No Mercy

[AndrewTS 0]

Whoever complained that HCTP doesn't give the jobbers/cruisers a fair shake against the big-guys...well...isn't that pretty realistic?

 

Yeah--when making a video game, you want to mimic everything the real-life WWE does.

 

Also, any good fighting game has something called "character balance." Except for Joe Average characters, for every strength a guy should have a deficiency. Therefore, a character will suit a certain style of play but still have exploitable weaknesses. Thus, skill and not the attribute level itself, determines who wins. HCTP doesn't have that, and it threw out the balanced setup of SYM and other previous SD games for this boneheaded current setup.

 

Players of inferior skill can win based on pure luck in HCTP, because certain wrestlers have to inflict 10x the damage on another wrestler to win. Also, why the hell should a Hurracanrana by A-Train be more effective than a Mysterio one? Damage is determined solely by Strength, not wrestler style like it is in a good, well-balanced game like Fire Pro.

[Guest JacK]

The thing that annoys me are things such as Triple H with 8 speed . . . I mean, he's a big lumbering roid-freak . . . he ain't faster than Cena, and as fast as Edge (I think).

And why in the world can't Eddy Guerrero suplex Test? It's ridiculous.

Problem is not that jobbers/cruisers aren't given a fair shake; it's that people like Benoit/Angle/Jericho/Guerrero are biased against; though I guess it's a challenge. And once you get used to it, technique is like everything.

 

I always liked Smackdown One . . . I have no idea why. Preseason was fun, and I was bad enough that on the highest difficulty it was a sufficient challenge so I lost occassionally. I dunno, I liked that season mode for some reason, especially when me and my friend were a tag team that broke up; that was gold (cept for how he beat me up every month).

[Guest Ghettoman]

I was a NM engine diehard and all XIX and Raw for XBox did was infuriate me. Def Jam is the obvious progression of the engine but just behind in needed filler, HCTP takes it a step further with the grappling engine, which can either throw you off or make you fall in love.

 

Any game where I have four distinct movesets though gets my nod.

 

And whoever made the point about the skateboard, WTF are you talking about? Wheels are worse because they come in different sizes!?

[Guest Coffey]

I can win against better opponents in HCtP. It just takes practice. For example, I just beat Goldberg with a newly created CAW. You just have to beat on them about four times more than they beat on you, because you do so much less damage and take so much more of a beating.

 

As far as No Mercy is concerned, I bought it on release day. It's a great game, and probably the best WWF game ever created. It definitely has it's faults however. For example, the slow down with four players on the screen, the cropped entrances, etc. A lot of people say that if you turn off the BG music, it helps speed the game up. Well, not enough for it to matter. The appeal of all the previous N64 wrestling titles was the multipayer modes. No Mercy managed to fuck that up. Well, unless you had the memory expansion thing.

 

Good game, not the greatest wrestling game ever however. Best WWF game? Maybe.

[AndrewTS 0]

And whoever made the point about the skateboard, WTF are you talking about? Wheels are worse because they come in different sizes!?

I was extending your analogy. If you read my arguments you shouldn't need it explained to you. Wheels different sizes = the wrestlers having wildly different amounts of overall stats and the favoring of the "Strength" attribute.

 

Problem is not that jobbers/cruisers aren't given a fair shake; it's that people like Benoit/Angle/Jericho/Guerrero are biased against;

 

That's what I said--hosses and main eventers are favored, not the other way around. Most of the guys in the game are about at where their stats should be, but those guys have their stats overrated.

 

Only Henry and maybe Brock should have 10 for strength, but there are others around that area or close to it. Plus, that's the be-all end-all for damage determination.

 

Thing is, though, it's not a challenge, though. The A.I. still sucks, but you have to dish out 10 times the damage to win. In No Mercy, when you'd win a tough match, it looked competitive because even though the A.I. was counter-happy, the offense was usually about even. You'd have to be smart to win. In HCTP, you can be an average-sized midcarder, and the computer may get in 4 lucky moves (one of which might be a back elbow) and you lose. Or, if you're a cruiser, you have to NEVER be touched, and keep climbing the top rope, waiting for the opponents to run towards you and missile dropkick them, etc, etc.

 

That's stupid, that's flawed game play, and that's poor design.

 

For example, I just beat Goldberg with a newly created CAW. You just have to beat on them about four times more than they beat on you, because you do so much less damage and take so much more of a beating.

 

Four times my ass--they can beat you in four regular moves (that is, non-specials, perhaps one back elbow and three grapple moves). I think my "10x" remark is far closer to the truth, considering it takes about 40 moves to win a damn match.

[Guest Coffey]

I can win a match in five minutes or less every single time. You're doing something wrong.... Might I suggest that you focus on one body part (either the head or the torso depending on your finisher) and win that way.

 

If it's a match involving more than two people (I.E. tag matches of triple threats) win via submission with like a bear hug.

 

The game is very, very easy to me now that I got the hang of it.

[Mr. S£im Citrus 0]

I can win a match in five minutes or less every single time. You're doing something wrong.... Might I suggest that you focus on one body part (either the head or the torso depending on your finisher) and win that way.

May I ask how your attribute points are set up? I've just rented the game, and I created a CAW that's based on my e-fed character (all speed and NO power); I can't even beat Rico.

[Masked Man of Mystery 0]

It was the best WWF game better, but it wasn't the best in the series. WCW/NWO Revenge was more fun to play because of the greater mix of performers.

Nope - the best in the series is VPW2.

 

The only thing No Mercy is missing is luchadore masks.

I try playing No Mercy now and it's like watching two snails cross the fucking street. SLOOOOWWWW!

VPW2 has an incredible mask generator and no slowdown, plus it has an awesome shoot- fighting mode. It is greater then No Mercy.

 

Although I think WrestleMania XIX is a very underrated grappler - Revenge mode really kills it for most people, which I can understand.

I assume that is the Japanese game upon which one of the American AKI games is based on and would be rather hard to get in the US

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

And try playing HCTP in a Last Man Standing match against old Taker.... took me a hour to finally plant Taker for the 10 count.

[Guest Ghettoman]

Can anyone explain why strength shouldn't be the one to determine damage done!?

 

If Rey gives someone a hurricanrana, it's the strength of his legs that determines the impact of the move.

 

If Kane does a top rope clothesline, it's strength that determines how hard he'll hit.

 

We wouldn't have this complaint in reality, if Atrain hits a powerbomb, a shoulderblock from the top rope, a bicycle kick, and a double underhook suplex, it's going to be deadlier than if Jericho hit the same moves.

 

Speed makes you faster, technique makes reversals easier, submission makes submissions easier, endurance makes you last longer, and strength makes you stronger.

 

Where the hell does the complaint come from!?

[Guest Coffey]

When making a new guy, I put all of my points into Strength and Endurance.

 

Other than those two categories, the only other thing that matters is speed. Then again, the only time that will matter is in cage matches.

 

Then when I set my moves up, I made sure they all target around the same area. Having a figure four leglock when your finisher is a tombstone doesn't make much sense. However, if you have a dragon screw leg whip, a couple of leg kicks and then the figure four, it makes more sense.

 

I target the head because you can get the three count when your opponents head turns red. DDT's, clotheslines, etc. all target the head. I'm currently finishing with Piledriver #4.

[Guest Douche]

When making a new guy, I put all of my points into Strength and Endurance.

 

Other than those two categories, the only other thing that matters is speed. Then again, the only time that will matter is in cage matches.

 

Then when I set my moves up, I made sure they all target around the same area. Having a figure four leglock when your finisher is a tombstone doesn't make much sense. However, if you have a dragon screw leg whip, a couple of leg kicks and then the figure four, it makes more sense.

 

I target the head because you can get the three count when your opponents head turns red. DDT's, clotheslines, etc. all target the head. I'm currently finishing with Piledriver #4.

He knows in-ring psychology.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

Well, I'll be picking up Mania 19 tomorrow, I suppose.

 

Is it boring? The sound/graphics look pretty great...will it keep me busy?

[Guest DVD Spree]

I assume that is the Japanese game upon which one of the American AKI games is based on and would be rather hard to get in the US

Well, not really - getting an import game is no harder than getting a domestic game. All you do is call up an importer and give THEM your credit card details instead of giving them to EB. Either way, it does't change the fact that VPW2 kicks the holy hell out of No Mercy, SHOOT STYLE~!, and has fun doing it. Miracle Violence Connection baby.

 

Well, I'll be picking up Mania 19 tomorrow, I suppose.

 

Is it boring? The sound/graphics look pretty great...will it keep me busy?

I actually play Mania more than Def Jam, and this is from someone who's bought and played to death EVERY AKI wrestling game. I guess after the PS original, all the N64 incarnations, Kinnikuman and now Def Jam, the engine - awesome as it is - really has gone about as far as it can go. The Mania engine is spiritually realted to Aki's, and you'll feel right at home with it. There is no single player exhibition or season mode, just the Revenge mode, an amazing CAW and a load of multiplayer modes. You'll love it.

[Boner Kawanger 0]

I loved No Mercy until that damn bug hit my copy...

 

Five hours ago.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I'll make this easy:

 

In the Smackdown series, I'm out there trying to win. It's a fighting game.

 

In No Mercy, I'm out there trying to have a good match. It's a wrestling game.

 

I'd give the nod to WM2000 though, since it doesn't slow down, it has the same (if not better) A.I. as Revenge, it has a CAW, and it has quick tap outs (No Mercy doesn't, for some reason)

 

I just got RAW 2 for Christmas - I hated RAW 1 and didn't expect much from this - and you know what? I actually kinda enjoy the game. It has a similar grappling engine as No Mercy (grapple first, then do moves) and I think I could maybe get a good match outta the CPU if I worked at it - that's where the real value of a wrestling game is, for me. I don't care about storymode, I care about matches.

[Guest Rob Van Dam]

In my opinion you can't compare No Mercy with Smackdown 5. They came out in different years and are on two different systems. You have to compare the game to the other games that came out on that system and how good the game was when it came out. In my opinion Revenge, Wrestlemania 2000, and No Mercy all had major plusses. Gotta love Sting coming down from the rafters in the battle royal or to interfere in a match.

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

I assume that is the Japanese game upon which one of the American AKI games is based on and would be rather hard to get in the US

VPW2 came out before No Mercy (I believe), so I guess you could say NM was based on VPW2.

 

And, like Spree said, it shouldn't be that hard to get, provided you have a credit card. Most video game importers should have it (or be able to get it). Also, eBay is another way to get a copy.

[MooreMark 0]

Well, I'll be picking up Mania 19 tomorrow, I suppose.

 

Is it boring? The sound/graphics look pretty great...will it keep me busy?

It's really fun when you have friends over and your playing a 4-way. I haven't seen one go for less then 40 minutes. It's also great when you are playing a TLC match. Those are good fun but sometimes they don't end.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Well, I'll be picking up Mania 19 tomorrow, I suppose.

 

Is it boring?  The sound/graphics look pretty great...will it keep me busy?

It's really fun when you have friends over and your playing a 4-way. I haven't seen one go for less then 40 minutes. It's also great when you are playing a TLC match. Those are good fun but sometimes they don't end.

If you like the basic wrestling game and you're not much for storylines, then yes pick it up. Although I should point it out Mania XIX has a weird lighting thing going on.

[AndrewTS 0]

Can anyone explain why strength shouldn't be the one to determine damage done!?

 

Strength of what? A good wrestling game divides up how strong different areas of the body are offensively and defensively. In HCTP, it's just "Strength." Nothing else.

 

If Rey gives someone a hurricanrana, it's the strength of his legs that determines the impact of the move.

 

In game or real life? I didn't see a separate listing for leg strength, and in real life, the opponent does the move. Although for most Cruiser-style moves, MOMENTUM i.e. speed determines damage. Which looks more damaging, a slow-ass Hurri-Kane-Rana or a quick Hurricanrana?

 

Also, I mentioned not necessarily damage, but effectiveness. Why can a hoss get as much air on a Lionsault or Moonsault or other high-flying move as a Cruiser? What the hell?!

 

If Kane does a top rope clothesline, it's strength that determines how hard he'll hit.

 

And not momentum? Sure, whatever. What if he can't jump far enough to reach his opponent? What if his arm's worked over and it doesn't damage as much?

 

We wouldn't have this complaint in reality, if Atrain hits a powerbomb, a shoulderblock from the top rope, a bicycle kick, and a double underhook suplex, it's going to be deadlier than if Jericho hit the same moves.

 

Except for the Bicycle kick, all are power moves and he's a POWER WRESTLER! Of course they will be more effective! Bike kick works well because of his strength, and he moves fast enough to get some decent momentum. Strength + momentum = good damage. No argument there.

 

Now why don't the smaller guys, who in real life bump like motherfuckers, have higher endurance ratings than hosses?

 

When making a new guy, I put all of my points into Strength and Endurance.

 

Other than those two categories, the only other thing that matters is speed. 

 

Speed is a nearly worthless attribute. The marginal advantage you get isn't worth it because everyone moves at a decent clip anyway.

[Guest Ghettoman]

Why would they have more endurance!? Low level cruisers who job out to 1st level finishers on a regular basis should be able to last longer than a Brock why!?

 

Your complaints are basically 'well they didn't do it perfectly', as if it should of been overly classified. How about a system where you can regulate your calorie intake and improve your cardio so you can run faster?

 

And if those are your complaints, you should hate No Mercy which barely tracks damage beyond arms, legs, head.

[AndrewTS 0]

Why would they have more endurance!? Low level cruisers who job out to 1st level finishers on a regular basis should be able to last longer than a Brock why!?

 

Low-level hosses who are sucking wind within 2 minutes and never bump should be able to last longer than a high-level Cruiser or a mid-sized midcarder who bump way more and win why?!

 

You're basing what you think the stats should be on what stats WWE wants you to think they should be, rather than how they would be for real.

 

Your complaints are basically 'well they didn't do it perfectly', as if it should of been overly classified. How about a system where you can regulate your calorie intake and improve your cardio so you can run faster?

 

That isn't the gripe. The gripe was that they did something more effective last year and screwed it up this time.

 

And if those are your complaints, you should hate No Mercy which barely tracks damage beyond arms, legs, head.

 

You forget back/body as well. Considering that no wrestling game has really been any more precise than that, I don't see why I would hate a game based on that.

Edited December 31, 2003 by AndrewTS

[Guest Ghettoman]

ITS A WWE GAME!!!1 They have to support the product they produce, if they didn't they'd simply be making a fool of themselves much more so than you think now.

 

And Yeah, HCTP isn't as precise as that. It just actually displays the damage with an efficient color system with the same exact division between parts.

 

And how was it more efficient last year? SYM had practically no emphasis on body specific damage. It was the same guess work with No Mercy, in HCTP it's right there and works logically. I could work over an arm in SYM for 5 minutes, and it would be easier to win with my finisher then making him tap to an arm submission.

 

Your complaints come because the games not perfect, it's still levels ahead of any WWE game, in story, gameplay, environment and create-a.

[Guest Markingout]

Yep, VPW2 is the best of the series.  Mask editor, shoot fighting, huge roster, awesome list of unlockable legends, the ring announcer TALKS~!, the 1st one w/ running grapples.

 

Just an awesome, awesome game.

Too bad I can't find that game on any roms ANYWHERE. I want to play that game so bad.....

I have the rom. PM me if you want it.

[Zorin Industries 0]

No Mercy, hands down great. My friend and I had a 55 minute ladder match between Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit that we still talk about to this day.

[AndrewTS 0]

ITS A WWE GAME!!!1 They have to support the product they produce, if they didn't they'd simply be making a fool of themselves much more so than you think now.

 

They can do it without botched gameplay balance.

 

Plus, replicating the real life WWE is stupid. A hell of a lot more people probably buy the WWE games than WWE PPVs, and many of the people who buy the games don't follow the product.

 

And Yeah, HCTP isn't as precise as that. It just actually displays the damage with an efficient color system with the same exact division between parts.

 

A good idea, but I'd prefer to turn it off. You wouldn't have that luxury in an AKI wrestling game, so you have to judge how much damage is done the body movements and selling. In HCTP, you have a meter to tell you exactly how much damage is done. Where's the fun in that, at least in 2P?

 

I don't have the game anymore, so if those meters were optional than nevermind.

 

And how was it more efficient last year? SYM had practically no emphasis on body specific damage. It was the same guess work with No Mercy, in HCTP it's right there and works logically. I could work over an arm in SYM for 5 minutes, and it would be easier to win with my finisher then making him tap to an arm submission.

 

I wasn't referring to the submission system, I was referring to the way that a wrestler's style determines how effective his use of different types of moves are.

 

The submission system is actually one of the improvements HCTP has, but I dislike some of the other "improvements."

 

Your complaints come because the games not perfect, it's still levels ahead of any WWE game, in story, gameplay, environment and create-a.

 

Nope, I feel No Mercy is way ahead of it. Better gameplay, its on par storywise, and the Create a Wrestler in No Mercy actually lets you make wrestlers that fit into the game. Any of the in-game wrestlers can be duplicated in CAW mode. You can edit people's looks in No Mercy. Your CAWs can have four different appearances instead of one measly appearance. The only complaint I have about the CAW in No Mercy is that you can't edit movesets. I like that you can do that in the SD games, but you're still stuck with the same appearances.

 

I don't get what you mean by "environment."

[Guest Ghettoman]

That would be where you wrestle.

 

And a better CAW!? STORYWISE!?!

 

Come on, your using the littlest aspects of the game to justify it being better. More moves in Caw, more indepth body design, more attire to work with, masks, you can make taunts for your guy. If your only reasoning is limited to the amount of attires you can have and being able to edit people's attire you have nothing.

 

And how is it botched? Your suggestions were body specific attributes, something that borders on over doing it.

 

I'm sure there are a lot of people who don't follow the product that buy the games, but to suggest there's so many of them that they should cater directly to them is simply retarded.

 

Your gripes with the damage meter comes down to preference and is almost laughable as a point to why it's a better game. Where's the fun in that? Uh, that would be playing the match, being able to see how much you have left in the tank, keeping yourself safe and makes for a much more dramatic build when your playing a friend because when your on the brink of destruction your much more aware. I could go on....

 

Your using personal preference and the smallest of gripes to suggest No Mercy is not only better, but much better than HCTP. I wouldn't be suprised to here the point "cartridges are better than CD's".....

[Zorin Industries 0]

Let me put it this way, of all the wrestling agmes out there, No Mercy is the only one I will still pull out of the cupboard and play regulary. I can give it no higher personal recommendation than that.

[Guest Ghettoman]

Saying you personally like it better is fine, to say it's clearly a better game like it's some obvious fact were dumb for not realizing is just retarded.