dubq 0 Report post Posted September 25, 2003 World Titles are part of the big suspension of disbelief of pro wrestling. Fans will not watch a company if they think that the World Title is just a joke. A World Title should be the belt that THE MAN in the company holds- anytime someone wins the title it should be treated as something serious. Fans do take the World Title seriously. It's been shown and stated time and time again, and even in this forum, that the IWC is only a small fraction of the wrestling fan base. As for the other stuff... Talk to any marks and you'll see for yourself. Go to house shows and listen to them. It's fairly easy to guage who they're into and who they're not. From what I've seen, to marks, Triple H is just as over as a heel as someone like Chris Jericho is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mulatto Heat Report post Posted September 25, 2003 I love how the Ric Flair run-in and turn was totally neglected in that analysis. But that's par for the course. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest vex_hecubus Report post Posted September 25, 2003 Benoit Moveset: Stiff Chops + Kicks, German Suplexes(A Billion And One In ONE MATCH) + Other Versions of Suplexes, Clotheslines, Swandive Headbutt, Crossface, Punches, Elbows, With A Dropkick Here and there HHH Moveset: Punches, Kicks, High-Knee, Various Slams, Suplex, Clotheslines, Elbows, Pedigree, Headlock's That's pretty much their moves for any match...So the situation is like this...Benoit's moves are a bit more "Explosive" in their nature....While HHH's moves are more methodical and focus on "wearing the opponent out" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted September 25, 2003 It's been shown and stated time and time again, and even in this forum, that the IWC is only a small fraction of the wrestling fan base. No- marks DO take title belts seriously. WCW basically told their fans that the belt was a complete joke on 1.4.99 WWF did stuff like the double switch at IX and Diesel winning in 8 seconds and they went down the toilet. In 1999 WWF could afford to fuck around with their belt for a bit but in 2000 (for the most part) they made their WWF title a serious belt once again- and did insane business. Marks DO care about titles Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mulatto Heat Report post Posted September 25, 2003 What was the point of that, vex? NOTHING. Try again, please. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dubq 0 Report post Posted September 25, 2003 It's been shown and stated time and time again, and even in this forum, that the IWC is only a small fraction of the wrestling fan base. No- marks DO take title belts seriously. WCW basically told their fans that the belt was a complete joke on 1.4.99 WWF did stuff like the double switch at IX and Diesel winning in 8 seconds and they went down the toilet. In 1999 WWF could afford to fuck around with their belt for a bit but in 2000 (for the most part) they made their WWF title a serious belt once again- and did insane business. Marks DO care about titles I wasn't talking about the belts. I was talking about the revenues. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted September 25, 2003 Well a good champion=good revenue. Triple H should've dropped the belt at Wrestlemania or at the worst Summerslam. Instead he dragged down himself, the belt and Booker T. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dubq 0 Report post Posted September 25, 2003 What was the point of that, vex? NOTHING. Try again, please. I think he was harkening back to the portion of conversation that dealt with HHH and Benoit's post-injury wrestling styles... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Loss Report post Posted September 25, 2003 Yeah, and when the focus was put back on wrestling and titles, the company had their biggest year ever in 2000 financially. So there you go. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mulatto Heat Report post Posted September 25, 2003 Well, I wasn't talking about the styles. I was talking about the matches. Quality is NOT entirely dependent on how original a moveset is. For instance, Albert has one of the more unique offensive styles around but where are the Albert Classics? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest vex_hecubus Report post Posted September 25, 2003 What's the point? Maybe you kind of forgot your thinking cap. Point is this...Both men WORK very similar...Yet you *cough*smart marks*coughs* are too busy pulling your dicks out to jerk off to the guy who can do 10 german suplexes in one match...Compared to a guy who wears down and works his opponent over. Another case in point...Look at their mic skills...Do not tell me in a MILLION years that Benoit has decent mic skills...He's gotten better over the years but MY GOD! HHH on the other hand...Sure he's not The Rock with Charisma on the mic...But by god he speaks better then Benoit does. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2GOLD 0 Report post Posted September 25, 2003 I give Triple H credit for one thing, he is the only white wrestler I can remember recently to get in a racist angle and WIN the feud. That is still impressive. Maybe the Triple H title run wouldn't have been so bad if JR didn't turn into an older and dumber version of Tony Schiavone? Maybe the real blame is JR. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Loss Report post Posted September 25, 2003 I should also mention that prior to the love triangle when everything fell apart, the angles were very simple and involved a strong heel with a strong babyface chasing him with all odds against him and finally getting the belt back. This is what wrestling is and always has been. For all the nuttiness of the creative team, the more simple they are in their approach, the more effective the results. It's time that lesson is learned and fully accepted. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mulatto Heat Report post Posted September 25, 2003 Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that the way someone speaks affects how well a match is laid out and executed. But then again, apparently I loooooved DX back in the day, just because you said so. Jesus. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dubq 0 Report post Posted September 25, 2003 Work time is over, and I have a concert to go to this evening. So I'm leaving this where it is..well, for now anyways. As for that last comment I'm not going to sit here and repeat myself... so, the jist of it... I said that the IWC's opinions mean shit in the long rung - IWC - INTERNET WRESTLING COMMUNITY, aka smarks. And I was also saying that the marks are where the money comes from and don't care or even know about any of this holding down bullshit and are into the wrestlers for their character, hence the whole point of going to house shows and seeing that HHH is just as over as Jericho with the marks. Like I said, it's like talking to bricks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ManKinnd Report post Posted September 25, 2003 Benoit love is still justifiable because he had 10+ great years. HHH had ONE. ONE. And smarks will turn on their darlings when the start sucking, like Regal and Storm. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Loss Report post Posted September 25, 2003 Yeah, because God forbid you have an opinion based on what you actually enjoy personally instead of telling us that our opinions don't matter. Smark, smark, smark, stick a label on it and categorize everyone because it's convenient. Gotta love it. I wish I got the feeling that you honestly believed what you were saying instead of yelling at a bunch of wrestling fans telling them that they don't understand wrestling fans. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RollingSambos Report post Posted September 25, 2003 I hate it when people excuse HHH's cutthroat politics by saying that he is just following the American model for doing business. First off, I don't respect the greedy corporations that own this country or their business practices and I don't think that I'm alone there. But let's say that I did endorse American business practices... HHH is still doing BAD BUSINESS. HHH is not a company...WWE is the company. He is not in competition with his fellow wrestlers (except in his own mind). He is a member of a team. His goal should be to promote the company (and not himself) so that the company can make more money and in turn he can make more money. If he isn't drawing, then he should do what's good for the BUSINESS, step aside, and let somebody else draw. But HHH isn't really some genius businessman, he's just an egomaniac. Plain and simple. HHH wants desperately to be what The Rock and Steve Austin were: the guy on top of the business during a wrestling boom. That is what he wants...the glory. He makes excuses about how the business is in a recession, and he buries everybody else in the meantime so that when the business does pick up, he'll be the guy on top and he can go, "Look at me! I am the man! I made wrestling what it is!" If he were a little more humble, he would realize that he can't draw flies to shit and he is actually retarding the growth of the business. HHH needs to realize that he is NOT the next big breakout star who is going to light a fire under the wrestling business, and he needs to step aside and let whoever that star is break through the glass ceiling. With the way things are going, wrestling is never going to pick back up because HHH kills off anybody who looks like they might be connecting with the fans. His ego just cannot handle the fact that he is NOT the chosen one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest vex_hecubus Report post Posted September 25, 2003 Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that the way someone speaks affects how well a match is laid out and executed. What are you clueless? Wrestler 1 talks trash about Wrestler 2 Wrestler 2 retaliates over Wrestler 1's comments A match is made. How about thinking "OUTSIDE OF THE RING" for the full scope of it all...It's called looking at and observing the overall picture of two wrestlers. One who you all just jump on the bandwagon and say is shit and the other you'd instantly suck his cock because it was BENOIT'S cock. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted September 25, 2003 While HHH's moves are more methodical Isn't that JR's code word for "boring"? I KNOW Test/Kane at No Mercy was called methodical Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Loss Report post Posted September 25, 2003 And I'm not trying to defend HHH. I'm really not. But the future is gloomy and I ultimately blame Vince McMahon more than anyone else, just because he's the one who allows everything to happen. Blaming Stephanie, Undertaker, JR, HHH or anyone else besides the big cheese for anything that goes wrong is diversionary. Vince has 30 years of promoting experience and should know better than to be making some of the classic promoter mistakes that have been made in the past three years. But because he's so delusional and is surrounded by an army of yes men who wouldn't dare offend him by suggesting that things change, things are never going to change. And it's sad, but I think the Benoit/Jericho/Guerrero/RVD generation is the last generation of great workers we'll see, just because we're under a monopoly, and typically, in the past, the most talented guys have been the ones who wrestled everywhere and picked up a little something from each promotion to combine their influences into a workable style. There will always be some who are better than others, but I think the world-traveled wrestler is a dying breed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mulatto Heat Report post Posted September 25, 2003 That's idiot logic to judge a match based on how well the BUILDUP was. Scope or not, a match should be judged on how well the MATCH went. Not a promo. And it still doesn't explain the noticeable differences in quality between the two wrestlers in question. You certainly haven't done it. Well, convincingly, at least. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted September 25, 2003 Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't aware that the way someone speaks affects how well a match is laid out and executed. What are you clueless? Wrestler 1 talks trash about Wrestler 2 Wrestler 2 retaliates over Wrestler 1's comments A match is made Or, in HHHland Wrestler one earns a title shot. Wrestler two says wrestler one isn't good enough because he's black. A match is made. Wrestler two wins cleanly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2GOLD 0 Report post Posted September 25, 2003 I think Vince went bye-bye mentally years ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted September 25, 2003 First, I don't recall ever NOT liking HHH. Second, I'm glad to see that someone keeps up with their history on this forum, even though none of it matters. Though, it's no secret that I admire Trips and encourage him to hold down as many whiney Smark Darlings as possible. I also encourage him to fuck the bosses daughter and to one day [hopefully] take over WWE so that we can all bask in the greatness that is The Game forever and ever, amen. PS - none of that was sarcasm. It seems to me like you're actively trying to generate negative responses from posters. Care to comment on that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kahran Ramsus 0 Report post Posted September 25, 2003 I spent most of the summer talking to marks and they all agreed on three main things. 1) Trish is hot. 2) Kane is the most interesting wrestler in the company. 3) HHH wins too much and they've lost interest as a result. Keep in mind that these people have no knowledge of the backstage stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RollingSambos Report post Posted September 25, 2003 My old roommate claimed that he wasn't a fan of wrestling, but whenever I'd have RAW on and he was doing his homework he'd wind up getting sucked in. He'd be like, "I can't stop watching this, I hate you." However, the one thing that could kill his interest and send him away was HHH. Whenever HHH was wrestling, he'd either leave the room or go back to his homework. He'd be like, "Fuck this, this guy never loses. Isn't he boning Vince's daughter?" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lil' Bitch 0 Report post Posted September 26, 2003 I give Triple H credit for one thing, he is the only white wrestler I can remember recently to get in a racist angle and WIN the feud. Even though he was supposed to job that night. Anyway, about HHH being gone for awhile: *sings "Beautiful Day" Good riddance to bad rubbish. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dubq 0 Report post Posted September 26, 2003 If he were a little more humble, he would realize that he can't draw flies to shit and he is actually retarding the growth of the business. Right. You're a fool if you think that HHH is the sole reason WWE is losing money. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bob_barron 0 Report post Posted September 26, 2003 April 2nd, 2001- HHH gets out of turning face and runs out and aligns with Austin and turns heel. The WWF starts going downhill after that. What were you saying again? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
