Guest Besus Report post Posted December 28, 2003 Def 2 big names- RVD and Shawn Michaels. Def 2 Legends(Shawn/Slaughter) IC Champion World Title Contender(August) Decent Match(HBK)? I believe you Ray. Best match at Armageddon too? Ok. Has got Heat. Common Wrestler Common on the Mic If he goes into Royal Rumble and Eliminate numerous of wrestlers then he will deserve a title shot but not main-eventing WM 20. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted December 28, 2003 I don't have a problem with Orton winning the Rumble at all. But I do have a problem with how you guys bitch and moan about HHH being the champ and when there is a chance for someone new, you guys can't stand it. For the very last time for the extremely dense people. We want somebody new. This much is true. BUT WE DON'T WANT THE NEW PERSON TO SUCK WORSE THAN WHAT WE HAVE BEFORE. ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE ARE BETTER NEW GUYS WAITING TO WRESTLE BUT THEY ARE GETTING PASSED UP IN FAVOR OF A PIECE OF SHIT IN THE RING. NOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND? I could care less about Orton winning the Rumble, he would just be a transitional champion for someone else after Mania. HHH won't give it to anyone else anyway so what is the point of talking about it. The guy who wins the ME of Mania tends to be the guy they pus for the rest of the year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest PowerPB13 Report post Posted December 28, 2003 I'd consider Orton an improvement over Triple H. But that's kind of like saying death by natural causes is an improvement over death by gunshot wound. -Patrick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted December 28, 2003 Has got Heat. -level Heat, sure. There IS reason people are getting better at deciphering his theme: No noise to block it out. Common Wrestler Common on the Mic Well, Bah Gawd, ME of the biggest show ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted December 28, 2003 I don't have a problem with Orton winning the Rumble at all. But I do have a problem with how you guys bitch and moan about HHH being the champ and when there is a chance for someone new, you guys can't stand it. For the very last time for the extremely dense people. We want somebody new. This much is true. BUT WE DON'T WANT THE NEW PERSON TO SUCK WORSE THAN WHAT WE HAVE BEFORE. ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE ARE BETTER NEW GUYS WAITING TO WRESTLE BUT THEY ARE GETTING PASSED UP IN FAVOR OF A PIECE OF SHIT IN THE RING. NOW DO YOU UNDERSTAND? I could care less about Orton winning the Rumble, he would just be a transitional champion for someone else after Mania. HHH won't give it to anyone else anyway so what is the point of talking about it. The guy who wins the ME of Mania tends to be the guy they pus for the rest of the year. Totally untrue........this is a bad example but Hogan and Savage won the ME's of WM 8 and they were definitely not pushed the rest of the year. Same with HHH winning the ME of WM 2000. Or even Hogan winning the ME of WM IX. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChris 0 Report post Posted December 28, 2003 Def 2 Legends(Shawn/Slaughter) He beat Slaughter? Well, I'm convinced. *beats head against wall* IC Champion One big reason he shouldn't. He should be defending that title. World Title Contender(August) You're just grasping at straws now. Decent Match(HBK)? I believe you Ray. Best match at Armageddon too? Ok. He had one decent match? That fills me with confidence in his ability to pull out a good match at Mania with a subpar wrestler. Has got Heat. No, he doesn't. Common Wrestler Common on the Mic Huh??? If he goes into Royal Rumble and Eliminate numerous of wrestlers then he will deserve a title shot but not main-eventing WM 20. You DO know that the Rumble is a work, right? They book the whole thing. No, really. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted December 28, 2003 Brock in 03 HHH in 02 Austin in 01 HHH wasn't pushed for the rest of 00? Austin in 99 Austin in 98 Taker in 97 Shawn in 96 Diesel in 95 Bret in 94 93 and 92 I'll give you. (Yoko can slip by on a technicality) Hogan in 91 Warrior in 90 Hogan in 89 Savage in 88 Hogan in 85-87 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanadianChris 0 Report post Posted December 28, 2003 The guy who wins the ME of Mania tends to be the guy they pus for the rest of the year. Totally untrue........this is a bad example They why are you using it? but Hogan and Savage won the ME's of WM 8 and they were definitely not pushed the rest of the year. Savage was pushed all the way through Summerslam. Hogan, obviously, was making another movie, and his match was thought to be his retirement match. Same with HHH winning the ME of WM 2000. I failed to notice any time during 2000 where he wasn't pushed on or near the top of the card. Also, you noticed he said "tends to," right? Like not all the time, but most of the time? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2GOLD 0 Report post Posted December 28, 2003 You DO know that the Rumble is a work, right? They book the whole thing. No, really. Are you trying to tell me Maven DIDN'T eliminate Undertaker for real? That is was all planned?!?!?! LIES! ALL LIES! MAVEN DID IT ON HIS OWN! HE'S A SUCCESS STORY! *runs away crying like a little girl* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ray Report post Posted December 28, 2003 Consider this, Orton haters: How much heat was Brock Lesnar getting in mid 2002? Not much. How many good matches was he having in mid 2002? None. How many good promos did he do? None. Brock got better AFTER his "god" push, so how do you know Orton won't? Brock turned out pretty fucking well after all... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted December 28, 2003 OK, you're right, but the thing is I wouldn't bet on Orton having the title for too long, and I think that for the first time since 1995, the Rumble winner will not be in the main event of WM if it winds up being Orton. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2GOLD 0 Report post Posted December 28, 2003 Consider this, Orton haters: How much heat was Brock Lesnar getting in mid 2002? Not much. How many good matches was he having in mid 2002? None. How many good promos did he do? None. Brock got better AFTER his "god" push, so how do you know Orton won't? Brock turned out pretty fucking well after all... Brock I saw had talent. Orton looks, talks and wrestles like nothing but the son of Lex Luger with short hair. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted December 29, 2003 Consider this, Orton haters: How much heat was Brock Lesnar getting in mid 2002? Not much. How many good matches was he having in mid 2002? None. How many good promos did he do? None. And I reacted the same way. Brock got better AFTER his "god" push, so how do you know Orton won't? How do we know he will? It's less of a leap to assume that he will say the way he is than to assume he will suddenly drastically get better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes Report post Posted December 29, 2003 Consider this, Orton haters: How much heat was Brock Lesnar getting in mid 2002? Not much. How many good matches was he having in mid 2002? None. How many good promos did he do? None. Brock got better AFTER his "god" push, so how do you know Orton won't? Brock turned out pretty fucking well after all... You neglected to say he didn't get over until HOGAN, ROCK AND UNDERTAKER put him over clean between August and October. But yeah, I'll agree, Brock at first had no heat, had a few good matches, and sucked on the mic. I still don't think Brock disserved such a "God push" but at least it added freshness and he has gotten better in 2003. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisMWaters 0 Report post Posted December 29, 2003 Something else to consider about Lesnar. When he started, he didn't speak at all. He had Heyman do the talking for him, which I wish still was going on...and made him look like a dominating monster with little to say. Orton talks, trips over his words...and seems to be getting worse in the ring as time goes on. I mean...I used to think he had somewhat decent matches when he was on Smackdown against D-Von and Batista...but now...ugh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ray Report post Posted December 29, 2003 Brock I saw had talent. I see talent in Orton...not as much as Lesnar, but still talent. And I reacted the same way. And you ended up being wrong then. Brock is one of the best wrestlers in WWE now. How do we know he will? It's less of a leap to assume that he will say the way he is than to assume he will suddenly drastically get better. Well, it's happened before. Better to wait and see than to go off on "Suckbag" rants any time Orton's name is mentioned. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted December 29, 2003 Consider this, Orton haters: How much heat was Brock Lesnar getting in mid 2002? Not much. How many good matches was he having in mid 2002? None. How many good promos did he do? None. Brock got better AFTER his "god" push, so how do you know Orton won't? Brock turned out pretty fucking well after all... Orton needs to squash Matt Hardy also? Orton needs a manager? Orton looks good as the runt of Evolution? Orton needs to Superplex Mark Henry into the ring and have it collapse also? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted December 29, 2003 Brock I saw had talent. I see talent in Orton...not as much as Lesnar, but still talent. And I reacted the same way. And you ended up being wrong then. Brock is one of the best wrestlers in WWE now. How do we know he will? It's less of a leap to assume that he will say the way he is than to assume he will suddenly drastically get better. Well, it's happened before. . Then, the flip side, I present exhibit Test. I take the "wait until he improves before you push him" route. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ray Report post Posted December 29, 2003 Then, the flip side, I present exhibit Test. I take the "wait until he improves before you push him" route. You picked a bad example there. Test WAS pushed, several times, and failed to improve. Try again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted December 29, 2003 So in other words they should take the route they did with Rocky, because thats what you are saying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted December 29, 2003 You used Brock as an example of a guy who got better with his push, and I used Test as a guy who couldn't. Randy could go either way. He's leaning towards Test. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
razazteca 0 Report post Posted December 29, 2003 Randy Orton is more like Billy Gunn. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted December 29, 2003 So in other words they should take the route they did with Rocky, because thats what you are saying. They tried the Rocky approach, and it didn't work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisMWaters 0 Report post Posted December 29, 2003 You used Brock as an example of a guy who got better with his push, and I used Test as a guy who couldn't. Randy could go either way. He's leaning towards Test. Very true. Like I said, I think Orton has gotten WORSE over the past few months than he was when he was on Smackdown. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted December 29, 2003 So in other words they should take the route they did with Rocky, because thats what you are saying. They tried the Rocky approach, and it didn't work. When he was on SD! right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted December 29, 2003 So in other words they should take the route they did with Rocky, because thats what you are saying. They tried the Rocky approach, and it didn't work. When he was on SD! right? Well, his whole career has been very Rocky based. They started him as a babyface, which didn't really work, so they deliberately went the Rocky route, letting him come back from an injury as a cocky asshole heel stablemate. That's all Rock needed. Orton has yet to get over. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Damaramu 0 Report post Posted December 29, 2003 You forgot to mention that Orton can't even dream of having the talent The Rock has. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Besus Report post Posted December 29, 2003 No, he doesn't. Do you mean he "hasn't"? Because I said he "has". -November(Eric Introduced his 5th member) -RKO(Mavericks Owner,Mae Young,Shawn) -In June(Foley Promo) -In September? (Highlite Reel) -Match(SGT. Slaughter,Shawn(Raw) Their has even been some times he was cheered. -Match(Goldberg,W/ Flair against Cade/Jindrak,) One big reason he shouldn't. He should be defending that title. He shouldn't win the Royal Rumble because he is not defending the IC Title? He just won it. Huh? Average. He isn't bad in the ring and Not bad on the mic either. Nathan Jones(Ring) <-Thats bad. Goldberg (Mic)<-Thats bad. You're just grasping at straws now. He should get another shot just like others have against HHH. He beat Slaughter? Well, I'm convinced. *beats head against wall* But he's a 4 time WHWC He has Main-Evented WM You DO know that the Rumble is a work, right? They book the whole thing. No, really. I know this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted December 29, 2003 -RKO(Mavericks Owner,Mae Young,Shawn) - Mavericks owner is an AWFUL example, becase he showed up in a skit less than two minutes later and got nothing. The action was over, not Randy. Unlike when he RKOed Moolah in SC and just plain old got silence. He isn't bad in the ring and Not bad on the mic either. Nathan Jones(Ring) <-Thats bad. No, that's atrocious. Orton is bad, but not Jones level Goldberg (Mic)<-Thats bad. FGB is coherent. Orton regularly trips over his words. But he's a 4 time WHWC He has Main-Evented WM So has the T Twins. Mr. and L. and WHWC? . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toxxic 0 Report post Posted December 29, 2003 No, he doesn't. Do you mean he "hasn't"? Because I said he "has". Uh, Besus? You might want to work on your own grammar and spelling before correcting someone else's. As for Orton winning the Rumble - no. Here's a few reasons. - Orton is one of the less-talented wrestlers on Raw. He's not the pits due to the presence of people like Heidenreich, but he's nowhere near ready to be main-eventing Mania based on his workrate. He's had a couple of not-bad matches, but by and large he's average to poor, with shocking timing and ring-sense. If he goes to Mania it looks like he'll face Triple H, who won't be able to carry him to a match worthy of the biggest Mania ever. - He's also not ready to be main-eventing Mania based on his heat. People like Hogan can pull off being in big matches simply because the crowd temporarily loses their minds and cheers a 50 year-old shaking and staggering around the ring whilst punches bounce off him. Orton hasn't got much heat - it's not non-existant, but people like the Dudleyz get just as big a reaction. And that's not right for someone who's meant to be in the main event of the biggest Mania ever. Plus if he's facing Trips, there's no guarantee that Trip's face act will go down any better now than it went before, so it's not like he'll be playing off a super-hot babyface. - If Orton does go to Mania, he shouldn't do it by winning the Rumble because there's no need for it. There is however a need for Benoit to win the Rumble, because otherwise he can't get a title shot as long as Heyman remains in charge. In fact, if Trips does turn face then it's likely that Orton will remain "in" with Bischoff and be treated well rather than having to defy the odds to get the shot. I'm not expecting this to get through, but we can but hope. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
