The One and Only Angel Season 5 Thread

[SuperJerk 0]

She is good at heart and is not in hell.

Hmmm...

 

-Chose to be a demon, twice.

-Slaughter thousands.

-Was greedy and cowardly as a human (although she did save the lives of Xander and Andrew).

 

I'm not seeing it.

[Anya 0]

Both times she made the choice to be a demon it was immediatly after she had been emotionally crushed by men. You could actually say D'Hoffryn takes advantage of her.

 

She killed people because it was her job. Unlike Spike and Angel it wasn't done to be evil, it was her occupation. She felt it was the only thing she was good at and that the men deserved it. In her mind she was providing justice(and in many cases probably actually was). Besides, she should be judged by her actions as a human, not a demon.

 

Her greed comes from her being new to money. She had never had a need for it before and she found it fascinating and exciting.

 

She is not a "coward", she is just over protective of herself. It's only natural when you consider she is newly mortal. The idea of dying is extremely frightning to her. Even simple injuries are scary to someone who has been immortal and invincible for 1,000 years. Also she supports warriors who frequently engage in combat with very powerful beings. She can't hang with those people so of course she has to hide and stuff. However when the time does come she has picked up the sword before. Look at Chosen. She helps out Andrew and even takes out two ubies.

 

Also, you can't fault her for being rude or greedy or any of her other social problems. You have to remember that while she has the body of an adult her maturity is that of a child. She's only lived in our world for a few years. She grew up 1,000 years ago and has been away from society up until recently. She doesn't know our customs and rules. It's not that she is a bitch or stupid, it's just that she doesn't understand. When she says mean things she doesn't mean to hurt the other person's feelings. You can tell she tries hard, sometimes even too hard, to fit in and talk like others.

 

 

 

There's no way you can look at her during the prime of the Xanya ship and tell me she isn't a good person. Xander would not love someone who is evil.

 

 

[Guest Brian]

Connor, Episode 10, Darwinism

 

Scene 1:

 

<The Los Angeles streets at night. Very little light permeates. Debris is scattered, building are crumbling. A very loud, group of shrill, screams, and barks are heard.>

 

<Cut to Connor, in the sewers listening to the echoes of the voices from the streets. Kent approaches.>

 

Connor: They’re really riled up out there. I’ve never heard them like this. So much noise and pain.

 

Kent: I wonder what’s happening.

 

Connor: So do I. There aren’t a lot of things that can get these animals worked up like this. Where’s Eliana?

 

Kent: She’s asleep. We have to get started early tomorrow. We need to get some sleep soon.

 

Connor: You can go ahead. The noises are going to keep me up.

 

Kent: It’s not the night to go out and hunt.

 

Connor: I don’t plan on it. But I want to get a better idea of what’s happening. I need to hear their voices. They all seem so afraid.

 

Kent: Early start tomorrow. Sun up and we’re out.

 

<Kent walks away from Connor as he stares out the tunnel, listening as the sounds continue.>

 

Connor: I wonder what they could be afraid of.

 

<Cut to the three members of the Order of Soraska. They’re lying in the ground of the warehouse, blood running from their bodies into puddles on the ground, as well as soaking into their robes. They’re bodies have fallen around three triangles inscribed in a circle, the same sign as at the end of last episode. Cut to black.>

 

Scene 2:

 

<Connor is crouched and huddled in a corner by the tunnel, asleep. As Kent approaches, Connor wakes and whips out a stake. Kent jumps back.>

 

Kent: You don’t look very good.

 

Connor: Had a hard time sleeping. The noises outside were too loud. It reminded me of the first night.

 

Kent: What time did they stop?

 

Connor: Just a few hours ago, they started tailing off.

 

<Connor rises and walks over to the weapons.>

 

Kent: So the tables have been turned. They no longer have a monopoly on fear.

 

Connor: Less killing on my part.

 

Kent: So you’re not worried about what’s behind all this?

 

Connor: Why should I be? Suddenly, I’ve been given responsibility for this city and you expect me to care about how things get done. I’m knee deep in trouble and I’m trying to crawl out. Whoever is doing this is lending me a hand. It may be the best chance I get out here.

 

Kent: And you don’t wonder how or why it’s getting done now?

 

Connor: You don’t understand what it’s like to work out there, with all that responsibility and power. You can’t comprehend what I have to do, what I’m supposed to do.

 

Kent: We all have crosses to bear.

 

Connor: And mine just happens to be a whole lot heavier.

 

<Cut to Connor and Kent leaving through an opening in the sewer tunnels at the beach. It’s still dark outside. A man turns a corner in front of the of the sewer tunnel. Suddenly, Connor grabs him by the neck and raises him against the tunnel.>

 

Vampire: Hey, hey. That’s no way to treat one of your own. We should be sticking together in these types of situations. Besides, it’s nearly sunlight and neither one of us needs to work on our tan.

 

<Connor punches the man with his left hand, causing him to vamp out.>

 

Connor: I guess I’m not one of you.

 

<The man shakes his head, un-vamping. He smiles.>

 

Vampire: No harm, no foul. You just have a very strong scent, and I thought that you might be, well, you know. My mistake.

 

Connor: Yes, it is.

 

<Connor pulls out a stake and raises his left hand, but Kent grabs it.>

 

Kent: Connor, no.

 

<The vampire looks over at Kent, staring with a smile on his face.>

 

Vampire: Haven’t seen one of you in a while.

 

Kent: I could say the same of your kind. Especially above ground. You guys really lost out up here. You used to be kings around here, eating as you pleased, first-rate demons. Now you’re just trash, bottom feeders.

 

Vampire: Situations change. Survival of the fittest out there. Besides, the danger is further apart.

 

Kent: What do you mean?

 

<The vampire’s skin begins to burn.>

 

Vamp: Find out for yourself.

 

<The vampire breaks Connor’s grip and scurries into the sewer. Connor gives chase but Kent stops him.>

 

Kent: It’s not worth it.

 

Connor: He called me a vampire.

 

Kent: There are worse things out here right now.

 

<Kent and Connor come up over the boardwalk to discover a path of slaughtered demons, stretching as far as the eye can see.>

 

Scene 3:

 

<Kent and Connor are standing before a street of fallen demons. Kent bends down, feeling the skin against his backhand.>

 

Kent: They’re cold.

 

Connor: Impressive.

 

Kent: Whoever did this was very powerful. It almost seems staged.

 

Connor: They’re good.

 

Kent: You’re not the least bit worried about who did this or why they did?

 

Connor: Do we need to go through this again? I have a duty, and they’re doing it for me. A kill is a kill.

 

Kent: It’s not that simple, Connor. We don’t know what scared these things, or what killed them. Whatever it was had strength and power beyond your abilities.

 

Connor: As far as I can see, it’s less worrying for me.

 

<Kent stares for a moment at Connor, who’s got a slight smile on his face as he’s gazing up the street.>

 

Kent: Why don’t you head back down to through the pipes and hang out with Eliana.

 

Connor: Are you going to be okay?

 

Kent: There isn’t much for me to worry about up here anymore, is there?

 

Connor: Have it your way.

 

<Camera view changes to an overhead shot, as if someone is watching. Connor heads back through the sewer pipe. Kent continues to walk on.>

 

<Cut to the vampire in the sewer. He peers in on Eliana, who is listening to a walkman and drawing. Suddenly, Connor grabs him by the throat and holds him up against the sewer wall.>

 

Vampire: Well, you again.

 

Connor: Tell me more.

 

Vampire: Or what. You’re going to kill me. We already went through this, and I can tell you don’t have any self-control. You can’t reassure me that I’m going to benefit from giving you info. How about some leverage; fresh meat, the girl.

 

<Connor brings his left forearm, stake in hand, across the vampire’s throat. The vampire vamps out>

 

Connor: Let’s try this again.

 

<Vampire begins laughing.>

 

<Camera cuts to Eliana, who’s humming along to her music.>

 

Vampire: Boy, you are thick.

 

Connor: Tell me what you saw out there. What did this?

 

Vampire: All I saw was death. The same as you.

 

<The vampire suddenly pushes Connor’s arm up, and gives him a right cross on the chin.>

 

<Cut to Eliana, who’s singing to her music.>

 

<Connor and the vampire are standing away, circling each other. Connor swings the stake like an ice pick, but the vampire ducks. The vampire catches his hand and breaks the hold on the stakes. The vampire tries to flip Connor with the wristlock but Connor somersaults, grabbing both hands and going for a flip of his own. The vampire cartwheels and breaks Connor’s lock, interlocking their fingers together. Connor headbutts once, but the vampire hits a front kick to the midsection and as Connor fall forward a knee to the head, sending him flailing backwards. Connor lands on his back as the vampire straddles him.>

 

Connor: Eliana!

 

<Eliana is still seen drawing and singing along to her music.>

 

<The vampire leans in to bite but Connor pushes his arms and upperbody off. The vampire tries to push in but Connor crosses his arms, giving himself some distance. Connor kicks his legs up and tries to flip him over his head in fron of the vampire’s throat, but the vampire comes up and tries to reverse directions. Connor goes with the flow and uses the vampire’s weight to bring them both to a standing position. Connor kicks up the stake and catches it in his teeth. The vamp hits two kicks to each side of his midsection, as Connor’s teeth dig into his stake. Connor jumps and spins, sending the vamp into the wall. Connor and the vampire are within inches of each other. Connor smiles, dropping the stake out of his mouth, leaning into the vampire. The vampire crumbles into dust, as Connor falls into the wall.>

 

<Eliana pulls down her headphones, and turns her head.>

 

Eliana: Connor, is that you?

 

<Cut to the inside of a warehouse. Suddenly the wood door is kicked in. Kent emerges from the shadows. He looks down and stops cold in his steps. The camera pans back to show the three members of the Order of Soraska, slumped dead around the symbol. The camera cuts to above.>

 

Scene 4:

 

<Kent has arranged all the members of the Order of Soraska in a row, away from the symbol so he can get a clear view. He pulls out a piece of paper and copies down the symbol.>

 

Kent: This symbol. I know I’ve seen it somewhere before.

 

<Kent bends down and takes a look at the member’s faces.>

 

Kent: Whatever did this was very powerful.

 

<Kent pulls back the hood of one of the robed figures. He examines the other two, then pulls down the others hood.>

 

Kent: Odd. They looked the same with the hood on.

 

<He copies down the symbols on the paper.>

 

Kent: Writing is close to Early Sumerian. Two verbs and a noun.

 

<Kent hears a sound and turns his head.>

 

Kent: This place is starting to give me the creeps.

 

<Kent packs up and leaves the warehouse. The camera looks on from above.>

 

<Cut to Connor and Eliana in their lair. Connor puts the stake away in a holder on a belt and turns back to Eliana.>

 

Connor: You really couldn’t hear a thing?

 

Eliana: I didn’t expect anything to come through. I mean, you guys left me home for a reason, right?

 

Connor: Well, home’s obviously not safe anymore. I don’t know what is right now. The carnage on the streets is demon’s blood.

 

Eliana: I can help you fight. I did help kill that demon.

 

Connor: It’s not that easy.

 

Eliana: But I’m getting better at it. And I’m a part of it.

 

Connor: Killing, fighting, it’s not just a game. Once you get into it, you can’t get out of it. Until it kills you.

 

Eliana: Who says I want to get out of it?

 

Connor: I say that myself every day.

 

<Connor turns his back to Eliana, putting on the belt and strapping on his stake shooter. Eliana walks up and grabs the crossbow. There is an uneasy silence between the two.>

 

<Cut to Ronin, sitting in his apartment. He’s sitting on his knees, eating a bowl of ramen with chopsticks and slurping it up. Suddenly, the door swings open violently. Ronin swings around to a standing position, now clutching the chopsticks separately between his pinkie and ring fingers, and his middle and pointer fingers. He throws a right jab but it’s caught by the wrist, and he gets an elbow to the face. He drops the chopsticks. Kent walks forward.>

 

Kent: I forgot to thank you for hanging out with Connor the other day.

 

Scene 5:

 

<Kent and Ronin are sitting at the table together, both with a bowl in front of them.>

 

Kent: So you weren’t behind that string of killings outside?

 

Ronin: No, but I wouldn’t mind if I was.

 

Kent: You’re talking exactly like him.

 

<Ronin gets up and pours sake into two small wood box-shaped cups.>

 

Ronin: We’re in the same business, you know. It’s our job to go out and fight and protect. <pauses> Did it look like my work?

 

Kent: No, too clean. You couldn’t pull this off.

 

Ronin: I’ll slice off your head if you insult me again.

 

Kent: Don’t waste my time.

 

<Ronin clinches his chopsticks in his right hand.>

 

Ronin: Continue your questions.

 

Kent: Do you have any idea what’s going on outside?

 

Ronin: Something new is in town, and it’s getting the job done. These demons are running scared.

 

<Kent pulls a piece of paper from his pocket. He unfolds it and hands it over to the samurai. Ronin looks it over and hands it back.>

 

Kent: Do you recognize any of those symbols?

 

Ronin: Should I?

 

Kent: I see my expectations were set much too high. I can see that I’m wasting my time here.

 

Ronin: Would you like my help?

 

Kent: I’m not sure if you can help when it comes to something like this.

 

<Kent gets up and walks through the door.>

 

<Cut to Connor, who is walking through the sewers with Eliana.>

 

Eliana: Would you really give up your power if you could?

 

Connor: If it was an option, I would. But it isn’t an option, especially now. There’s so much that comes with what I am, that I don’t understand. I’m not even sure what I am.

 

Eliana: Does that even matter. The killing is what empowers you, gives you strength. I felt it the other night.

 

Connor: The fighting is what gives you strength. People fight everyday. The killing is a weakness, it reduces you to a beast. Look at what happened to me.

 

<Connor turns the corner and bumps into a demon, white skinned and large with spike hanging around his mouth that looks like a facemask. He has a bumpy forehead.>

 

Connor: Didn’t expect to see one of you underground. Scared of something?

 

Demon: Definitely not afraid of you.

 

<The demon whips its arm and Connor ducks. Connor hits two shots to the gut but the demon fails to flinch. It backhands Connor sending him across the room. He heads straight at Eliana, who tries to get her crossbow up. The demon knocks it down. He grabs her by the hair.>

 

Demon: Killing isn’t so easy is it little girl.

 

<Connor punches the demon in the face, knocking it down.>

 

Connor: Well, for some of us, it comes naturally.

 

<Cut to Kent, who arrives in the lair and pulls out a book. He unfolds the paper from his pocket. He sits down at his desk staring at the paper. He begins to work on the translation of the symbols.>

 

<Cut back to Connor and the demon, who are trading punches. Connor goes for a spin kick but the demon blocks and hooks Connor in the ribs. Connor tries a punch but the demon hits a clothesline. Eliana runs over but gets knocked down. Connor kips up and tries a punch but gets a double-handed chokehold, with the demon holding him a foot above the ground.>

 

Scene 6:

 

<Connor is struggling with the demon, who is still hanging him above the ground. Connor tries to kick away at the midsection but the demon barely flinches. Connor punches but the demon does nothing. Connor grabs his head and pulls him in, and delivers a headbutt. He does a dropkick to the chest, causing the demon to release Connor. Connor reaches for the crossbow and shoots, missing the demon but giving him the chance to struggle up. Connor swings the crossbow at the demon, causing it to wince. It hits the crossbow out of Connor’s hand. The demon attacks, but Connor blocks two punches and hits a front kick. Connor runs and hits a sidekick, sending the demon against the sewer wall. The demon tries a punch but Connor catches, twisting the arm. He delivers a clothesline, sending the demon to the ground. Connor kneels by it, nearly in a mount, and gives it a punch to the face. The demon begins laughing hysterically, then settles down to speak.>

 

Demon: You can kill me. You can kill all of us. But what’s here right now, what’s coming to get you, you won’t be able to take it. You think you’ve seen evil out here, you think things are bad. The party is just starting for you.

 

Connor: What’s coming?

 

Demon: Death.

 

Connor: Only for you.

 

<Connor reaches down with the other hand and snaps the neck of the demon. He helps Eliana get up.>

 

Connor: Not so easy is it?

 

<Fade out on Connor and Eliana with the camera shooting from overhead.>

 

<Kent is sitting at the desk, with his books open and a piece of paper he used to write down the symbols. Under two of the symbols, he has the words “death” and “will” written under them. He turns to a page in the book, and then stops. He writes under the third symbol “fall”. He looks at the page, the completed phrase, then crosses out “fall” and replaces it with “Rise”. At the bottom of the sheet, he writes “DEATH WILL RISE”.>

[Ravenbomb 0]

She is good at heart and is not in hell.

Angel is good at heart and he's going to hell. No matter what you say, there's no reason for her to go to heaven if Angel and Spike are going to hell.

[Guest Brian]

Besides, when those guys go to hell they'll suffer with their souls, which had no part in their prior action.

[Anya 0]

They're demons and were EVIL. She is a human and was just confused.

[Guest Brian]

I figure once you get past a hundred or so years, the confusion melts away. As for Spike and Angel, with their souls, they are completely different and don't deserve the punishment their demon-selves do. Anya is still Anyanka, just without the power, and she made the choice both times.

[Anya 0]

She was too obsessed with providing justice to scorned women to realize it was wrong. Look at her in the flashbacks in selfless. She is consumed with her role.

 

Also, looking at those you can't say they are the same person. Once she found love and what humanity was about she changed into a totally different person.

 

 

We don't even know the status of her soul with the demon thing. She could have lost it and got it back or something. It's too unclear to make any judgments.

 

 

 

 

Spike and Angel are going to hell because they're all emo and angst ridden and have to have something to brood about. Anya wouldn't put up with that crap. If she saw she was going to hell she'd start bitching and complaining until she got sent to heaven.

[Ravenbomb 0]

I think Spike would beat up emos

[Anya 0]

That's because Spike is a violent evil man who does horrible things to innocent people. He should really try to be more like Anya.

[SuperJerk 0]

She killed people because it was her job. Unlike Spike and Angel it wasn't done to be evil, it was her occupation. She felt it was the only thing she was good at and that the men deserved it. In her mind she was providing justice(and in many cases probably actually was). Besides, she should be judged by her actions as a human, not a demon.

 

She is not a "coward", she is just over protective of herself. The idea of dying is extremely frightning to her.

You'd have made an excellent defense lawyer for Hitler.

 

 

Xander would not love someone who is evil.

 

The same could be said for Eva Braun.

[Ravenbomb 0]

That's because Spike is a violent evil man who does horrible things to innocent people. He should really try to be more like Anya.

He WAS all that stuff. Then he got the chip, then later the soul.

[Youth N Asia 0]

And before all of that he was as pussy of a human as there ever was one.

[Anya 0]

Spike needed two things, a chip and a soul, to turn good. Anya just needed to lose her powers. Once she got the chance to be good she took it.

 

 

 

Look! It's a Champion! A heavenly champion.

[Tawren 0]

To change the subject a bit, I turned on the TV earlier and it was on a movie called I'll Be There from 2003. It starred Drew Carey's boss from the Drew Carey Show, and Anthony Stewart Head had a small part (from what I saw) as a sleazy talent manager. So different from Giles.

 

Anyone ever see a Buffy/Angel actor and be surprised at how different their characters are and how well they play it?

[Anya 0]

Nick Brendon being an alcoholic is traumatizing.

 

I can't bear to think of the actors as being different from their characters.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

He wasn't an alcoholic on Buffy?

 

What show was I watching?

[Anya 0]

Anya: We could play that game again, Life. It was fun.

 

Dawn: For you! You always win.

 

Anya: Well we can make a wager this time. You can give me real money. That would be different.

 

Xander: And after we teach her to gamble we can all go get drunk!

 

Anya: I don't think the bar would serve her? But we could bring something in. Strawberry Schnapps taste like Icecream!

[Mole 0]

Anya is in hell, simple as that.

 

She has killed thousands upon thousands of people. Angel and Spike have killed hundereds upon hundereds of people and they were both headed to hell. Actually, Angel was in hell.

 

And why would it matter if the person (Anya) didn't know any better, they still killed people and the person who did the killing (Anya) should go to hell.

 

I think you missed the biggest theme of Angel; redemption. It doesn't matter what you do, how you do it, when, blah blah blah. You won't ever do enough to make up for your past.

 

Angel will be in hell. Spike will be in hell. And Anya will be in hell.

 

But just except it; its a fuckin TV show. If this was about your Mother or whatever, that would be different.

[Anya 0]

No, just killing people doesn't automatically mean you go to hell. Buffy has killed people. Xander was responsible for an innocent guy dying in OMFW. It's not black and white. At least it shouldn't be.

 

 

Angel and Spike have both admitted they were evil. Plus they are demons. That's the difference. Anya hardly got a chance in life. When she did and finally got what humanity was about she became good. It's bogus that someone who learned their lesson and did a lot of good will be eternally punished when they're not even the demon anymore.

 

 

She lived for 1,000 years but was only really alive for like 4. That's just not fair. I refuse to believe that she is in hell and I'm angry at Joss for making it possible in the first place.

 

 

 

And no, I won't just accept it. She means a lot to me, so don't tell me to just get over it.

[Tawren 0]

But just except it; its a fuckin TV show. If this was about your Mother or whatever, that would be different.

I don't mean to be a jerk, Mole, but you seem to say stuff like this (or "That's weird" or "You like it a bit too much") and yet you have over 1000 posts in the thread for a cancelled TV show. If Anyanka wishes to discuss it and believes that Anya isn't in hell, then so be it.

 

Food for thought.

[Mole 0]

You answered your own question.

 

Angel and Spike have both admitted they were evil. Plus they are demons.

Demons are Satan's work horses. When they die, they return to Hell where Satan lives.

 

I don't mean to be a jerk, Mole, but you seem to say stuff like this (or "That's weird" or "You like it a bit too much") and yet you have over 1000 posts in the thread for a cancelled TV show. If Anyanka wishes to discuss it and believes that Anya isn't in hell, then so be it.

Oh, yeah, Anya has ever right to her opinion. I just think it is wrong half of the time, so I discuss it with her.

 

But the difference between Anya and me is that I don't go to those extremes.

 

For example, my favorite character on Buffy/Angel was THE BEAST. But I don't dream about him or anything like that. I just think what Anyanka does is odd, but not bad.

 

Hell, I here it just about everyday "OMG, you like Buffy?" But I don't care what anyone thinks.

[Anya 0]

Dreaming about Beast would be kinda odd.

 

 

If I had someone to talk to I would literally talk about Buffy ALL DAY. Like I am not exagerating. I will go on and on and on about it with people who don't even watch or just barely watch. I really could just talk about it for hours and hours and hours. Just ask Cavi, who used to post here. Oh yeah, you can't because he has gone missing.

 

 

At work and class I spend more time daydreaming about Buffy than I do actually getting stuff done. It's terrible, except not really cause I like it.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Boo on Mole for hating on obsessive geeky behaviour. Boo. It should be admired and strived for, dammit.

 

I watched some of the special features on Angel Season 2 and 3 today, which has me definitely feeling some viewage in the next week. Julie Benz is INSURNLY hot. Hearing Juliette Landeau without the accent and not crazy for the first time was quite the experience, hottish. Amy Ackers screen test was one of the funniest things EVER. EVER EVER EVER. And there were points when I was watching the overview that I (a)didn't hate Cordy, and (b)wanted to see more of her. I reminded myself very quickly that she offered nothing but bad things so I went back to Amy Ackers screen test to rebalance myself ("Did you just say Thou?"). Seeing Tim Minear in a non-Fireflyronment is just odd and offputting and not right. Alexis is the fucking man of men as is J.A.R. I am redigging this show and hope to watch the eppys on DVD soon. I just need to find a reason.

[Anya 0]

Is Amy's screen test where she is by the hotel lobby and Gunn and Wes are hitting on her?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Yes. And they morph into Shakespearean Dialogue.

[Mole 0]

Dreaming about Beast would be kinda odd.

Just ask Cordy.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Since Mole has blatently stole my gimmick and Anyaka has raised the bar for obsession, I shall now have to find a new character to love..

 

Any suggestions?

 

I'm thinking Darlas Cleavage - which really should have been credited cast members on their own.

[BlackFlagg 0]

I'm thinking Darlas Cleavage - which really should have been credited cast members on their own.

I second the nomination.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I was trying to find some pics of Darlas cleavage to include in that nomination, but I couldn't find any suitable ones.

 

I'd consider this a failure, but really, the benefit is in the effort