

[Mole 0]

Ashlee Simpson was at your house???

[Anya 0]

Doyle is really cute, though not as much as Wes. I wish Cordy had died and they just had the cutie trio of Angel, Doyle and Wes.

[Angelus 0]

After watching season 4 of Buffy all week long ... I 'm just wondering, who would win a fight between Gunn & Riley ?

[LaParkaMarka 0]

Well, they're both just regular guys now. I prefer Gunn, because he's about a million zillion times cooler than Riley.

[Guest Brian]

The idea that they "knew" Angel would take it to Buffy who would then give it to Spike is such a stretch. Come on....that's just plain goofy. What a coincidence it all just happened to work out ok.

 

Again, if the plan was to prevent FE from taking over the world why go through so much risk when they could have just gave it to Buffy somehow themselves? It makes no sense that they would just "know" it would end up on Spike.

 

Also, they didn't just flat out offer the Connor thing. They first tried to sell to them that they could use W&H for good and all that and the amulet thing. In fact it's implied they didn't actually offer Connor's new life at all, that it was ANGEL's idea. He gets in her face and says "Let ME tell you what the deal is going to be!"

 

 

It makes a LOT more sense that the amulet was just part of the deal than to say they somehow knew it would kill the ubies and just knew it would reach Spike.

 

 

lindsay obviously enters into the issue at some point.

You've got to remember than Wolfram and Hart was pretty inactive for most of the year. And I also think you're underestimating thme too.

 

After their LA offices were destroyed, they knew at that point which direction they would be moving. So they went after Angel, in a big coup. That was almost four months to prepare all the bargaining chips. Sure, it wasn't what ultimately went into the decision.

 

As well, it should be noted, that they probably knew some, if not all, of the capabilities of the amulet. This is Wolfram and Hart we're talking about. They knew who it could be used for, a champion which was stronger than human. Not much in the way of choices there. And further, I think that they knew that Buffy was going to take things from Angel, that she had in reality moved on, and that she wasn't going to put him through that. Spike, they may or may not have counted on, but that seemed rather inconsequential, since their numero uno task was to stop the apocalypse_that_wasn't_theirs.

 

And as for Lindsay, he was two years past working for Wolfram and Hart, and probably somewhat on the run trying to stay under their radar. I seriously doubt they figured he would come to salvage the amulet. I don't see where he would enter into anything.

 

 

Hey La Parka, did you like the ending to my ep?

[Mole 0]

After watching season 4 of Buffy all week long ... I 'm just wondering, who would win a fight between Gunn & Riley ?

Gunn.

 

And that is the coolest member name, next to mine.

[Guest Brian]

Gunn. Gunn was cooler.

[Anya 0]

since their numero uno task was to stop the apocalypse_that_wasn't_theirs.

 

 

Except that was never said. In fact in the past we've seen with a little negotiating they'd be fine with someone else's.

 

In the ep it appears their numero uno task was to get Angel on their side and the amulet wasn't really all that big of a deal.

 

 

 

Riley would beat Gunn. Gunn is a street fighter, Riley is a highly trained elite soldier. If weapons are allowed it goes for Riley even more.

 

Riley is cooler than Gunn too.

[Mole 0]

WHAT??????????????? RILEY COOLER THAN GUNN?

 

God, now you are just being silly.

[Guest Brian]

Except that was never said. In fact in the past we've seen with a little negotiating they'd be fine with someone else's.

Like what? Are we talking about Manners and/or Lilah, or are we talking about a big pass like the Senior Partners? Because that was the big difference here, as I see it. The Senior Partner put everything and anything on the table, knowing they could get Angel, and after that they were going to make sure FE's apocalypse got through.

 

And Gunn would have whooped country boy.

[Anya 0]

Ive said before I like Riley.

 

 

when the Beast was taking over the world Lilah said the senior partners wanted to talk with him about working together.

 

Also if they were so bent on stopping FE they would have told Lilah to be a little bit more serious about it than to just offer it like that.

[LaParkaMarka 0]

Psh. When Riley was captain super-soldier, he thought killing 9 vamps was impressive. Gunn could kill 9 vamps in his sleep. And still have time to nail a skinny white chick.

[Anya 0]

Yeah but like Andrew can kill vamps.

 

Riley fought to a draw with Angel.

[Guest Brian]

That was the Senior Partner's trying to get a stake in that apocalypse, which they couldn't do with the FE. Plus, they were thnking along the lines that the Beast was just raising mayhem, not realizing it had its own agenda.

 

LILAH

I'll tell you why. Because he can. It's the 800 pound gorilla—it can do whatever the hell it wants. I get that. But other than charbroiling everything in sight, I don't think it has an agenda.

[Anya 0]

We dont know if FE would work with SP nor do we know if FE had a plan outside tip the scales.

[Guest Brian]

They're plan was to put the amulet in play through Angel. They had to keep evil from becoming corporeal or else they would lose their monopoly on it.

 

I'm reading through the Angellus arc in Season 4 and there's some awesome stuff in there. Fuck, Angellus is such a great character.Awakening is such an awesome episode. And in "Soulless he takes a nice little jab at Wes and his paternal relationship when talking about a Wyndam-Price worthy question, like it was his father's standards at not his. Beast as the big bad all season would have been so freaking great.

[Anya 0]

Why would they lose anything if FE was corporeal? We know like zero about what FE was going to do. FE itself doesn't even seem to know what's going to happen if it wins.

 

 

Awakening is incredible.