Remember when the rock...

[Guest HartFan86]

...Used the Fisherman's Suplex? I was watching the Raw before KOTR 98 and he actually used it to beat HHH. Weird.

[Guest Anglesault]

It was a qualifyer for that years KOTR. He used it right after a low blow. Hunter was wearing those retarded purple pants. Yeah, I think I remember

[Guest Special K]

Which brings up the question, why don't wrestlers expand their movesets a bit? When you see something knew from a guy, (for the best example, I'd say HHH vs. Benoit where HHH pulls out an  inverted suplex and Bridging Indian Deathlock) It's exciting for the fans when this happens, and a couple of alternate basic moves are, I imagine very easy to learn.  Are wrestlers deliberately hampered by the WWF 'style' (i.e. told not to work outside a few set moves)? And i mean beyond the elimination of all drivers.

 

    P.S. since Jazz is allowed a fisherman's buster, why do we have no brainbusters fom the guys? They dissapeared about the time the piledrivers did.

[Guest JerryDrake]

Chavo used the brainbuster on Metal.

 

Speaking of Rocks Fisherman Suplex, he also used it on RVD, in a match for the WCW Title.

[Guest Zero_Cool]

Heh, you guys remember when Kane rana'd Albert.  It was a bit sloppy, yet pretty cool.

 

The only good thing I see coming out of the elimination of drivers, is that they look more dangerous again.  If on RAW tomorrow, we saw HHH piledrived by uhm..Lesnar, we'd think it would've killed Triple H.

[Guest HartFan86]

To say sorta on topic, I was thinking why can't the Rock do his old finisher, the shoulderbreaker anymore? I mean, it's not that great, but it's better than the constant slapping he does.

 

Also, why can't he do the fucking floatover DDT? That's one of the best DDT's I have ever seen

[Guest Human Fly]

Also, why doesn't HHH wear those fly purple pants anymore? I'm guessing Jeff Hardy stole them.

[Guest Some Guy]

Eddy will Brainbust(er) RVD at Backlash and RVD will sell it like he broke his neck.  Hopefully RVD will get DDTed, so we'll get his kick ass sell.

 

I agree with Special K about wrestlers needing to expand there movesets.  In 2000 they put Rock and HHH in programs with Benoit and they both learned new moves from The Man.  Wrestlers also should execute their moves properly or not do them at all.

[Guest]

Yeah, seriously. One of Lita's trademark moves is the hurricanrana off the top rope and she does it terribly. It's so sloppy. Then again, all of her moves are.

[Guest red_file]

Wrestlers also should execute their moves properly or not do them at all.

Which is probably why wrestlers abandon moves the further up the card they go.  They find a handful of moves that they can do almost without thinking and jetison the rest.  It makes matches on the top of the card a bit predictable but also make it so that main event wrestlers don't blow their spots all that much (at least, if they're trying).

 

Also, if a wrestler only has a certain number of moves, it makes it that much easier for his opponent to learn how to take and sell each of those moves.  Not that that should really be a problem with wrestlers at this level, but I'm sure if factors in a bit.

[Guest]

I guess it's just a style thing.  The WWF style is more centred on brawling and sports entertainment finishes than, say, submission wrestling or technical wrestling.  In particular, the main-event style seems to limit a lot of wrestlers in terms of what moves they pull out, for example, Angle, Jericho and Benoit have all used less moves since main-eventing.

 

The other factor is the busy schedule the wrestlers have.  Vince doesn't want them injured perfroming a risky move.  

 

I guess though, if two wrestlers mutually agree, they can get away with dangerous moves in bigger matches.  I agree that RVD will take some bick neck bumps in his forthcoming series with Guerrero - RVD isn't afraid to take neck/head bumps as can be seen from his selling of the Release German Suplex, Regal's Half Nelson Suplex and the DDT.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

I totally agree that wrestlers should learn and use more moves, but it makes total sense for them not to, I mean the crowd only really pops for the signature moves and occasionally a new move anyway.

 

Besides Lita, there are a ton of wrestlers who I dislike because they use the same movesets over and over and over.  The worst offenders include Rikishi (whose gimmick is that he has a big ass and rubs it in people's face? give me a break!), Stone Cold Steve Austin (brawl brawl, Lou Thesz press, brawl brawl, stunner, match), The Rock (over-sell, suplex, over-sell, "second wind" with no-sell punches/spit punch, DDT, spinebuster, People's Elbow or Rock Bottom), Undertaker (no-sell, brawl, no-sell, chokeslam, Last Ride, although I did appreciate him adding I think it was the Dragon Sleeper to his repertoire), and most of all... that bastard MAVEN (sell, sell, drop-kick, missile drop-kick, get pinned).

 

But I guess not everyone can be a Benoit, Malenko, Angle, or RVD, and pull out a new move every time, or at least make it seem that way.

[Guest Special K]

I agree they should stick to what they know best, but you can't tell me that Rock couldn't have learned a new move in the past 3 years or so! Not that I hate the Rock or anything, he's just, along w.  HHH a prime offender of guys with limited movesets.

    Plus, Austin can do more moves than he lets on as well! Remember the suplex-fest match he had on Raw (when HHH returned from being muredered by Austin), He move busting them out!

[Guest Some Guy]

"I totally agree that wrestlers should learn and use more moves, but it makes total sense for them not to, I mean the crowd only really pops for the signature moves and occasionally a new move anyway."

 

So they should create more "Signature" moves.  The crowd pops for everything that Rock and Austin do, so why not give back and add a few more moves to their routine.  It seems that after Rock started using a Spinebuster that evryone all of the sudden used a Spinebuster (Austin, HHH, Booker (even though he used it in WCW, Angle, and a few others), same for Benoit and the Chops, now everybody uses chops.

 

Rock should bring back his cool tilt-a-whirl slam and the proper Belly-to-Belly, Austin should use the Stun Gun more often, Angle should have Tazz teach him some new Suplexes.

[Guest The Man They Call Texas Blu]

Kurt Angles suplexes are getting a little old, but nobody does them better.

[Guest Brian]

I wish that wrestlers would take a small number of moves, build them up as signature spots, then gradually add and detract as needed. Rock has a bunch of moves on the shelf as does HHH. Angle could afford to add some. Benoit could afford to add some, as towards the end of the run (maybe because of his neck) he was falling into that monotony of punching-punching-punching-whip-move-etc.

[Guest evenflowDDT]

So they should create more "Signature" moves.  The crowd pops for everything that Rock and Austin do, so why not give back and add a few more moves to their routine.

For The Rock and Austin I totally agree, if the crowd'll pop for them doing basic punches and chops, they owe it to themselves as well as the crowd to liven up their matches a bit with some new moves.  For others that are less over, that may not be as easy as it sounds, since basically these guys' only signature moves are their finisher or the setup for it (e.g. Scotty's bulldog that sets up the Worm is only popped for because it sets up the Worm), and sometimes (for the true lower-midcarders) not even those get a pop.  Also, given the short match lengths on TV, its not very easy to work in anything other than the current signature spots, as for guys who AREN'T The Rock or Austin (to whom apparently every move, no matter how banal, is a crowd-pleaser), if they don't put in the formula match that sets up the signature move, they will be unsatisfied with the match.  Apparently these people never tire of seeing essentially the same match over and over again, and that is something I still sometimes have trouble coming to terms with.

[Guest]

This is the WWF.  Why in the world should they have to know any wrestling moves.

 

Throw in a back rake, an eye gouge, a boot to the chin and then a leg drop.  You got it made.

[Guest Nater]

This is the WWF.  Why in the world should they have to know any wrestling moves.

 

Throw in a back rake, an eye gouge, a boot to the chin and then a leg drop.  You got it made.

 

You said it Brother!!

 

 

 

(edit: might wanna make that image go in your signature)

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

Benoit could afford to add some, as towards the end of the run (maybe because of his neck) he was falling into that monotony of punching-punching-punching-whip-move-etc.

Yeah, his style was definetly getting brought down by the WWF. I'd love to see him use powerbombs, full nelson suplexes etc when he comes back.

 

It would be great if Rock and HHH just learnt one new move each. Just ONE!

[Guest chirs3]

I would love to see Triple H bring back his shinbreaker.

 

That and lose the title, but this thread's about moves.

[Guest Brian]

They don't even need to learn new moves. They probably each have two or three moves they used in the iron man match that they don't use now. Or one move from before they became a full-fledged main eventer. The moves are definately there.

[Guest Dace59]

You gotta learn all the basics when you start, and some of the easier ones.. I don't think they'd all know how to do a Star Dust Press or a Hammerlock cross leg fisherman's inverted piledriver.. but still.. it isn't far to show WWF only fans something very new.

[Guest Goodear]

I agree they should stick to what they know best, but you can't tell me that Rock couldn't have learned a new move in the past 3 years or so! Not that I hate the Rock or anything, he's just, along w.  HHH a prime offender of guys with limited movesets.

    Plus, Austin can do more moves than he lets on as well! Remember the suplex-fest match he had on Raw (when HHH returned from being muredered by Austin), He move busting them out!

Rock is actually one of the better guys at adding moves to his regular set.  He's certainly been better at it than Benoit, who really hasn't added a new wrinkle to his moves since the rolling Germans, and that was back in his WCW days.  Shoot, as sloppy as Rock's execution is when he adds a new move (dragonscrew legwhip, sharpshooter, belly-to-belly) you would think people would want him to stick with the moves he actually executes well (DDT, Rock Bottom, Samoan drop).

 Moveset is vastly overrated anyway.  I just caught some CZW while I visiting my parents over the weekend and the guys had all these really wicked moves.  But the problem was, the guys didn't know how to use them in a meaningful way.  So these dudes would be head dropping, shooting star pressing, and cartwheeling, but they couldn't put a match together in a interesting way.  And on the other side of the spectrum, you have Ric Flair, who hasn't changed his moveset in years and can still construct a good match.  Which one of these are going to be remembered in 5 years?  I think we all know the answer to that.

[Guest thebear]

The best was when he busted out la magistrial...

 

I really think the rock (Being arguably the top star in the WWF) has the most untapped talent in wrestling.. He's extremly athletic and charismatic...

 

He probably could pull out alot of shit, just chooses not to

[Guest Dace59]

He's certainly been better at it than Benoit, who really hasn't added a new wrinkle to his moves since the rolling Germans, and that was back in his WCW days.

 

I'm sure Benoit started using Rolling German's back in Japan. Or was after some WCW work?

[Guest]

I remember going off the top rope alot, doing that wrap around DDT, and even doing Hurricanrana's before he was a  main eventer, which leads me to believe the reason why the move sets is so limited for WWF main eventers, because they believe they don't need them At the top.

 

Take Austin, he was trained Oldschool wrestling fashion by Chris Adams, he did alot of mat oriented wrestling Suplexes piledrivers, and of course a different finisher each promotion, Hotshot and Cobra clutch. But now he's at Main event level, you can count the number of actual Wrestling moves on your hands.

[Guest Dace59]

Rock stopped going up top when he blew out his knees, same with his float over DDT.

 

Tripple used to do a fucking brillaint clothesline counter float over DDT. He'd catch the crook the arm,jump and swing/roll over the dudes back, catch his head on the way over and land in a DDT without his feet touching the floor.. I loved it.

[Guest muzanisa]

I wish he'd drop the Sharpshooter. It looks so bad when Rock does it. Also when he stole the Crossface off Benoit, Angle did too with the multiple Germans. Whenever anyone who has a Submission finisher fights a M/E they get put in it and tap yet the M/E never does.

If you've seen any of Hogan's Japanese matches he has much more of a moveset than you'd think. The reason he doesn't use it is because when he's in the States he wrestles the style that people want to see there.

I agree that they should change a few moves every now and again as long as they're not someone elses (Shane McMahon I'm looking at you) but if they're on top and making money then they'll probably adopt the maxim "if it aint broke, don't fix it".

[Guest]

Moveset is vastly overrated anyway.  I just caught some CZW while I visiting my parents over the weekend and the guys had all these really wicked moves.  But the problem was, the guys didn't know how to use them in a meaningful way.  So these dudes would be head dropping, shooting star pressing, and cartwheeling, but they couldn't put a match together in a interesting way.  And on the other side of the spectrum, you have Ric Flair, who hasn't changed his moveset in years and can still construct a good match.  Which one of these are going to be remembered in 5 years?  I think we all know the answer to that.

I watch alot of CZW Who was on the show? I can tell you if they were some of the better guys at puting matches together or not.

 

And does the WWF tell people to do only a few moves? I hear stuff about the WWF but what is it? I'm sorry if This Was answered before