The retired number 42

[The Czech Republic 0]

Looks stupid, sounds stupid, is stupid.

 

The Yankees retiring Brooklyn Dodger Jackie Robinson's #42 would be like them retiring #1 "for the fans, because our fans are #1! YAY GO FANS!!!!!1" It doesn't just fit in with the club. I don't neccessarily love the Yankees. But I don't want the 26-time World Series champions to act lame.

 

However, I endorse a leaguewide retirement of #99 in the NHL because Wayne Gretzky dominated hockey like no athlete will dominate their sport.

 

Also: Jordan's #23 is retired in Miami. The hell?

[Guest Anglesault]

would be like them retiring #1 "for the fans, because our fans are #1! YAY GO FANS!!!!!1" It doesn't just fit in with the club.

That, and Billy Martin's Drunken Ghost would come back and haunt us all.

[nl5xsk1 0]

Hell, the Giants have a bigger rivalry with the Dodgers than the Yankees do (or did)

 

New York Yankees/Brooklyn Dodgers World Series.

 

1941

1947

1948

1952

1953

1955

1956.

 

(Yankee/LA Dodgers World Series: 1963, 1977, 1978, 1981. But that's not the point I'm trying to make.)

I'll agree that the Yankees and Dodgers had a rivalry - to deny that would be wrong. But, the Giants-Dodgers rivalry was placed as one of the 10 biggest rivalries in sports by ESPN (http://espn.go.com/endofcentury/s/other/bestrivalries.html) and have had such historic incidents as The Shot Heard Round the World, Marichal creaming the guy with the baseball bat, and that murder in LA last year (maybe 2 years ago now). The Yankees/Dodgers rivalry really doesn't match up with that.

 

And I disagree with using World Series matchups as "proof" of an oldtime rivalry. The Dodgers and Giants have virtually always been in the same league, thus making it difficult to play in the World Series. And if you want to use history as proof, I remember reading some article about how the Giants and Dodgers have been rivals since the 1880's. If I wasn't so lazy, I'd google it up and paste the link.

 

Lastly, to bring the thread back to the Jackie Robinson debate, nothing is more ironic than people suggesting (or, as in the case in Fenway, actually using) different colors or different locations for Robinson's 42. Something about "separate but equal" and segregation comes to mind.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I disagree with the Yankees/Dodgers assessment. 1952 and 53 are among the most overlooked series of all time. 1955 was a classic, and 1956 had Don Larsen. Than there's 1947 with Bill Bevin's no hitter turned loss. 1941, Mickey Owens passed ball costs the Dodgers game 4. Sandy Koufax decimates the Yankees in 1963. And of course, Reggie hits three off the Dodgers in a game in 1978.

[Guest Anglesault]

I disagree with the Yankees/Dodgers assessment. 1952 and 53 are among the most overlooked series of all time. 1955 was a classic, and 1956 had Don Larsen. Than there's 1947 with Bill Bevin's no hitter turned loss. 1941, Mickey Owens passed ball costs the Dodgers game 4. Sandy Koufax decimates the Yankees in 1963. And of course, Reggie hits three off the Dodgers in a game in 1978.

I assume you agree wth me on the rivalry, al. Either that or I'm a moron and can' read.

 

Anyway, 63 and 77 fit with the over all Yankee-Dodger rivalry, but not really with the Jackie argument.

 

One other thing. I assume Yankees/Dodgers (LA or Brooklyn) is the most frequent WS pairing, but I've been wrong before.

 

Are they, and if not, who is number one?

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Yes, the Yankees have faced the Dodgers on 11 occasions, the last in 1981. They won 8 while the Dodgers won 3.

[Guest Anglesault]

And how many did Jackie Robinson play in?

[HarleyQuinn 0]

2nd closest by my count was the New York Yankees vs New York Giants/San Francisco Giants at 7 series matchups ironically enough(Since the Dodgers hate the Giants and vice versa).

 

Series: 1921, 1922, 1923, 1936, 1937, 1951 and 1962 with the Yankees winning 5 and the Giants winning 2.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Six. 1947, 49, 52, 53, 55 and 56.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Edited: Al beat me

[Guest FrigidSoul]

You know if they're going to retire the number of Jackie Robinson around the league because he was the first black major leaguer than they had better have plans on retiring the numbers of the first Native American, Spanish, and Asian decent ball players too.

[Guest Anglesault]

Six. 1947, 49, 52, 53, 55 and 56.

Good.

 

He has no business having his number retired in Yankee Stadium.

 

You don't retire the number of a man who fought your team tooth and nail in the world series SIX times (without ever playing for your team). It's just not right.

[Guest Anglesault]

n/m

Edited February 19, 2004 by Anglesault

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

You know if they're going to retire the number of Jackie Robinson around the league because he was the first black major leaguer than they had better have plans on retiring the numbers of the first Native American, Spanish, and Asian decent ball players too.

 

The difference is those players weren't excluded for fifty plus years. That example really doesn't apply.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

I think it'd be better if the teams retired the uniform # of the first black they hired to play for THEIR team. I find it kind of disconcerting that just because Jackie did it first, he essentially gets the credit despite only playing for 1 team.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Some interesting WS Facts: Yankees won 5 straight from 1949-1953. The only 3-peat World Series champs are the Yankees(1936-1939 they won 4 straight), Yankees(1949-1953 winning 5 straight), Oakland Athletics(1972-1974), Yankees(1998-2000). Interesting that 12 WS rings for the Yankees all came in clusters since I never realized they won 4 or 5 straight. Last WS involving a tie was 1922, New York Giants beating the Yankees 4-0-1. Most games with a tie was 8, 1912 with the Red Sox beating the New York Giants 4-3-1.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

The 1936-39 Yankees are often overlooked, but they might be the best team in history. Not only did they win 4 straight titles, but they led the lead in runs scored AND least runs allowed four years in a row. No team has come close to matching that. They won 106 games in 1939 with Babe Dahlgren at first. Had Gehrig stayed healthy, they would've won 113 games.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

You know if they're going to retire the number of Jackie Robinson around the league because he was the first black major leaguer than they had better have plans on retiring the numbers of the first Native American, Spanish, and Asian decent ball players too.

 

The difference is those players weren't excluded for fifty plus years. That example really doesn't apply.

Sure they were, I believe the first spanish player didn't come in until the late 50s/early 60s.

[Guest Anglesault]

I think it'd be better if the teams retired the uniform # of the first black they hired to play for THEIR team. I find it kind of disconcerting that just because Jackie did it first, he essentially gets the credit despite only playing for 1 team.

Is that Elston for us?

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Sure they were, I believe the first spanish player didn't come in until the late 50s/early 60s.

 

Plenty of latin players played in the majors. Notably Dolf Luque, who won 194 names.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Is that Elston for us?

 

I'm almost certain it is.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

I believe it is as well, Howard Elston right?

[Guest Anglesault]

I believe it is as well, Howard Elston right?

Uhm...Elston Howard.

 

Anyway, we have him retired. Number 32.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

As for the number idea... here's what we get

 

Baltimore- #7 (Hank Thompson)

Boston- #12 (Pumpsie Green)

Chicago White Sox- #9 (Minnie Minoso)

Cleveland - #14 (Larry Doby)

Detroit - #22 (Ozzie Virgil)

Minnesota - #23 (Carlos Paula)

New York Yankees - #32 (Elston Howard)

Oakland - #23 (Bob Trice)

 

Atlanta - #5 (Sam Jethroe)

Chicago Cubs - #14 (Ernie Banks)

Cincinnati - #10 (Chuck Harmon), #21 (Nino Escalera)

Los Angeles - #42 (Jackie Robinson)

Philadelphia - #8 (John Kennedy)

Pittsburgh - #7 (Curt Roberts)

St. Louis - #10 (Tom Alston)

San Francisco - #16 (Hank Thompson), #7 or #20 (Monte Irvin)

[Guest Anglesault]

How many of those are retired?

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Doby, Minoso and Banks had their numbers retired

[Guest Anglesault]

Doby, Minoso and Banks had their numbers retired

And Howard

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Wow, the top 3 teams that have won the most WS' are the New York Yankees(26-13), Philadelphia/Oakland Athletics(9-5) and the St. Louis Cardinals(8-6)

 

To compare the "cursed" teams of the White Sox, Cubs and Red Sox...

Red Sox: Last was 1918, 5-3

White Sox: Last was 1917, 1-2

Cubs: Last was 1908, 2-9

 

So it looks like the most cursed team is the Cubbies, winning only 2 WS championships in 11 appearances(Tying the Sox and White Sox' appearances combined)

[Guest Anglesault]

New York Yankees(26-13), Philadelphia/Oakland Athletics(9-5)

 

That's just insane. The drop off is 26-9. I could hug men like Yogi Berra and his ten rings

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Here's how the Yankees did in Runs Scored vs Runs Allowed in each of their WS winning seasons and rank amongst AL teams

 

1923: 823(#3) vs 622(#1)

1927: 975(#1) vs 599(#1)

1928: 894(#1) vs 685(#2)

1932: 1002(#1) vs 724(#2)

1936: 1065(#1) vs 731(#1)

1937: 979(#1) vs 671(#1)

1938: 966(#1) vs 710(#1)

1939: 967(#1) vs 556(#1)

1941: 830(#2) vs 631(#1)

1943: 669(#1) vs 542(#1)

1947: 794(#1) vs 568(#1)

1949: 829(#2) vs 637(#2)

1950: 914(#2) vs 691(#2)

1951: 798(#2) vs 621(#2)

1952: 727(#2) vs 557(#1)

1953: 801(#1) vs 547(#1)

1956: 857(#1) vs 631(#2)

1958: 759(#1) vs 577(#2)

1961: 827(#2) vs 612(#2)

1962: 817(#1) vs 680(#2)

1977: 831(#4) vs 651(#1)

1978: 735(#4) vs 582(#1)

1996: 871(#9) vs 787(#3)

1998: 965(#1) vs 656(#1)

1999: 900(#3) vs 731(#2)

2000: 871(#6) vs 814(#4)

 

Just for comparison

2001: 804(#5) vs 713(#3)

2003: 877(#3) vs 716(#4)

 

Man, the Yankees have just been so dominant pitching wise never doing worse then #4 in terms of runs allowed. Still, you can easily see that the 1932 & 1936-1939 teams could be argued as the best Yankee teams ever at least offensively.