The One and Only Angel Season 5 Thread

[Anya 0]

Black Thorn is weaksauce. Out of the 9 members we only know 6 names and 2 of those are just generic clans of demons. Shavrin clan, Fell Brethren, Sebassis and Izzy have no credibility as villains, they were comic relief! Brucker and Cyvus Vail are the only decent, credible members. Very weak big bad.

 

 

 

Everyone's story is tied up perfectly in The Gift. Dawn has a whole life ahead of her thanks to Buffy. Xander and Anya are engaged and go on to live happily ever after. Willow saved Tara. The only scoobies without happy endings are Giles and Spike, but they still have closure.

 

 

 

Wesley's death, the actual way he dies, is really lame.

[AnonymousBroccoli 0]

If we're actually voting in here, I'll go with The Gift.

 

I had a bit of a problem with Wes' death scene the first time I saw it. Being conditioned by however many episodes of Anya, Illyria, and others' comedic matter-of-fact delivery took the edge off of a really serious line. Illyria's "This wound is mortal" was so blunt, that I saw it as funny. It took the dramatic edge off of a pivotal scene.

[Anya 0]

I love it when Giles says he's dying in grave and anya is like "....no you're not!".

 

 

The Ganya shippage in that ep is good. Actually all Ganya shippage is good.

[Guest Brian]

God, Angel had spent the last two seasons searching for a reason why he fought. Back at the end of Season 1, he thought the prophesy was enough to give him a reason to fight. But it wasn't. Angel had to do what was right in the end, no matter what the consequences or the outcomes. So the Shanshu was of no consequence in the end. And anyways, Connor was the Shanshu.

[Jericholic82 0]

hey tnt has been showing season 5. anyone rewatching? Can't believe it's been a year already. dang I missed life of the party the other day that was a funny epsidoe as I remember.

 

Finally I'l get to see the whole episode where spike fights angel for the cup of mountain dew. I missed most of it the first time.

[Jericholic82 0]

wow I just realized that this thread has lasted from before the premiere of s5 last year all the way till syndication congrats to all of us who made it possible

[Ravenbomb 0]

I mean come on.... 8 years talking about the bloody prophecy and he signs it away in the last episode in an extremely anticlimatic way. ARGHAGH!

4 years. They didn't even know about it until the last episode of season 1 of Angel

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Crap, I planned to watch both episodes and compare them but stuff happens.

 

This is a hard decision for me. I prefer Not Fade Away, but I consider The Gift to be a superior episode. I often preach objectivity when rating things, because judging things on emotion has so many environmental variables getting in the way.

 

Not Fade Away was the last Angel episode. This means that everything in it carries weight that a normal episode tends not to carry. It is the last time we will ever see these characters, this setting, etc. so there is a high emotional charge. Would Wesleys death mean less if he were to show up on the season premiere a few months later? Would that cliffhanger mean as much if they weren't there to resolve it in the next season? When Buffy died in The Gift, she was back in the next episode. Angel & Co.'s fight is still going on because that's where they left off, and they won't be picking up any time soon.

 

However, with that said, should I hold this against NFA? Writing a final episode is incredibly hard and rarely do you get a good one. Not Fade Away was the best Series Finale that I have ever seen. If anything, Not Fade Away should be rewarded for providing such a satisfying ending, without really providing an ending at all.

 

And should I hold the fact that Buffy lasted 2 seasons after The Gift against it? Maybe I should. As stand alone episode, without taking anything else that happened after it in consideration, should I see the episode as Buffys death (even if she lives later on) and give it that emotional weight and see it as a fitting conclusion? But if I don't take Season 6 and 7 into consideration, then I shouldn't take Season 4 and 5 into consideration. Personally, I think that The Gift should be punished for the crummy Seasons that followed it. The way they dealt with and resolved Buffys death sucked IMO. They ruined everything that they made with The Gift in the later seasons - Willow/Tara, Anya/Xander, Buffy/Spike, Buffy/Dawn - as if to make that episode worthless. What was the point of doing all of this wonderful stuff if it were just to get broken down and thrown apart in the next season?

 

Thinking about it this way, I'd have to choose Not Fade Away.

 

Edit: Wait a second.

 

This decision is choosing which is the best Buffyverse episode. We are picking what best represents why we love these two shows. These two, personally, are my favourite episodes and I am happy the tournament turned out this way. However, if I were to show someone either one of these episodes, I'd pick The Gift. As I have said before, The Gift is the pinnacle of Joss Whedons storytelling abilities. Everything in that episode - from theme to relationships to how they killed Glory - is a reflection on the season. I love the theme of Family, and I love how this episode shows that every person in the family has a role. Giles is the father figure, having to make the choices his children shouldn't/couldn't make. Buffy was transitioning into adulthood, where she made the choice that Dawn shouldn't/couldn't make. Xander proposing to Anya (who would ever have thought Xander from season 1 would be doing and saying that?), picking up the spare, Anya coming up with all the ideas, Willow mindfucking Glory, Tara leading them there, the BUFFYBOT getting some play, Spike (trying) to save Dawn. Just wonderful usage of the characters and their roles.

 

Not Fade Away made good use of the characters and their roles, but didn't bring them into the all encompassing theme like The Gift did with Family. It was more matching up good guys and bad guys for convenience than anything. The theme of "Choosing your Fate" was expressive at the end, but not really throughout and it wasn't as effective throughout the season as "Family" in Season 5 was.

 

However, I keep falling back to Wesleys death in NFA. I loved his characters progression throughout the years and it came to an end here. I think that's probably the greatest single scene in Buffys, Angels, and even Fireflys history (ok... the Jury is still out on the last one). It is perfect. And I think that is the anchor which holds me towards Not Fade Away.

 

Not Fade Away

[Crowe 0]

Uh, no big comments from me. Not Fade Away gets my vote, however. Both are awesome episodes, but my love for Angel makes me enjoy NFA much more.

[Guest Brian]

Not Fade Away, TKO, 11-6. Thus ends the tournament.

 

Overall standings based on cumulative votes (I'll have to figure out an average at some point per round, and how to do that on excel):

 

Not Fade Away (2) 89

The Gift (4) 75

Passion (10) 57

Becoming, Part 2 (3) 53

Hush (5) 52

Spin the Bottle (24) 48

You’re Welcome (1) 45

Salvage (11) 40

A Hole in the World (5) 36

Becoming, Part 1 (13) 36

Smile Time (3) 35

Innocence, Part 2 (8) 34

Graduation Day, Part 2 (17) 33

Orpheus (15) 32

Shells (10) 30

The Wish (6) 29

Amends (27) 27

Forgiving (14) 25

Five by Five (17) 25

Fool For Love (20) 25

Apocalypse Nowish (21) 25

Home (31) 25

Origin (22) 24

Sleep Tight (8) 23

Awakening (41) 22

Doppelgangland (7) 21

Loyalty (32) 21

Lullaby (4) 20

Earshot (21) 20

This Years Girl, Part 1 (14) 19

To Shanshu in LA (26) 19

I Will Remember You (7) 17

Release (19) 17

There’s No Place Like Plrtz Glrb (50) 17

Once More, With Feeling (1) 16

Grave, Part 2 (16) 16

The Body (2) 15

Darla (13) 14

Prophecy Girl (18) 14

Halloween (26) 14

Lover’s Walk (29) 14

Chosen (12) 13

The Prom (38) 13

Reprise (43) 13

Lies My Parents Told Me (53) 13

Reunion (6) 12

Restless (23) 12

Destiny (29) 12

Hero (30) 12

Graduation Day, Part 1 (11) 11

Waiting in the Wings (16) 11

Cavalry (25) 11

Enemies (30) 11

Tabula Rasa (37) 11

Dirty Girls (47) 11

Sanctuary (9) 10

Intervention (31) 10

Check Point (45) 10

Damage (23) 9

School Hard (32) 9

Benediction (56) 9

Angel (19) 8

Redefinition (37) 8

Dead End (40) 8

Conversations With Dead People (24) 6

Deep Down (12) 6

City of (18) 6

Surprise, Part 1 (22) 6

What’s My Line, Part 2 (25) 6

Triangle (28) 6

Soulless (28) 6

In The Dark (33) 6

Offspring (46) 6

Primevil (49) 6

Long Day’s Journey (51) 6

Welcome to the Hellmouth, Part 1 (54) 6

Crush (56) 6

Habeas Corpses (60) 6

A New Man (UR) 6

Who Are You?, Part 2 (9) 5

Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered (15) 5

Underneath (20) 5

Are You Know or Have You Ever Been There (36) 5

That Vision Thing (39) 5

Something Blue (40) 5

Peace Out (42) 5

Sacrifice (54) 5

Zeppo (43) 4

Selfless (33) 4

Dear Boy (34) 4

Villains (34) 4

Rm w/a Vu (35) 4

Epiphany (38) 4

Billy (48) 4

Dad (53) 4

Choices (57) 4

Spiral (58) 4

Fear, Itself (59) 3

The Trial (27) 3

Bad Girls (35) 3

Heartthrob (47) 3

Faith, Hope, and Trick (50) 3

Consequences (51) 3

Time Bomb (55) 3

Quickening (57) 3

Lineage (58) 3

Through the Looking Glass (64) 3

Pangs (UR) 3

Yoko Factor (61) 2

Disharmony (49) 2

Inside Out (52) 2

Hell Bound (62) 2

Lie To Me (UR) 2

Phases (UR) 2

Power Play (45) 1

Band Candy (44) 1

Somnambulist (44) 1

Blood Ties (52) 1

Revelations (55) 1

New Moon Rising (60) 1

Wild at Heart (62) 1

Nightmares (UR) 1

Eternity (63) 0

What’s My Line, Part 1 (39) 0

Birthday (59) 0

Soul Purpose (61) 0

No Place like Home (63) 0

Helpless (64) 0

[Guest croweater]

Crap, I planned to watch both episodes and compare them but stuff happens.

 

This is a hard decision for me. I prefer Not Fade Away, but I consider The Gift to be a superior episode. I often preach objectivity when rating things, because judging things on emotion has so many environmental variables getting in the way.

 

Not Fade Away was the last Angel episode. This means that everything in it carries weight that a normal episode tends not to carry. It is the last time we will ever see these characters, this setting, etc. so there is a high emotional charge. Would Wesleys death mean less if he were to show up on the season premiere a few months later? Would that cliffhanger mean as much if they weren't there to resolve it in the next season? When Buffy died in The Gift, she was back in the next episode. Angel & Co.'s fight is still going on because that's where they left off, and they won't be picking up any time soon.

 

However, with that said, should I hold this against NFA? Writing a final episode is incredibly hard and rarely do you get a good one. Not Fade Away was the best Series Finale that I have ever seen. If anything, Not Fade Away should be rewarded for providing such a satisfying ending, without really providing an ending at all.

 

And should I hold the fact that Buffy lasted 2 seasons after The Gift against it? Maybe I should. As stand alone episode, without taking anything else that happened after it in consideration, should I see the episode as Buffys death (even if she lives later on) and give it that emotional weight and see it as a fitting conclusion? But if I don't take Season 6 and 7 into consideration, then I shouldn't take Season 4 and 5 into consideration. Personally, I think that The Gift should be punished for the crummy Seasons that followed it. The way they dealt with and resolved Buffys death sucked IMO. They ruined everything that they made with The Gift in the later seasons - Willow/Tara, Anya/Xander, Buffy/Spike, Buffy/Dawn - as if to make that episode worthless. What was the point of doing all of this wonderful stuff if it were just to get broken down and thrown apart in the next season?

 

Thinking about it this way, I'd have to choose Not Fade Away.

 

Edit: Wait a second.

 

This decision is choosing which is the best Buffyverse episode. We are picking what best represents why we love these two shows. These two, personally, are my favourite episodes and I am happy the tournament turned out this way. However, if I were to show someone either one of these episodes, I'd pick The Gift. As I have said before, The Gift is the pinnacle of Joss Whedons storytelling abilities. Everything in that episode - from theme to relationships to how they killed Glory - is a reflection on the season. I love the theme of Family, and I love how this episode shows that every person in the family has a role. Giles is the father figure, having to make the choices his children shouldn't/couldn't make. Buffy was transitioning into adulthood, where she made the choice that Dawn shouldn't/couldn't make. Xander proposing to Anya (who would ever have thought Xander from season 1 would be doing and saying that?), picking up the spare, Anya coming up with all the ideas, Willow mindfucking Glory, Tara leading them there, the BUFFYBOT getting some play, Spike (trying) to save Dawn. Just wonderful usage of the characters and their roles.

 

Not Fade Away made good use of the characters and their roles, but didn't bring them into the all encompassing theme like The Gift did with Family. It was more matching up good guys and bad guys for convenience than anything. The theme of "Choosing your Fate" was expressive at the end, but not really throughout and it wasn't as effective throughout the season as "Family" in Season 5 was.

 

However, I keep falling back to Wesleys death in NFA. I loved his characters progression throughout the years and it came to an end here. I think that's probably the greatest single scene in Buffys, Angels, and even Fireflys history (ok... the Jury is still out on the last one). It is perfect. And I think that is the anchor which holds me towards Not Fade Away.

 

Not Fade Away

You are a very strange man.

You love Wes, but hate Willow?

Wes was just diet Giles, and then later a broody diet Giles.

[Guest Brian]

How was Wes a "diet" Giles?

[Golgo 13 0]

Because they were both Watchers.

 

With glasses.

 

Yeah, I don't see the similarities beyond that either.

[BlackFlagg 0]

Because they were both Watchers.

 

With glasses.

 

Yeah, I don't see the similarities beyond that either.

and they're both English....uh huh, the plot thickens.

[Mole 0]

Conversations With Dead People (24) 6

That boggles my mind because that is an amazing episode.

[Tawren 0]

Conversations With Dead People (24) 6

That boggles my mind because that is an amazingly shitty episode.

Fixed your quote, Mole.

[Mole 0]

I watched "A Hole in the World" because I wanted to see Fred die. Since those two episodes are basically two-parters, I had to watch "Shells." And boy was I wrong with it being not that good.

 

It might be my favorite episode from season 5 now.

 

EDIT: And this was my 9000th post, which had to be in this thread since 7000 and 8000 were here, I had to continue the streak.

[AnonymousBroccoli 0]

I've watched AHitW and Shells again recently, and they're both excellent.

 

Watching Shells, then going to bed, somewhat loopy from a flu-induced fever, isn't so fun. I ended up tossing around in bed a fair bit of the night, trying to figure out a way to save Fred, in between bouts of coughing up yellow goo.

[Ravenbomb 0]

I've watched AHitW and Shells again recently, and they're both excellent.

 

Watching Shells, then going to bed, somewhat loopy from a flu-induced fever, isn't so fun. I ended up tossing around in bed a fair bit of the night, trying to figure out a way to save Fred, in between bouts of coughing up yellow goo.

ugh, I hate when that happens. Both the weird fever-dreams involving stuff you just watched and the coughing up goo bits

[Anya 0]

I lose sleep worrying about Buffy characters even when I'm not sick.

[Ravenbomb 0]

yeah, but you're a fucking loon anyways

[Anya 0]

That was mean.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Yes, it was.

 

But don't worry Anya, you're our loon.

[Ravenbomb 0]

That was mean.

point being?

[Anya 0]

More people need to be hardcore like me.

[Ravenbomb 0]

Fewer people need to be hardcore like me.

much better

[Guest Brian]

Psychologically, how much of the human still exists in the vampire? How much of the shell is still alive when the demon gets in? I figure Liam was just an extension of himself without inhibitions, and William still wanted to save his mom before totally rebelling against that image. So, how much humanity is left in a vampire?

[Ravenbomb 0]

quite a bit if what Darla said in that one episode of Angel is any indication

[Guest Brian]

And I thought the whole ubervamp/Pylea thing through today on the metro, and I figure that Angel in Pylea was pure demon, and that the ubervamps were infected human shells.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Only the after-effects/echos of the humans personality are still alive in the vampire. "I loved this when I was human, should I love it now? This is what I did... do I do it now?" After that initial phase of flux, the new ethos emerges and all that was part of the human are gone.