The One and Only Angel Season 5 Thread

[Mole 0]

I love how lazy the writers were in season 7 when they just called them ubervamps.

 

So, they are supervamps?

[Anya 0]

Well they had the Turok-Han official name, Ubervamp was just Buffy-speak.

 

 

I like how Anya talking to her "contacts" suddenly made it so they COULD be staked. See the power Anya has? She can talk to people and warp reality! What a champion.

 

I want to know who her contacts are anyway. Where were they in the other seasons? Are they the same people as Giles' mysterious "coven"? Do either of these groups even exist or do An and Giles just use them as an excuse to go on vacation away from the crowded Summers house?

 

 

 

It's sad how they had nothing for Lorne to do once he became a regular so they just gave him Anya's "I know stuff about demons, here's some exposition" job. At least it lead to those funny floating girls that say "ohhhhhh Angel".

[brokentusk16 0]

Just wanted to throw in about how great the season 5 eps on TNT are! Where season 4 suffered from pace, five is moving along quite nicely. Can't wait to see the series finale.

[Jericholic82 0]

dont hate on obsesisveness, I didn't sleep much the night of the angel finale, becuase I was racking my brain trying to figure out what just happened and what is to become of our fav characters. hell at least we know that the scoobies (sans anya RIP) were able to live on. although xander hanign out in africa makes no sense. that's not to say I think about these shows all the time. I am just sayin I understand where you guys are coming from. I also tend to imagine myself in the show at some times. Anyone else fearless enough to admit that (cmon anyanka I know you've got a story like that)

 

 

By the way I am working on a lets say story about angel/buffy. I'l post it once I finish. I'm not giving it away yet lol

 

 

 

quote of the day

 

 

Spike:It's.....mountain dew?

[Guest Brian]

God, I wish I hadn't missed Destiny last night because of class. I loved that episode the first time around.

[Ravenbomb 0]

I miss Phantom Dennis

 

I have nothing to add to the conversation really, I just watched Ground State earlier and remembered the writing off of Dennis

[BlackFlagg 0]

Harm's Way's on....Angel being called Whore Man = ownage

[Anya 0]

Yeah, I've imagined myself hanging out with the scoobies a lot. I'd be fun. I don't think I could handle the monsters though, even with Buffy around.

 

I often think about xander and Anya. It's weird. Usually there's no monsters involved either. They're just hanging out. My mind is like a never ending season 5-6. The only difference between it and Joss' real writing is that everybody's actually always happy and nothing bad ever happens.

 

 

 

Except the other day I had a dream where Gunn got shot. He was going to live though, I think.

[Anakin Flair 0]

Anya, you need help. You have an addiction, but fear not! We are all here for you!

 

As for what you said earlier, the Ubervamps couldn't be staked just because Anya talked to her contacts. She was told they could be staked, but it was difficult due to the bone surrounding the heart, which acted like armor plating. Buffy probably couldn't stake it the first time due to the fact that she was exhausted.

[Anya 0]

She clearly stakes the vamp. The stake is like stuck in him. He pulls it out and the skin just heals up.

 

 

Anya also claims Holy water doesn't work on them, which isn't true either since Andrew's works on the first ubie.

[Mole 0]

The only difference between it and Joss' real writing is that everybody's actually always happy and nothing bad ever happens.

That is something I am a fan of; bad things happening. Another reason why I love Joss.

[Anya 0]

Yeah, he calls it giving us what we need instead of what we want. It makes you care about the characters more because they're more real.

 

 

Still, I want the scoobs to be happy.

[BlackFlagg 0]

GIRL: Thank you! Thank you! That thing was gonna kill me!

SPIKE: Well, what do you expect? Out alone in this neighborhood? I got half a mind to kill you myself, you half-wit.

GIRL: What?!

SPIKE: I mean, honestly, what kind of retard wears heels like that in a dark alley? Take 2 steps, break your bloody ankle.

GIRL: I was just trying to get home.

SPIKE: Well, get a cab, you moron. And on the way, if a stranger offers you candy, don't get in the van....Stupid cow.

 

[Guest Brian]

God, Soul Purpose was so much better than I remember. Fred talking about Angel as a shell, Lindsay and Spike, Spike as Angel, and some other stuff I'll get to later.

[Mole 0]

Yeah, he calls it giving us what we need instead of what we want. It makes you care about the characters more because they're more real.

 

 

Still, I want the scoobs to be happy.

Then you are watching the wrong show.

 

This is the same guy who wanted to put a character in the main credits and kill him off in the same episode. He did kill Jesse off, but he wasn't featured in the main credits do to money.

 

If he wanted to do something like that in the FIRST episode, you don't think the series won't have stuff like that?

 

I HATE, with a passion, TV/Movies that always end happy. Life ends happy about 20% of the time. So why is it in TV/movies that stuff ends happy about 80% of the time?

[Anya 0]

Considering it's like my favorite thing in the world I don't think I'm watching the wrong show.

 

 

 

Bad stuff happening on the actual show is good, except a few things. But why would I imagine bad things happening to them on my own? That would just be depressing.

[Ravenbomb 0]

I HATE, with a passion, TV/Movies that always end happy. Life ends happy about 20% of the time. So why is it in TV/movies that stuff ends happy about 80% of the time?

Cause TV/Movies aren't life?

[Mole 0]

I HATE, with a passion, TV/Movies that always end happy. Life ends happy about 20% of the time. So why is it in TV/movies that stuff ends happy about 80% of the time?

Cause TV/Movies aren't life?

You know what I mean.

[Jericholic82 0]

I think we need a Spike spinoff in which he shares an apartment with Xander and Lorne and Andrew

 

I dont know why it just came to me

 

Lorne can open a new club in like NYC and Xan and Andrew can bartend and help out. Spike would read his poems and beat up demons and vamps

 

what do you think?

 

anyone want to take a stab at writing a screenplay for it? maybe I'll try

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Dude, you are TOTALLY ripping off "Reconstructing Xander".

[Anya 0]

As long as Anya comes back to life I would support anything.

 

At this point I would settle for a Clem spin off. I just want something.

[Jericholic82 0]

Dude, you are TOTALLY ripping off "Reconstructing Xander".

not really, in fact xan doesnt even need to be on this show its going to be called spike

 

or perhaps the Lorne and Spike variety hour

[Guest Brian]

God, I so underrated Soul Purpose the first time around. I don't know why, maybe it had to do with Angel's dreams or maybe I thought they did a much better job doing the "Spike as the hero" story in "Destiny". Whatever it was, I didn't realize how much I liked this.

 

This episode starts out with Spike and Angel back to fighting for the cup of perpetual torment. It's really a reaffirmation to Angel, through Spike's conversation, that all the little things he had done had added up to nothing, that he still didn't understand why he was fighting or what he was fighting for. Then Spike drinks, and Angel dissolves into nothingess ala Spike in "Chosen", a hero fading away.

 

Spike and Lindsay was a nice throwback to Angel/Doyle. I loved Spike saving that girl, and then ranting on her.

 

GIRL

(stands, incredulous)

Thank you! Thank you! That thing was gonna kill me!

 

SPIKE

Well, what do you expect? Out alone in this neighborhood? I got half a mind to kill you myself, you half-wit.

 

GIRL

What?!

 

SPIKE

I mean, honestly, what kind of retard wears heels like that in a dark alley? Take 2 steps, break your bloody ankle.

 

GIRL

I was just trying to get home.

 

SPIKE

(pushes her shoulder, ushering her down the alley toward a lit street)

Well, get a cab, you moron.

(calling after her as she walks away)

And on the way, if a stranger offers you candy, don't get in the van!

(under his breath)

Stupid cow.

 

LINDSAY

(sitting on a nearby fire escape landing)

Believe me now?

 

SPIKE

What, your victim vision? Please. Can't throw a bloody stone in this town without hitting some bimbo in trouble.

 

LINDSAY

(walks down the fire escape stairs toward Spike)

Tough guy, huh? Nice work, by the way, takin' out that vamp.

 

SPIKE

(looking around, unimpressed)

Oh, yeah. Epic battle. My finest hour.

 

Then you get to that second dream, with Wes turning on Angel, which was great. After that, Spike makes another save, this time with the wrist-stakes. Another scene reminiscent of "City of", but Spike's not the same withdrawn character, he's really embracing his role as a hero. Often, it seemed that Angel was fighting for a reward, and this was brought up in the dream where Spike saved everyone during the apocalypse.

 

I liked Eve and Wes. We know she knows about everything that's gone down between the two, and it looked like she was really trying to create a rift.

 

First time through, I know I disliked this dream. It was just too strange. But Fred's ending line is just so great, and I had never realized the parallel between Fred as a shell and Angel as a shell while at Wolfram and Hart.

 

FRED

Nothing. I can't seem to find anything wrong with you. I mean...

(bends over to look in his chest again)

...except that you're empty. There's nothing left. Just a shell.

 

I loved at the end of Spike saving the apocalypse how Angel went from CEO to pushing the mail cart, similar to Numero Cinco going from the hero.

 

I absolutely loved Wes and Gunn approaching Spike because it oddly felt like Lindsay trying to coerce Angel in "city of". I also like later on when Gunn and Fred are talking about that convo, and how he says changing things from the inside sounds really naive.

 

I liked the Lorne stuff, and it's probably among the best they got out of Lorne that season.

 

LORNE

Now you're gettin' it. Everything hurts, and then we die. Or in your case, everything hurts and... then you go on...

(hits a low note on the piano)

and on...

(hits a lower note on the piano)

and on...

(hits a lower note on the piano)

and on.

 

How Angel was just living for nothing. How he wasn't fighting for anything. And then after he tries to sing, and doesn't, Fred says how she knew he was empty. Another reference to the shell. And then Wesley says how they paid blood for this, a reference to a number of things, probably the most glaring being Connor and Angel.

 

And I love how Eve at the end, after Angel's figured out she's behind it, says that maybe she should look inward to his circle. A big foreboding, as Gunn and Wes are set to make some big turns, as well as Fred's change (And even Lorne with Lindsay).

 

Overall, I think it's a very solid 'B'. Earlier on, I would have probably said 'C-', but a seond viewing has proven it to be much better rounded and much deeper than I had thought.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I am watching Reprise right now and am at the part where Darla is reading the Confidential document regarding the 75 year review.

 

2 things:

 

Wolfram and Hart's offices are in NY, LA, London, Paris, and Cairo.

 

The document restates itself in the 4th paragraph.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Holy Crap that was an awesome episode. Holy fucking crap that had a great cinematic quality, just epic shit. Now I gotta watch the whole saga again. The Holland Mathers scene was amazing and this had to be the peak of their female characters - Kate looking insanely hot, Lilah coming into her own foxiness, Cordy peaking and Darla... shwaaah. Mmmm good gawd! ... iiing.

[Guest Brian]

I've been telling you people forever that it was one fucking awesome episode.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Well ladeefuckingda

 

I've been pimping it too, I just haven't watched it in a while.

 

We need to do a "book club" kinda thing here, with Angel DVD's, 2,3,4 in particular.

[Guest Brian]

After that big write-up on "Soul Purpose", sincet he replay on TNT was Friday, I was hoping other would pipe in.

[Guest Brian]

I was watching AHITW, and I didn't realize there's a small part where Fred says that the cavemen would win as she's going delirious, a great reference to the fact that Illyria was an Old One and for all of Wolfram and Hart's technology and resources, they were defeated by the brute force. And it's also a way to lok at the Spike/Angel relationship again, and how Spike had overtaken Angel as the hero.

 

I love that theme of why Angel fight's, and here's the great "Reprise" dialogue:

 

Holland is standing in the open doors of the elevator slowly clapping his hands.

Angel walks slowly closer.

Holland: "Congratulations. Great victory."

Angel: "You're..."

Holland: "Holland Manners."

Angel: "...not alive."

Holland: "Oh, no. I'm quite dead. Unfortunately my contract with Wolfram and Hart extends well beyond that. (Gives Angel a big smile, then motions his head) Hop on in. You certainly earned it."

Angel slowly steps in, looking at Holland, who laughs.

Holland: "No. Not a ghost here. No, it's just me. Dead me. (Pulls the collar of his shirt aside to show Angel Darla's bite marks, then reaches for the elevator buttons) See? - Home office, wasn't it? I should mention the trip is one way."

Angel stands in the elevator looking out, not saying anything.

We see a homeless person pushing a loaded down shopping cart across the plaza in front of the elevator.

Holland: "Well, if there are no objections, I suggest we get going. It is rather a long ride."

Holland pushes the 'down' button. The doors close and we see the elevator descending down the elevator shaft.

Angel and Holland are standing side by side in the elevator as the lights from the floors it is passing flash by and typically annoying elevator music plays in the background.

Holland: "Well, this is exciting, isn't it? (Smiles) Going straight to the source. - So, what's the big plan, Angel? Destroy the Senior Partners, smash Wolfram and Hart once and for all?"

Angel: "Something like that."

Holland: "Hm-mm, now tell me just what do you think that would accomplish? In the end, I mean."

Angel: "It'll be - the end."

Holland: "Well, the end of you, certainly. But I meant in the larger sense."

Angel: "In the larger sense I really don't give a crap."

Holland: "Now I don't think that's true. - Be honest. - You got the tiniest bit of 'give a crap' left. Otherwise you wouldn't be going on this Kamikaze mission. Now let me see, there was something - in a sacred prophecy, some oblique reference to you. Something you're supposed to prevent. Now what was that?"

Angel: "The apocalypse."

Holland: "Yes, the apocalypse, of course. - Another one of those. Well, it's true. We do have one scheduled. And I imagine if you were to prevent it you would save a great many people. Well, you should do that then. Absolutely. I wasn't thinking. - Of course all those people you save from that apocalypse would then have the next one to look forward to, but, hey, it's always something, isn't it?"

The elevator shaft and cable dissolve as the elevator continues to plummet into a hellish red glow.

Angel: "You're not gonna win."

Holland: "Well - *no*. Of course we aren't. We have no intention of doing anything so prosaic as 'winning.'"

Holland laughs and for the first time Angel turns his head to glance in Holland's general direction.

Angel: "Then why?"

Holland: "Hmm? I'm sorry? Why what?"

Angel: "Why fight?"

Holland: "That's really the question you should be asking yourself, isn't it? See, for us, there is no fight. Which is why winning doesn't enter into it. We - go on - no matter what. Our firm has always been here. In one form or another. The Inquisition. The Khmer Rouge. We were there when the very first cave man clubbed his neighbor. See, we're in the hearts and minds of every single living being. And *that* - friend - is what's making things so difficult for you. - See, the world doesn't work in spite of evil, Angel. - It works with us. - It works because of us."

And with that the elevator comes to a screeching halt.

The doors open and Angel looks out to see a homeless person pushing a loaded shopping cart across the plaza in front of the Wolfram and Hart Office building in LA.

Holland: "Welcome to the home office."

Angel: "This isn't..."

Holland: "Well, you know it is. - You know *that* better than anyone. Things you've seen. Things you've, well - done. You see, if there wasn't evil in every single one of them out there (Angel watches as some people in the plaza start yelling at each other) why, they wouldn't be people. - They'd all be angels."

The glove drops from Angel's right to land on the floor of the elevator and Angel slowly shuffles out of it.

Holland calling after him as the doors close: "Have a nice day."

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

That's why I said DVD's; if we can pick a dvd that we all have, then it'd be easier to get everyone watching.