A question for you all

[Guest Dave O'Neill, Journalist]

First up, I'm curious as to why All Japan gets such a bad rep these days, and if someone wants to give me both a long and a short answer, it'd be appreciated. In fact, I'd be inclined to seek out a lot more AJ than NJ, because every second match doesn't appear to be in some way shoot-influenced.

 

But anyway, in the pile of 2003 Puro That Interests me, there's this

 

All Japan runs it's annual Fan Appreciation Day from Korakuen Hall with fan actions and out of the ordinary matchups, such as Kojima working heel against Kaz Hayashi while Hirai and Okumra square off in a Coca Cola drinking contest before their matchup.

 

Now while that alone would be enough to sell me on the show, can someone explain what happened here

 

Nobukazu Hirai vs. Shigeo Okumura (0:14)

 

14 seconds?????????????????

[Guest Just Too Uber]

Because some people *DON'T* want to see sub-par sports entertainment, especially in All Japan, maybe?

 

Again, just an idea.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

First up, I'm curious as to why All Japan gets such a bad rep these days, and if someone wants to give me both a long and a short answer, it'd be appreciated.

Didn't I already talk to you about this?

[Guest Black Tiger]

Heres the basics, if someone else wants to go into full detail be my guest.

 

During the early-mid 1990's AJPW was putting on the best matches in the world, but by the late 1990's due to a severe lack of pushing new stars and the matches getting somewhat stale, the AJPW in ring style took a drastic tumble downward, what were once great matches weaving together years worth of psychology and story telling were now head drop marathons with horrible selling.

 

So in June of 2000 Misawa leaves AJPW and they basically have to start from scratch with only their gaijin, some indy names, as well as the only two loyal natives Kawada and Fuchi. The AJPW vs NJPW feud put on some great matches, but after Keiji Mutoh jumped to AJPW along with Satoshi Kojima and Kendo Ka Shin the working relationship was finished. Mutoh began booking the company pretty much into the ground, to the point where Giant Baba's wife sold Mutoh the actual company. (Giant Baba started AJPW in 1972 and ran it until his death in 1999)

 

The only (and I do mean only) positive thing that Mutoh has done is give Kawada a run as the top dog (which Baba never had the faith in him for). It's too late for Kawada though, at one point he was the best worker in the world but at this point, he's probably lost all motivation as what should have been easy MOTYC matches are drastically disappointing. Most of AJPW's gaijin left and Mutoh's attempt to replace them has been really bad, he's brought in such great wrestelrs as D'Lo Brown, Bull Buchanan, Justin Credible, and Jamal (of Three Minute Warning Fame)

[Guest Dave O'Neill, Journalist]

Because some people *DON'T* want to see sub-par sports entertainment

 

I do, or at the very least be entertained

 

Didn't I already talk to you about this?

 

Yeah, you did, but it was PM, and I figured that since I was asking about the Fan Appreciation Day, I might as well stick it in so we all learn somefink

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

Basically what Black Tiger said. Also it looks a lot like WCW in that they have to sign stars that New Japan has no use for anymore. Before Hashimoto left their main event consisted of 2/3 of New Japan's main eventers in the mid 90s. They also bring over terrible foreign stars. Buncannon, Malice, Ekmo and Justin Credible are all regulars on All Japan shows now and they downright suck. I mean Credible and Ekmo were in the finals of the Real World Tag League just to show you how horrible AJPW has got.

[Guest Just Too Uber]

Because some people *DON'T* want to see sub-par sports entertainment

 

I do, or at the very least be entertained

Yes, because if anything makes me think of "entertainment" it's coke drinking contests preceeding 14 second matches. Real peak-nWo quality sports entertainment right there.

[Guest Dave O'Neill, Journalist]

Yes, because if anything makes me think of "entertainment" it's coke drinking contests preceeding 14 second matches. Real peak-nWo quality sports entertainment right there.

I loved the nWo Era.

 

Saying that though, if people can watch Necro Butcher and Cpl Kirschner drink Tequila shots between rounds in IWA - MS, and everybody loves IWA - MS, I can't understand the problem with two guys doing this.

 

I'm buying the tape, btw.

 

Furthermore, reading the results of the past while, it honest to God looks Muto is going somewhere. Taiyo Kea (who Muto loves) has recently turned heel and joined the RO&D group. Since its obvious that Kawda will drop the TC to Kojima, the monster babyface, its logical to assume that Kojima - Kea, which won't be a bad match, is being built up to.

 

Or something

[Sandman9000 0]

1: It's Corporal Robinson, not whatever the hell you just said.

 

2: The show in which the Drunken Deathmatch occured was the first night of the TPI, and was generally a counterbalance to the excellent technical wrestling which had just occured. When people think back fondly on the 2002 TPI, the drunken deathmatch is not one of the highlights. It was entertaining in a trainwreck, so-bad-it's-good kind of way. Thankfully, IWA and no one else does DDM's on a regular basis.

 

3: You're an idiot.

[Guest Dave O'Neill, Journalist]

1. Sorry

 

2. Yeah, whatever. It was just something I pointed out. I'm not bashing IWA - MS in any way

 

3. I get that a lot. Sticks and Stones, etc.

[Ace309 0]

2. Yeah, whatever. It was just something I pointed out. I'm not bashing IWA - MS in any way

No, but you're implying that the Drunken Deathmatch incident puts them on par with recent AJPW by drawing an analogy to the coke-drinking contest. The problem is that "peak-nWo quality sports entertainment" (as Just Too Uber calls it) is becoming the norm in AJPW, whereas it was an unusual event in IWA-MS. There's no inconsistency here, no matter how much you want there to be one.

[Guest Just Too Uber]

Yes, because if anything makes me think of "entertainment" it's coke drinking contests preceeding 14 second matches. Real peak-nWo quality sports entertainment right there.

I loved the nWo Era.

 

Saying that though, if people can watch Necro Butcher and Cpl Kirschner drink Tequila shots between rounds in IWA - MS, and everybody loves IWA - MS, I can't understand the problem with two guys doing this.

 

I'm buying the tape, btw.

 

Furthermore, reading the results of the past while, it honest to God looks Muto is going somewhere. Taiyo Kea (who Muto loves) has recently turned heel and joined the RO&D group. Since its obvious that Kawda will drop the TC to Kojima, the monster babyface, its logical to assume that Kojima - Kea, which won't be a bad match, is being built up to.

 

Or something

What are you babbling about?

 

Dave O'Neill, Journalist and Rambling Idiot.

[Guest Just Too Uber]

2. Yeah, whatever. It was just something I pointed out. I'm not bashing IWA - MS in any way

No, but you're implying that the Drunken Deathmatch incident puts them on par with recent AJPW by drawing an analogy to the coke-drinking contest. The problem is that "peak-nWo quality sports entertainment" (as Just Too Uber calls it) is becoming the norm in AJPW, whereas it was an unusual event in IWA-MS. There's no inconsistency here, no matter how much you want there to be one.

Ummm, no, I was saying in comparison to the peak of the nWo angle (possibly the greatest sports entertainment angle of all time) Mutoh's version of "sport entertainment" sucks a big fucking dick.

[Ace309 0]

Ummm, no, I was saying in comparison to the peak of the nWo angle (possibly the greatest sports entertainment angle of all time) Mutoh's version of "sport entertainment" sucks a big fucking dick.

Cheerfully withdrawn.

 

I assumed you were being facetious and referring to the third, fourth, etc incarnations of the nWo.