RF pirates Nick Mondo footage for profit

[Guest Jay Z. Hollywood]

From nickmondo.com

 

 

^Pretty self-explanatory.

[Red Hot Thumbtack In The Eye 0]

Am I mistaken or is this a fairly common practise for RF? I could swear I've heard about this shit happening to many other workers.

[The Dames 0]

Honestly, why does it matter?

 

I can understand if Mondo owned the footage, but realistically, what's stopping me from taking 10 Mondo matches, putting them on a tape and releasing them as a Best Of tape for profit? It's not like I'm going to send Mondo any money that I'd make off of it, right?

 

For the record, I'm not biased towards RF in any way, just trying to make a point here.

 

Dames

[Guest Jay Z. Hollywood]

The essential difference there is:

 

RF=big company with major exposure, major resources (ie can mass copy and distribute hundreds of tapes per compilation) major sales and major profits

one guy=most definitely not

 

Mondo worked on his own Best Of DVD for months (along with a documentary, "Unscarred, the Life of Nick Mondo"-Download the trailer on Mondo's site, you won't regret it, it's blowaway.) -And I guess his feeling is this tape will take sales, and therefore money, away from his own projects. And for an indy wrestler, ANY money lost is a *very* big deal.

 

Whether RF owns the rights to a lot of those matches is sketchy. Technically, Smart Mark Video owns the rights to a good chunk of them. However, SMV reached an agreement with RF to distribute their tapes to RF for sale. That contract ended around Cage of Death 4 (December 2002), and Mondo's COD4 match is not coincidentally the last match on the tape. So I don't know honestly how that works out.

Edited September 24, 2003 by ShooterJay

[The Dames 0]

I can understand that feeling, but at the same time, does he honestly expect RF to shill out royalties to every wrestler that they have a Best Of tape for?

 

Dames

[Guest Jay Z. Hollywood]

Eh, that's the other thing- most of the guys RF makes comps for are either regulars in ROH (his promotion-and who wants to piss off the boss?), Japanese stars (who probably don't even know) or stars from the Big 3.

 

Mondo falls under none of those categories. He also has a shitload of medical bills to pay because of his injuries from TOD2.

 

Bottom line: Is this illegal? I'm pretty sure it is. Is Rob Feinstein a bootlegger? Yup.

 

Do I feel bad for Mondo? Definitely.

Does stuff like this detract from ROH as a promotion? Not at all.

Am I still going to buy ROH tapes? Yes- through emaxwrestlingtapes.com

Edited September 24, 2003 by ShooterJay

[Guest Bobby Cox is God]

not only that, but if you have RF Videos on your site, Rob will send you an e-mail saying that you need to take them off.

 

He's a pirate just like the rest of us, he's just a bitch about it.

[LucharesuFan619 0]

Mike Modest told me that RF also did this with the debut show of Pro Wrestling Iron.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

I'm obviously not gonna defend RF on this one, but look at it on the bright side....at least it funds ROH.

[PsychoDriver 0]

Hate to tell Mondo but if he means this tape:

 

1. Nick Mondo vs. Wifebeater vs. Mad Man Pondo

2. Nick Mondo vs. Nick Berk vs. Nick Gage (Ironman Tables & Ladders Match)

3. Nick Mondo vs. Nick Gage (Barbed Wire Match)

4. Nick Mondo vs. Necro Butcher (Staple Gun Match)

5. Nick Mondo vs. Ian Rotten (Barbed Wire Bat Match)

6. Nick Mondo vs. Nick Berk vs. Adam Flash

7. Nick Mondo vs. Justice Pain

8. Nick Mondo vs. Homeless Jimmy

9. Nick Mondo vs. Wifebeater (Ropes Wrapped in Barbed Wire 200 Light Tube Death Match)

10. Nick Mondo vs. Johnny Kashmere

11. Nick Mondo vs. Trent Acid

12. Nick Mondo & M Dogg 20 vs. Backseat Boyz

13. Nick Mondo & Ric Blade vs. Backseat Boyz (TLC Match)

 

Mondo doesn't have a case, IIRC RFVideo had a legit deal to sell Pre-2003 CZW shows. I don't think anyone with an RF "best of" be it Raven, Ric Flair, RVD, Cactus Jack or anyone get money from RF. Mondo's just the first one I've ever heard complain... it sucks but that's the way it is.

[Guest Black Tiger]

If you ask me it makes RF look like a really big hypocrite. RF sells thousands of different videos with footage he has no legal right to be selling or using. However, he goes nuts over people who pirate RoH tapes even though they are doing the same thing he does.

 

I seem to remember Baisden telling me that RF refused to let 411wrestling.com interview any RoH guys over Baisden plugging Mark Out Video.

[Youth N Asia 0]

RF's been doing thatr forever. They lie and say they pay the guys, but they never do.

[Guest Bobby Cox is God]

Karma's a bitch....it'll hit Feinstein soon enough.

[Guest Shining Brian]

I'm not an expert on copyright laws, but I think the only way he could have a case is if he copyrighted the name "Nick Mondo". Than they could still sell the matches, they just couldn't sell it using his name.

[Guest OSIcon]

It has nothing to do with Mondo really.

 

If there was any case for this being illegal", it would be because RF was using footage from CZW that ROH doesn't "own" but CZW does. Even then, the issue would be between CZW and ROH for owns the rights, not Mondo.

 

As someone said earlier, its probably a safe bet that RF has rights to all the footage they are using on the NIck Mondo Best Of. As long as they had a deal with CZW to film those shows that the matches from the Mondo comp come from and there wasn't any restriction on how they could use them, then RF is well within their rights to sell the matches as part of a comp.

 

Of course it would be nice if Mondo and other indy wrestlers would get royalities for their comp tapes, but there is nothing illegal about it.

[Guest Doyo]

Indy wrestlers work on a paid for the night's performance and nothing more

basis. The federations own the footage. If I pay a guy a set fee to paint my house

and he knows I am videotaping him and that I may sell tapes of him in the future, he

can't later on demand more money. WWE wrestlers sign long written contracts which

probably include sections for royalties on merchandise sold. Even then I doubt it includes

royalties for video footage, only for tshirts and stuff. The upcoming Ric Flair

dvd is going to be 3 discs long and I doubt every single wrestler on that dvd

will be getting checks in the mail. Then you have the referees, timekeepers and others

that get on the footage...

[Guest bort]

"Am I still going to buy ROH tapes? Yes- through emaxwrestlingtapes.com "

 

thanks for the site link im gonna pick some stuff up from there

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Idiot.

 

Buying ROH tapes from someone other than RF means ROH goes out of business sooner and loses money.

 

But you like the product.

 

Idiots like you always amaze.

 

Tim

[Guest bort]

i didnt say i was going to buy ROH tapes did i, there is alot of stuff on the site such as some good cheap puro and xpw and other shit

[Guest Jay Z. Hollywood]

Idiot.

 

Buying ROH tapes from someone other than RF means ROH goes out of business sooner and loses money.

 

But you like the product.

 

Idiots like you always amaze.

 

Tim

Dude, Tim, lighten up man.

 

ROH is not going anywhere anytime soon. Their business model is too airtight. I think they can live without my money.

 

IWA Mid-South, on the other hand, I always go through SMV- and again, if you haven't bought the charity show, I implore you all to do it. 6 hours and 25 matches for 20 bucks is a great deal.

[Youth N Asia 0]

Idiot.

 

Buying ROH tapes from someone other than RF means ROH goes out of business sooner and loses money.

 

But you like the product.

 

Idiots like you always amaze.

 

Tim

Dude, Tim, lighten up man.

 

ROH is not going anywhere anytime soon. Their business model is too airtight. I think they can live without my money.

 

IWA Mid-South, on the other hand, I always go through SMV- and again, if you haven't bought the charity show, I implore you all to do it. 6 hours and 25 matches for 20 bucks is a great deal.

CZW is still doing well. And people trade their stuff all the time. I love ROH, but I hate RF Video.

[Guest Jay Z. Hollywood]

Good to see you again YNA.

 

And yeah, I use SMV for CZW also. I just got Redefined the other day too from them (review coming soon to TSM!) Next up though for review, is the IWA tape with the Alex Shelley/Jimmy Jacobs gauntlet series, which is incredible.

 

Nice to see guys from IWA in ROH though- first Punk/Cabana/Steel and Whitmer, now Alex/HUSS/Nigel McGuiness

 

Ian makes the stars, RF takes credit for 'em, heh.

[Youth N Asia 0]

Good to see you again YNA.

Move took longer then I thought, plus the phone company was being dicky about switching places....bah, long story

[Guest bye]

You'll have to excuse Tim for that somewhat infantile outburst, he and Rob have a "special relationship."

 

**For opinions on Japanese wrestling from people who are not uptight elitists prone to hissyfits, visit www.ichibanpuroresu.com **

[Guest OSIcon]

ROH is not going anywhere anytime soon. Their business model is too airtight. I think they can live without my money.

 

Think for a moment how that sounds: "I like ROH and want to see the videos. I am not willing to buy them from ROH though. Good thing others buy from them to help keep the company expanding. I am fine with just watching and enjoying the prodcut for free while others support it for me with their money."

 

Its selfish and kind of condradictory to say you like the product but refuse to support it by buying the tapes. If everyone had the same outlook, then ROH would either be in financial trouble or not have the money to be able to expand at the rate they are expanding at.

 

Just something I'll never understand. To me, its common sense that if I like something, I will do what I can to see that it stays around and continues getting better. Not "hurt" it (even if the damage done by not buying a few video tapes from RF is small, its still lossed revenue and it adds up).

[Guest Jay Z. Hollywood]

OSIcon:

 

You do in fact have a good and very valid point. You are absolutely correct in what you just said.

 

But here's the thing (this is all somewhat recent):

RF has sent me the wrong tape before.

RF has sent me sent me damaged tapes before

RF has taken 6 weeks or longer to process orders.

RF is in fact a hypocrite when it comes to dealing with other tape sites.

 

Simply, I, and a lot of other people, have gotten fed up with the unprofessional way the company is run, and don't want to chance ordering through the company. Others simply don't like him because of the last above point (very akin to why nobody buys XPW tapes, because of Rob Black.) I fall into the first category. When I do go to ROH live shows (3 so far) I get the tapes- I've given them plenty of my money, I feel. But cheaper sources (emax) provide the same video quality, and with limited funds, I'm gonna go with the cheaper sources, and throw business to actual friends of mine, who have good service records.

 

Again, always go to Smart Mark Video for CZW/IWA and the other stuff they have. That company is how a tape service should be run, hence why they're the ones getting new feds, (PWG, APW-LA) and RF is still stuck with ROH, ECW and Big 2 bootlegs and a bunch of feds no one really cares about. (As much as I love JAPW and IWC- it's true.)

Edited September 25, 2003 by ShooterJay

[Guest Randy Pan]

Mondo has been asked about the legality of the tape on his message board and here is what he had to say:

 

Actually, RF was only coming to CZW for a couple shows. Many of the ones on there, they weren't even at. ...He claims he bought the footage off Zandig. ..I'm not going to get into a fight with Zandig over it. ...I was basically screwed and there's nothing I can do about it.

[Youth N Asia 0]

My dealings with RF were 50/50...sometimes I was happy with what I got, sometimes I wasn't. While Smart mark has been perfect.

 

RF is just shit when it comes to customer service.

[Guest Jay Z. Hollywood]

Anyway, Lars from brutalbutchershoppe.com (check out his site too, he's got some nicely designed t-shirts of some indy wrestlers, plus some media downloads) finally cleared this up:

 

--Yeah, after expenses of 'Favorite Matches' all proceeds of the DVD are going straight to Nick. Nick offered to let me keep half of all the sales but I couldn't accept that much considering what he's put himself through over the last 4 years.

 

As far as the DVD, Mondo is paying me a fixed amount. Everything after that amount I'm thrilled he's going to be able to claim for what he does.

 

Based on a business perspective, yeah, I'm a complete moron, but I don't run BBS in hopes that I'll never have to work again. In my journal you referred too, the point I was trying to get across wasn't that more fans should buy shirts from my site, it was just to appreciate and support something good while it's still around rather than regret not doing so after its already folded. i.e BBS, CZW, and even this board.

 

Regarding the RF situation, based on legality Feinsteind is 100% in the right considering he did indeed purchase the rights to the footage. Based on morality I don't know how he can sleep at night. It's not an issue of 'I'm not obligated to give any money to the workers for a Best Of tape', it's a matter of being a decent enough person to say, 'Hey, this guy is going to live with pain and injuries for the rest of his life. He deserves something'.

 

The fact that Rob can't say that makes me sick.

 

~Lars

[Nevermortal 0]

Gabe posted some shit-talk:

 

"I was going to delete this thread, but I'll keep it going. The fact of the matter is that if anybody like Nick Mondo has a problem with this they should take it up with Zandig. Rob pays the promoters for the footage and has the rights to do whatever he wants with it. In turn the money he gives to the promotion goes to whatever use the promotion needs it for. The promotion can give it to the boys, increase production or just put it in their pockets. The bottom line is that if any of the boys have a problem with it they should take it up with the promoter because Rob pays for the footage. As far as something like the Best Of Nick Mondo, we usually don't even sell that many copies of a tape like that anyway. He's just probably bitter because he showed up uninvited to our 7/19 show and walked away the locker room like he owned the place when everyone was really laughing at him cause no one takes him seriously as a wrestler. I've even had CZW guys say he was nothing more than a backyarder. Sometimes guys get bitter that they aren't good enough to get booked and they take it out in different ways and this is Mondo's way of crying."

 

What a dick.