If earth was the WWE folder...

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

"Brock Lesnar's pretty solid in the ring and can produce *** matches pretty easily."

 

I have only seen a handful of 3-star matches with him. 2 vs. Angle, vs. Rock, and the 2 v. Taker (not Unforgiven last yrs). I probably missed 1 or 2 but none of his matches besides HiaC v. Taker and WM XIX stands out.

 

I don't know how that constitutes he can have them easily.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Considering he's only been wrestling for a year or two that's not bad. Shouldn't have said easily although he has them more frequently then others(Randy Orton for example)

[Damaramu 0]

Considering he's only been wrestling for a year or two that's not bad. Shouldn't have said easily although he has them more frequently then others(Randy Orton for example)

Eh...I've never been impressed with Brock....I actually have never liked a match of his.......ever......

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Ya, Orton wrestling Maven, Jindrak & Cade every week sure will produce *** matches. (laughs)

 

Ortons only match where he could have a chance for 3-stars was vs. HBK and that didn't hit the target. **1/2 I'd say.

 

Brock was shoved down our throats week after week and he fought pretty much most of the roster. (More SD than RAW) Orton wrestles the same stale people who we know suck and can't pull out a wrestling match past 1975.

 

 

"ARM BAR! ARM BAR! ARM BAR!"

 

"OMG DROPKICK! THATS IT! ITS OVER!"

[bob_barron 0]

Brock was green as shit for a long time when he first debuted and yet he still had good matches with Bubba Ray Dudley of all people.

 

Brock has been involved in many good-great matches with all different kinds of workers.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

Benoit has a certain intensity about him in the ring though which personally helps pull me in. I like Angle as much as the next guy but to say he's a better worker then Benoit is just asinine on any level. He may be more fun to watch but he's nowhere as good wrestling wise as Benoit is(In terms of selling, transitioning, etc.)

 

Also I did admit that Angle has the edge character and mic wise, just not wrestling wise(overall in-ring)

Who says what is a good wrestler? Really, its so fucking subjective. Where is this rule book on what is deemed a "good worker". Honestly, answer that. Why is Benoit considered better than Angle? You say because he doesn't sell. But Goldberg sells better than Benoit yet he is shit on by everyone. Steiner vs. Triple H from the Rumble was called the worst match of the year, why? Because Steiner slipped once? There wasn't any restholds, there was action for the whole 15 minutes. This is my problem with all you little "smarks". You're all fed bullshit by morons like Scott Keith no what is considered a good wrestler or a good match, and negate any form of independent thought on the matter. And thats why you're all a bunch of sheep. Its a boring fucking cop out to cream over Benoit all the time, it really is. Diversify your tastes.

[Guest The Old Me]

I like Brock as a worker. I think he could run circles around Benoit.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

I like Brock as a worker. I think he could run circles around Benoit.

Bah. He's just as mechanical as Benoit. He has the same amount of charisma as Benoit. He just has that ass kicking auro about him...which is nice.

[Guest The Old Me]

He may not have as much charisma, but the guy is fucking BAD ASS.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

He may not have as much charisma, but the guy is fucking BAD ASS.

Thats the ass kicking auro I was talking about....ass.

[Guest The Old Me]

Yeah well, Brock > Steiner!

 

HA!

[Damaramu 0]

Ok if what is a good worker is so subjective then why should I care what the fuck that you or New Me have to say about Benoit? It all comes down to what I care about.

New Me can say "Benoit sucks" with no backing whatsoever and I can say "Benoit Rules" with no backing whatsoever....get where I'm going? It renders discussing ANYTHING pointless.

[Guest The Old Me]

Ok if what is a good worker is so subjective then why should I care what the fuck that you or New Me have to say about Benoit? It all comes down to what I care about.

New Me can say "Benoit sucks" with no backing whatsoever and I can say "Benoit Rules" with no backing whatsoever....get where I'm going? It renders discussing ANYTHING pointless.

EXACTLY. It's all subjective to the person watching. Just like any award or anything like that. Vince apparently doesn't think Benoit has "it". And his opinion is the one that ultimately matters.

[Damaramu 0]

Ok if what is a good worker is so subjective then why should I care what the fuck that you or New Me have to say about Benoit? It all comes down to what I care about.

New Me can say "Benoit sucks" with no backing whatsoever and I can say "Benoit Rules" with no backing whatsoever....get where I'm going? It renders discussing ANYTHING pointless.

EXACTLY. It's all subjective to the person watching. Just like any award or anything like that. Vince apparently doesn't think Benoit has "it". And his opinion is the one that ultimately matters.

Yes and Vince's opinion obviously shouldn't matter since it is drawing SHIT right now. Vince should listen to the opinions of others as well....because right now he obviously isn't. And that would really help a lot.

[Guest The Old Me]

It's ultimately his company though, and until he REALLY starts losing money hand over fist, I doubt he'll change it.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

Hmmmm...me goofing around pretending Benoit sucks really lit some people up.

 

How can anyone really take him serious when he has "Toothless Aggression" written on his tights? (Spelling may not be correct)

 

Oh, blame Angle again for that. (Cough: Bald Angle can't grow hair so he uses a toupee and Rick Steiners amatuer wrestling head-piece)

[Damaramu 0]

And there really is a way to judge if Wrestler A is better than Wrestler B.

Does wrestler A's matches make sense?

Are wrestler A's matches entertaining?

Does wrestler A work safe?

Does wrestler A seem to work his ass off?

These are all things that should be considered. Now you can get into whether Benoit is better than Big Show. Look at these things it's obvious that Benoit is better.

And if you're going to say "Well Benoit did blah blah blah on SD!" then forget it. It's very hard to judge based on WWE style. Fact is that style hampers everyone and forces everyone to wrestle the same match. Some are better at it(angle) and some just downright suck at it(mark henry). If you look at Benoit's work from ANYWHERE ELSE in the world you'll see why he's a world class athlete. Fact is that Benoit IS as good as everyone says he is. Just because you have some kind of vendetta against Smarks and want to disagree with everything they say doesn't mean you have to be blinded. And I don't give a fuck what SK says. The man fucking contradicts himself in every paragraph. His opinion has been deemed irrelavent because....he doesn't even seem to fucking know what it is! He's bought into his own bullshit. He doesn't even give reasons for why a match is good or bad...he just says "because I said so." So if anyone blindly follows SK and his opinions...they have a problem.

And now back to Benoit. He is a world class athlete. He does have consistently good matches even against bad workers. He can work other styles. He is good...face it.

And don't say "Well this is subjective anyways" because that's a fucking cop out. Back up your shit.

[Guest Fire and Knives]

But Goldberg sells better than Benoit yet he is shit on by everyone.

I'm curious to see an example of Goldberg's selling being better than Benoit's.

 

K.

[Guest The Old Me]

And there really is a way to judge if Wrestler A is better than Wrestler B.

Does wrestler A's matches make sense?

Are wrestler A's matches entertaining?

Does wrestler A work safe?

Does wrestler A seem to work his ass off?

These are all things that should be considered. Now you can get into whether Benoit is better than Big Show. Look at these things it's obvious that Benoit is better.

And if you're going to say "Well Benoit did blah blah blah on SD!" then forget it. It's very hard to judge based on WWE style. Fact is that style hampers everyone and forces everyone to wrestle the same match. Some are better at it(angle) and some just downright suck at it(mark henry). If you look at Benoit's work from ANYWHERE ELSE in the world you'll see why he's a world class athlete. Fact is that Benoit IS as good as everyone says he is. Just because you have some kind of vendetta against Smarks and want to disagree with everything they say doesn't mean you have to be blinded. And I don't give a fuck what SK says. The man fucking contradicts himself in every paragraph. His opinion has been deemed irrelavent because....he doesn't even seem to fucking know what it is! He's bought into his own bullshit. He doesn't even give reasons for why a match is good or bad...he just says "because I said so." So if anyone blindly follows SK and his opinions...they have a problem.

And now back to Benoit. He is a world class athlete. He does have consistently good matches even against bad workers. He can work other styles. He is good...face it.

And don't say "Well this is subjective anyways" because that's a fucking cop out. Back up your shit.

But it all depends on what a person is entertained by. I know many people who like the backstage stuff just as much, if not more than the wrestling. And Benoit has NOTHING to offer those people. HHH can have a decent match. Maybe not as technically sound as a Benoit match, but his antics outside of the ring make up for that in my book. Benoit out of the ring=turn the channel.

 

You also have to take into account people's styles. I happen to find RVD's matches generally more innovative that Benoit's. RVD has a totally different style than him, so how can you really compare? Maybe RVD can't sell worth a lick, but Benoit can't hit a highspot as nice as RVD, It's tit for tat really.

[Damaramu 0]

And there really is a way to judge if Wrestler A is better than Wrestler B.

Does wrestler A's matches make sense?

Are wrestler A's matches entertaining?

Does wrestler A work safe?

Does wrestler A seem to work his ass off?

These are all things that should be considered. Now you can get into whether Benoit is better than Big Show. Look at these things it's obvious that Benoit is better.

And if you're going to say "Well Benoit did blah blah blah on SD!" then forget it. It's very hard to judge based on WWE style. Fact is that style hampers everyone and forces everyone to wrestle the same match. Some are better at it(angle) and some just downright suck at it(mark henry). If you look at Benoit's work from ANYWHERE ELSE in the world you'll see why he's a world class athlete. Fact is that Benoit IS as good as everyone says he is. Just because you have some kind of vendetta against Smarks and want to disagree with everything they say doesn't mean you have to be blinded. And I don't give a fuck what SK says. The man fucking contradicts himself in every paragraph. His opinion has been deemed irrelavent because....he doesn't even seem to fucking know what it is! He's bought into his own bullshit. He doesn't even give reasons for why a match is good or bad...he just says "because I said so." So if anyone blindly follows SK and his opinions...they have a problem.

And now back to Benoit. He is a world class athlete. He does have consistently good matches even against bad workers. He can work other styles. He is good...face it.

And don't say "Well this is subjective anyways" because that's a fucking cop out. Back up your shit.

But it all depends on what a person is entertained by. I know many people who like the backstage stuff just as much, if not more than the wrestling. And Benoit has NOTHING to offer those people. HHH can have a decent match. Maybe not as technically sound as a Benoit match, but his antics outside of the ring make up for that in my book. Benoit out of the ring=turn the channel.

 

You also have to take into account people's styles. I happen to find RVD's matches generally more innovative that Benoit's. RVD has a totally different style than him, so how can you really compare? Maybe RVD can't sell worth a lick, but Benoit can't hit a highspot as nice as RVD, It's tit for tat really.

Have you seen more Benoit than in the WWE? The man did plenty of shit other than what he does now. Fact is to really judge these men we have to see them outside of the WWE. If they've never wrestled outside of the WWE then there may be a problem because the WWE style produces THE WORST kind of wrestlers.

Second off yes somebody may be more entertained by the backstage stuff and Benoit may not be able to do it...that's why you......DON'T PUT HIM BACK THERE. The man's proven he can get over on his in ring work alone. Most fans recognize him as a good wrestler....as a matter of fact I don't think that I've ever had a mark say "He sucks" before. I'll say Benoit is my fav and they'll say "Yeah he's pretty good." not "Oh man he sucks. That guy bores the hell out of me." Fact is he has exciting matches....and he can usually get the crowd going with them. I think it's a testament that he has enough in ring charisma to not say anything and still get everyone cheering for him.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

But Goldberg sells better than Benoit yet he is shit on by everyone.

I'm curious to see an example of Goldberg's selling being better than Benoit's.

 

K.

1. When Batista Pillmanized his ankle

 

2. Godberg vs. Rock, he sold his shoulder the entire match without missing a step. He didn't flub once, and it was convincing.

[Damaramu 0]

But Goldberg sells better than Benoit yet he is shit on by everyone.

I'm curious to see an example of Goldberg's selling being better than Benoit's.

 

K.

1. When Batista Pillmanized his ankle

 

2. Godberg vs. Rock, he sold his shoulder the entire match without missing a step. He didn't flub once, and it was convincing.

And? He sold like he's SUPPOSED to. Plenty of wrestlers do that. Hell Benoit does that. I don't fail to see how that makes him a better seller when he's spent the majority of his career not selling shit.

[Guest Fire and Knives]

But Goldberg sells better than Benoit yet he is shit on by everyone.

I'm curious to see an example of Goldberg's selling being better than Benoit's.

 

K.

1. When Batista Pillmanized his ankle

 

2. Godberg vs. Rock, he sold his shoulder the entire match without missing a step. He didn't flub once, and it was convincing.

Goldberg sold reasonably well in the Rock match, yes - but I really don't see how that's better than pretty much any Benoit match I've seen. One above average performance hardly justifies placing him above Benoit in terms of selling ability.

 

K.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

But Goldberg sells better than Benoit yet he is shit on by everyone.

I'm curious to see an example of Goldberg's selling being better than Benoit's.

 

K.

1. When Batista Pillmanized his ankle

 

2. Godberg vs. Rock, he sold his shoulder the entire match without missing a step. He didn't flub once, and it was convincing.

Goldberg sold reasonably well in the Rock match, yes - but I really don't see how that's better than pretty much any Benoit match I've seen. One above average performance hardly justifies placing him above Benoit in terms of selling ability.

 

K.

To me, Goldberg's selling is better, because it stands out more than Benoits. Benoit is fine, but Goldberg's is believable...he seriously agonized over his shoulder the entire match with Rock...that never happens with Benoit. Benoit bumps well, but his extended selling has never stood out to me.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

But Goldberg sells better than Benoit yet he is shit on by everyone.

I'm curious to see an example of Goldberg's selling being better than Benoit's.

 

K.

1. When Batista Pillmanized his ankle

 

2. Godberg vs. Rock, he sold his shoulder the entire match without missing a step. He didn't flub once, and it was convincing.

And? He sold like he's SUPPOSED to. Plenty of wrestlers do that. Hell Benoit does that. I don't fail to see how that makes him a better seller when he's spent the majority of his career not selling shit.

Damaramu, don't be a fucker. I gave two instances when he sold, what kind of retort is "well he's supposed to". They were two examples, nothing more. Its not like I'm proclaiming Goldberg to be God because he went out of his way to sell.

[Guest Fire and Knives]

But Goldberg sells better than Benoit yet he is shit on by everyone.

I'm curious to see an example of Goldberg's selling being better than Benoit's.

 

K.

1. When Batista Pillmanized his ankle

 

2. Godberg vs. Rock, he sold his shoulder the entire match without missing a step. He didn't flub once, and it was convincing.

Goldberg sold reasonably well in the Rock match, yes - but I really don't see how that's better than pretty much any Benoit match I've seen. One above average performance hardly justifies placing him above Benoit in terms of selling ability.

 

K.

To me, Goldberg's selling is better, because it stands out more than Benoits. Benoit is fine, but Goldberg's is believable...he seriously agonized over his shoulder the entire match with Rock...that never happens with Benoit. Benoit bumps well, but his extended selling has never stood out to me.

I'd offer that Goldberg's selling stands out because his entire WCW tenure was built around him not selling a damn thing. I suppose it's just a question of what an individual prefers to see.

 

K.

[Damaramu 0]

But Goldberg sells better than Benoit yet he is shit on by everyone.

I'm curious to see an example of Goldberg's selling being better than Benoit's.

 

K.

1. When Batista Pillmanized his ankle

 

2. Godberg vs. Rock, he sold his shoulder the entire match without missing a step. He didn't flub once, and it was convincing.

And? He sold like he's SUPPOSED to. Plenty of wrestlers do that. Hell Benoit does that. I don't fail to see how that makes him a better seller when he's spent the majority of his career not selling shit.

Damaramu, don't be a fucker. I gave two instances when he sold, what kind of retort is "well he's supposed to". They were two examples, nothing more. Its not like I'm proclaiming Goldberg to be God because he went out of his way to sell.

Well he IS supposed to. Yes.....I applaud him for doing what he should to have a good match. That's great. If more people would do it then that would be great.

[Guest The Winter Of My Discontent]

I'd offer that Goldberg's selling stands out because his entire WCW tenure was built around him not selling a damn thing. I suppose it's just a question of what an individual prefers to see.

 

K.

It definately adds more to the match. It isn't as lopsided and humanizes him as a wrestler. I never cared for the cyborg style Goldberg from WCW. But when such a monster sells an injury in such a drastic way, its like "wow", y'know...it just has a greater impact.

[Damaramu 0]

I'd offer that Goldberg's selling stands out because his entire WCW tenure was built around him not selling a damn thing. I suppose it's just a question of what an individual prefers to see.

 

K.

It definately adds more to the match. It isn't as lopsided and humanizes him as a wrestler. I never cared for the cyborg style Goldberg from WCW. But when such a monster sells an injury in such a drastic way, its like "wow", y'know...it just has a greater impact.

I'm going to agree with you there.

It does add more to see a monster sell hardcore. That's why I've been saying.....people will buy smaller guys going over big guys if *SHOCK* they just fucking sold for them!

[Guest Fire and Knives]

I never cared much for WCW Goldberg either - but I did get accustomed to the character. I don't think casual fans really want to see Goldberg humanized. They want him to beat whatever heel happens to be at the top of the card that month. I think the attempts the WWE have made at making Goldberg a more realistic character have damaged his drawing potential. I'm not saying that it's a bad idea, just that perhaps it should be done in a more gradual fashion than deciding to have a wrestler with a 170-something long winning streak suddenly sell for Mark Henry.

 

K.