Most overpushed

[Guest Brooding Genius]

Says the Test fan.

 

<deadpan> Oh no.  Not that. </deadpan>

 

And it's not like I'm clamoring for him to be given the WWF Title.  I just don't go and whine on a message board about him being on TV, because I don't think he's as God-awful as everyone else makes him out to be.

 

Hey Genius, when Test has a watchable match, let me know.

 

Says the wannabe puro-snob.  Tell you what: when you can produce 6 hours of wrestling on TV in a week devoted solely to the "greatness" that is Kurt Angle and Chris Benoit, I'll shut up.

 

Until then, get used to the fact that there are other wrestlers on TV that might not have an Olympic pedigree, and there are people who might enjoy them.

 

Including ME.

[Guest x-LJSexay-x]

Wooo, I like you already Genius.

 

Anglesault.....wtf is wrong with you...some days I like you, some days you're a post slut, and ugh.....I don't like you today :-/, and I bet everyone else doesn't either.

 

You know, you'd think someone who likes Angle would have knowledge and understanding, that the sole reason Mr Angle got over so big so huge so FAST, because, ironically, HE WAS OVERPUSHED TO THE MOTHER F*CKING LIMITS AND BEYOND...yeesh. you bitch and complain about how Test gets all this air time and isn't over? How ion fuck can he be over if they give him NO mic time and NO character development. Angle got twice the damn air time, all the mic time he wanted, and THAT'S how he got so big so fast. Sorry if not EVERY damn wrestler has a gold medal....and sorry for trying to push someone when the roster is so big that there is hardly room for interviews for a certain person. If test got what Angle did, he'd be much more over as he is now, and also, and only THEN will he have been over-f*cking-pushed.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Angle was over when he was fighting Shawn Stasiak & Steve Blackman when he first joined the WWF.  He didn't start getting pushed until No Way Out.

 

Test, like Billy Gunn, is always getting pushed despite zero heat & zero ability.

[Guest x-LJSexay-x]

Angle had over a years worth of dsark matches, in which to learn his skills in carrying matches and in mic skills, while Test was rushed into things after learning so much a the Funkin' Dojo....so yea . Shows how Angle has been given everything so quickly eh? Regardless of how good he actually is.

 

Heh, I wouldn't take ability away from Test, thats just being downright extreme.

[Guest Anglesault]

If someone doesn't have mic skills, they won't have mic time. If someone has no charisma, they won't have character development. If someone brutally sucks in the ring, they will get shit on.

[Guest]

Actually, Mr. Ramsus, you are wrong. You're letting your petty bias cloud your perception of facts.

 

I've stated this before and I'll state it again, Test has only had TWO pushes. TWO. His face push from mid-to-late 1999 and his three month heel push in 2001. Two, that's it. I'd really like to know where you're getting this always stuff from.

 

Billy Gunn has had heat ever since he was in the NAO tag team. Please, don't let your bias cloud your perception of the facts. I don't care for Benoit, but I won't deny that he can wrestle a good match.

 

As for Angle being over....Angle was pushed the moment he was first put in front of the camera and it has yet to stop. He was immediately given mic time, a gimmick, and a storyline whcih was his "winning streak." All this in his first month being on WWF TV.

 

The thing about Angle's push is that it has never stopped. He's never been at a point where he can comfortably rest in the main-event like Austin/Rock/HHH. It's day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year of a never ending super-push.

 

In a sense, Kurt Angle's push has failed. To be pushed so hard, so fast and still be perceived as a mid-carder is a failure in my mind. Test is not someone who's ALWAYS pushed. Kurt Angle is. So in the end, Kurt Angle is the most overpushed and it has yet to reap any benfits what-so-ever.

[Guest KoR Fungus]

But Kurt Angle *deserves* a bigger push than Test because he has more ability than Test.  I'm a mild Test mark and have never really minded the guy in the ring, but he sucks on the mic, and he's no Flair in the ring either.  Angle, otoh, can cut an excellent heel promo and is one of the top five workers in the WWF (and that's being conservative).  The better worker gets the bigger push, as it should be.

 

I don't see how Angle's push can be looked at as a failure either.  He's at worst the second most over heel in the company.  I'm not sure exactly who it is that perceives him as a midcarder.  I certainly don't think most marks do, or he wouldn't get such good heat in main event feuds.

[Guest Anglesault]

Test has not ALWAYS been pushed because it always failed. And it's been more than two pushes. Just two unwarrented Main event pushes. He has failed in the Hardcore and Euro divisions, and as Shane's lackey several times.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

What about when T&A was put over the super-over Dudley Boyz in early 2000?  How about when Test had HHH arrested?  What about when Test got put over Regal for the Euro-title when Regal was in a main event feud with Austin?  I must be making that up.

 

Gunn was not over in the New Age Outlaws.  Road Dogg was, and his heat disappered with the New DX.  By the time he was teaming with K-Kwik he was coming out to silence, and he was still more over than Gunn.  

 

Are you going to say that X-Pac is over too?

[Guest]

>>>But Kurt Angle *deserves* a bigger push than Test because he has more ability than Test.<<<

 

Kurt Angle doesn't have the ability to play a face well. Test proved he could in 1999. Test's reactions were consistent. Angle's heat reached a peak during that horrible "Milk-a-mania" segment and it dropped considersbly after that. Test's heat dropped when he was demoted to lugging Albert around in the tag team division.

 

>>>The better worker gets the bigger push, as it should be.<<<

 

Not really. Because 70% of the time, the best worker draws the least money. That's why the Rock is at the top and not say, Lance Storm, as it should be.

 

>>>He's at worst the second most over heel in the company.<<<

 

No heels are really over in the company besides Booker T. (sometimes) and the gay duo. Jericho's heat is very poor to be the Undisputed Champion and Angle is drawing nowhere near the heat he did say a year ago.

 

>>>I'm not sure exactly who it is that perceives him as a midcarder.<<<

 

The fans. He's not perceived as a nobody, but as a guy who has "no chance of winning." Whether you're a heel or face, that's NOT a good thing.

 

>>>I certainly don't think most marks do, or he wouldn't get such good heat in main event feuds.<<<

 

Billy Gunn and Chuck Palumbo get almost as much heat as Angle and nobody would dare say they're anything but a mid-card tag team.

 

As for your comments Anglesault.....

 

>>>Test has not ALWAYS been pushed because it always failed.<<<

 

His first push didn't fail. It was abruptly stopped despite being supported by crowd reaction. For another example of this, see Van Dam, Rob.  His second push was a failure because the WWF couldn't decide what to do with him. If you remember, the time period between the Alliance dissolving and HHH returning was riddled with sketchy at best storylines. Test was just another victim.

 

>>>He has failed in the Hardcore and Euro divisions,<<<

 

That was a de-push from when he was feuding with HHH/Heel DX Ver. 2. Test was already on his way down by then so that wasn't a push. And by your logic, Chrisitan is failing right now as well as Euro champ.

 

>>>and as Shane's lackey several times.<<<

 

SEVERAL times. Test was in the Corporation no doubt, but basically he was little more than Bossman's lackey which wasn't a push at all. He was pretty much just another Corporation member not named the Rock.  The second time he was Shane's "lackey" was in that brief period WCW was supposed to be a face stable. He was on TV for about two weeks as a face and then beaten up by the WWF B-Team. Some push. Get your facts straight fanboy and some mathematical comprehension skills wouldn't hurt either.

[Guest Anglesault]

Test was a Shane Lackey after they made up in 1999. Test was a Shane Lackey in T and A. Test was a Shane Lackey in both Heel and face WCW.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

If you think that Booker T is more over than Kurt (You suck, what?) Angle you need to watch some more wrestling.

 

Since you think that Christian is European Champion, I have the feeling you haven't watched the WWF in awhile.

 

PS:  Test sucked in 1999 too.  He was over because he was engaged to Stephanie.  He was nothing prior to that, and he was nothing afterwards.  Could it be that it was Steph that was getting the heat and not Test?  No, couldn't be using your logic.

[Guest]

>>>What about when T&A was put over the super-over Dudley Boyz in early 2000?<<<

 

What about when the Brooklyn Brawler was put over mega heel HHH? Was he getting a push too?

 

>>>How about when Test had HHH arrested?<<<

 

And how about that four month program HHH worked with Test after that? Oh wait, my mistake, the blowoff was a squash match on a Smackdown or something.

 

>>>What about when Test got put over Regal for the Euro-title when Regal was in a main event feud with Austin?<<<

 

Yeah. To get the title off of Regal so he could move further up the card. As for Test, he was main eventing after winning that oh so prestigious Euro-belt. He was main-eventing HEAT baby!  

 

>>>Gunn was not over in the New Age Outlaws.  Road Dogg was,<<<

 

Then explain why was Gunn still getting face heat after he turned heel on DX in mid 1999? Or do you not remember that? And why did Gunn get that huge face pop when he came out during the "Who Ran Over Austin" segment? And why did he sustain pops of that size for over six months despite being oushed from IC level to curtain jerking Jakked. And why did he maintain some of the largest crowd reactions until he recently turned heel and formed the team with Palumbo?

 

What next, you'll be telling me that RVD isn't over?

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

No RVD is over.  See I can listen, unlike you who says Angle is not over.

 

Watch KOTR 1999, and Mabel-like heat that Billy got after winning it.  As in "Why the hell did they let this guy win?" heat.  Gunn had a big pop when he got back, but it was gone even by No Mercy 2000.  The Mega-heel Benoit got a face pop for humiliating him at Armaggeddon.  Explain that.

[Guest]

>>>Test was a Shane Lackey after they made up in 1999.<<<

 

If anything Shane was Test's lackey after they made up. Shane basically got jumped by the Mean Street Posse because he was keeping them off Test's back.

 

>>>Test was a Shane Lackey in T and A.<<<

 

Test was basically working for Steph when he was in T & A. That lasted a couple of weeks before he was booted out of the group and Albert began his failed push.

 

>>>Test was a Shane Lackey in both Heel and face WCW.<<<

 

I'll give you face WCW, but heel WCW he was basically Austin's lackey (as was everyone else in the Alliance). He teamed up with Booker (who WAS Shane's lackey) but that's about it.

 

You're 25% Anglesault. You're pretty bad. You get an F. Go sit in the corner.

 

As for you Karen.....

 

>>>If you think that Booker T is more over than Kurt (You suck, what?) Angle you need to watch some more wrestling.<<<

 

An argument can be made that it's actually Angle's music that's over and not him, which is pretty sad. BTW. X-Pac gets "you suck" chants. But I forgot, he's not over.  And everybody gets the "what" chant. Even HHH got it and he was a FACE.

 

>>>Since you think that Christian is European Champion, I have the feeling you haven't watched the WWF in awhile.<<<

 

So what, he lost the strap last week to DDP? That shows how much he did for the belt and the belt did for him. It pretty much proves my point.

 

>>>Could it be that it was Steph that was getting the heat and not Test?  No, couldn't be using your logic.<<<

 

Yeah, it was Steph coming out to all of those cheers and wrestling those matches. And I guess it WAS the crowd cheering for Steph when the music heat. I guess it was going "Steph Steph Steph" instead of "Test Test Test." Well, in your fantasy world anyway.

 

You're pretty bad too Karen. Go sit in the corner with Anglesault. Keep your hands to yourself please.

[Guest]

>>>No RVD is over.  See I can listen, unlike you who says Angle is not over.<<<

 

Please post a quote where I explicitely said, "Kurt Angle is not over." Emphasis on IS.

 

>>>Watch KOTR 1999, and Mabel-like heat that Billy got after winning it.<<<

 

Um, maybe it's because he was FINALLY getting some heel heat. You know he WAS a heel and all.

 

>>>As in "Why the hell did they let this guy win?" heat.<<<

 

I like how you guys try and get all technical by describing what type of heat people get. It makes you all look like geeks and it waters down your argument as well.

 

>>>Gunn had a big pop when he got back, but it was gone even by No Mercy 2000.<<<

 

Sure, if you had your volume down.

 

>>>The Mega-heel Benoit got a face pop for humiliating him at Armaggeddon.  Explain that.<<<

 

First, mega-heel and Chris Benoit don't belong in the same sentence. He was comfortably over, but not to HHH levels. And seeing how you like to exaggerate situations as they pertain to your biases, who am I to believe from you that they popped for Benoit when he beat Billy Gunn? But maybe they did. People popped when HHH beat the Rock on numerous occasions. Was the Rock not over as a face? They popped for Austin/HHH when they went against the Canadian Connection, do I dare infer that they weren't over either?

 

Go back to the corner and try harder next time Karen.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

I think you need to turn the volume up on your TV, or go back and watch some of these shows.  Of course, seeing how you think X-Pac was over you are probably too dumb enough to figure out how to work your VCR.

 

X-Pac gets bad heat.  That means people turn the channel when he comes on.  You can see the exact same thing with Big Bossman.  

 

Um, maybe it's because he was FINALLY getting some heel heat. You know he WAS a heel and all.

 

Uhh, he just turned heel, and according to you he was getting face heat.

 

People popped when HHH beat the Rock on numerous occasions.

 

Seems to me they were throwing garbage into the ring when he beat him at Wrestlemania & Judgement Day.

 

I like how you guys try and get all technical by describing what type of heat people get. It makes you all look like geeks and it waters down your argument as well.

 

Why?  Because we can explain it and you can't?  And how does being able to explain something water down an argument?  

 

Sure, if you had your volume down.

 

Did you even watch No Mercy 2000?  Oh wait.  I know.  The WWF edited out the pop on a live PPV, right?

 

Yeah, it was Steph coming out to all of those cheers and wrestling those matches. And I guess it WAS the crowd cheering for Steph when the music heat. I guess it was going "Steph Steph Steph" instead of "Test Test Test." Well, in your fantasy world anyway.

 

Then why did Test's heat disappear after Steph dumped him, while the previously heatless HHH became the most over heel in the company?  Where was Test's heat when he was in the Union?  He didn't have any until the date.

 

I suppose you are one of those Russo marks that think 1999 was the greatest year in the history of professional wrestling.  I'm surprised you can even remember back that far, since you obviously can't remember stuff that happened in 2000.

[Guest]

You say you like Test and than go on to complain about someone having a non-interesting match? Give me a fucking break.

It's his opinion you asshole. I also like Test.....he was cool when I met him to.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Please post a quote where I explicitely said, "Kurt Angle is not over." Emphasis on IS.

 

"An argument can be made that it's actually Angle's music that's over and not him, which is pretty sad."

 

There you go.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I'd just like to say that with the 7 second delay and a control board that has the capability of playing up or drowning out sounds...they are more than capable of editing out heat and pops on live TV.

[Guest]

>>>Of course, seeing how you think X-Pac was over you are probably too dumb enough to figure out how to work your VCR.<<<

 

I'm dumb for having my own opinion now? God forbid I think differently than any of you Benoit loving geeks! And please explain what turning up the volume on your TV has to do with working a VCR.

 

>>>X-Pac gets bad heat.  That means people turn the channel when he comes on.<<<

 

Can you get a ratings report to prove this? If not it's just another one of your dumb arguments that holds no water. And how can people at home give him heat by changing the channel?  Are you on crack because that makes absolutely no sense?

 

>>>Uhh, he just turned heel, and according to you he was getting face heat.<<<

 

Gunn didn't turn at KOTR ring you moron. He had already been a hel. Get your facts straight.

 

>>>Seems to me they were throwing garbage into the ring when he beat him at Wrestlemania & Judgement Day.<<<

 

And these were the only times they went at it? Very well. I guess the sky is green in your world as well.

 

>>>Why?  Because we can explain it and you can't?  And how does being able to explain something water down an argument?<<<

 

You can't explain heat you moron. To do that, you'd have to know what every single fan in the arena is thinking. You don't have that power Karen Ramsey. Analyzing heat makes you look stupid because it's obviously swayed towards your personal OPINION instead of being based on facts.

 

>>>  Did you even watch No Mercy 2000?  Oh wait.  I know.  The WWF edited out the pop on a live PPV, right?<<<

 

Yeah, just like they added in all of those either pops Gunn got right despite him wrestling on Jakked and getting no push waht-so-ever.

 

>>>Then why did Test's heat disappear after Steph dumped him,<<<

 

Um, maybe because Test was depushed from being a semi-main eventer to barely on TV at all to tagging with Albert of all people.

 

>>>Where was Test's heat when he was in the Union?  He didn't have any until the date.<<<

 

What? Are you kidding me. Despite that stable being ridiculous the people in it were comfortably over.

 

>>> suppose you are one of those Russo marks that think 1999 was the greatest year in the history of professional wrestling.<<<

 

No, it's just the best year I ever saw.  But unlike you I don't try to pass of my opinions as fact and I can accept other people's opinions without resorting to name calling.

 

>>>I'm surprised you can even remember back that far, since you obviously can't remember stuff that happened in 2000.<<<

 

You only remember what you want to Karen. And you failed yet again so go back into the corner until you do better. Toodles.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

Ok.  I didn't know that.  But do you agree with me that Test has no heat bps?

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Yes.  Test is a vacuum.

[Guest Kahran Ramsus]

And these were the only times they went at it? Very well. I guess the sky is green in your world as well.

 

Oh, you must mean SummerSlam 1998, when HHH was the big face, since that was the only other major match in which HHH won.

 

 

And please explain what turning up the volume on your TV has to do with working a VCR.

 

Good luck seeing X-Pac around without watching it on tape.

 

Gunn didn't turn at KOTR ring you moron. He had already been a hel. Get your facts straight

 

When did I say that he turned AT KOTR?  Are you blind too?

 

You can't explain heat you moron.

Of course you can.  I suppose you think Rock was a great heel in early 1997 then, since he was being booed.  X-Pac was a face in the early stages of the Invasion angle, but was still being booed.  That should tell you something.

 

Um, maybe because Test was depushed from being a semi-main eventer to barely on TV at all to tagging with Albert of all people.

 

Albert is MUCH better than Test.

 

 

What? Are you kidding me. Despite that stable being ridiculous the people in it were comfortably over.

 

Mick was over.  Shamrock was over.  Big Show was over.  Test was not.

 

No, it's just the best year I ever saw.  

 

That much is obvious since you haven't watched anything else.

 

Anyone else want to comment on 1999 being the best year that they have seen?

 

You only remember what you want to Karen. And you failed yet again so go back into the corner until you do better. Toodles.

 

No, you fail.  I have tossed away your points, and all you can do is say that I'm wrong without offering any proof.  I have given examples.  Where are yours?

 

Karen Ramsey

 

You can't even spell.  Why should we listen to your opinion?

[Guest x-LJSexay-x]

You both have good points, but wtf.....come on, snap out of it.......does everyone have to be so fucking dicotomus on this issue of Test? I mean fuck, you're telling me if Test isn't over he isnt talented at all? That if he doesnt get the 'right' kind of heat then he should be removed from the ring? PLEASE....there are many levels to everything, but heat.....you can make up types of heat.....but heat is heat, if you get heel heat, it makes the face look better, "Hey I hope he kicks *heel*'s ass"....come on now.

 

Test is talented alright? He WAS over back then in 1999, and it was because the crowd was given a reason to like him.....he lost his heat afterwards because HE WAS DEPUSHED INTO THE DEPTH S OF HARDCORE DIVISION HELL....and now, he has little heat because THEY DON'T FUCKING DEVELOP HIS CHARACTER!!!!!! JESUS!

 

Just stop.....

[Guest nwawildsidemark]

I think Test deserves a push.  Rikishi is the most overpushed in my opinion