Guest Dynamite Kido Posted February 25, 2004 Report Posted February 25, 2004 I didn't say that the matches were good. Hogan's matches sucked in the 80's for the most part, but he still is one of the biggest wrestlers of all time. Keep in mind what point I am making here........ What is the point you're making? If this is based on work, no way Hogan belongs. If this is based on drawing power, no way Benoit belongs. Either way, Terry Gordy belongs. Either way, Foley doesn't. What *is* the point? My *point* is that Mick Foley is/was the first King of the Deathmatch winner, and that counts for something to some people. By the way, I think Terry Gordy can be awful at times IMO, so that is why he was left off of my list. If you want him on a list, post yours then.........
Guest Black Tiger Posted February 25, 2004 Report Posted February 25, 2004 You're still contradicting yourself. You say Hogan, Norton, and Foley should be listed because of their accomplishements, even though none of the three of them had matches in Japan that set the world on fire. Yet Terry Gordy isn't on your list because he was "awful at times". The first ever American to hold the Triple Crown, co-winner of the 1988, 1990, and 1991 Real World Tag League, multiple time holder of the AJPW World Tag Team Titles, and part of countless ****+ matches while in AJPW. But he digressed after his OD so he isn't worthy of being mentioned?
Guest Dynamite Kido Posted February 25, 2004 Report Posted February 25, 2004 You're still contradicting yourself. You say Hogan, Norton, and Foley should be listed because of their accomplishements, even though none of the three of them had matches in Japan that set the world on fire. Yet Terry Gordy isn't on your list because he was "awful at times". The first ever American to hold the Triple Crown, co-winner of the 1988, 1990, and 1991 Real World Tag League, multiple time holder of the AJPW World Tag Team Titles, and part of countless ****+ matches while in AJPW. But he digressed after his OD so he isn't worthy of being mentioned? I am NOT contradicting myself. I simply am giving MY opinions on the topic at hand. Plain and simple. I don't like Gordy, if you do fine, I made a top ten list and if there was more room then I would put Gordy on there. But if you disagree with me quit telling me I'm wrong and post YOUR top ten and we can take it from there. I would like to see others opinions on this and see who they leave out.....yourself included.
Guest Black Tiger Posted February 25, 2004 Report Posted February 25, 2004 take a look on the previous page, I posted my list, right after you posted yours.
Guest Loss Posted February 25, 2004 Report Posted February 25, 2004 I am NOT contradicting myself. I simply am giving MY opinions on the topic at hand. Plain and simple. I don't like Gordy, if you do fine, I made a top ten list and if there was more room then I would put Gordy on there. But if you disagree with me quit telling me I'm wrong and post YOUR top ten and we can take it from there. I would like to see others opinions on this and see who they leave out.....yourself included. Whatever your opinion should be is fine. The point is that you're using different criteria for everyone on your list. There's nothing to bind Hansen and Benoit, nor Williams and Norton, because in some cases, you have wrestlers who have been financial successes and in some cases, you have wrestlers who have been aesthetic successes. What is your criteria? I think that's the question both Black Tiger and myself are asking. I can't make a top ten list like you've asked me to do because I don't know what you're asking me to make a top ten list *of* exactly. If it's work-based, that's fine. If it's based on influence, drawing power and impact, so be it. But which is it?
Guest Dynamite Kido Posted February 25, 2004 Report Posted February 25, 2004 I am NOT contradicting myself. I simply am giving MY opinions on the topic at hand. Plain and simple. I don't like Gordy, if you do fine, I made a top ten list and if there was more room then I would put Gordy on there. But if you disagree with me quit telling me I'm wrong and post YOUR top ten and we can take it from there. I would like to see others opinions on this and see who they leave out.....yourself included. Whatever your opinion should be is fine. The point is that you're using different criteria for everyone on your list. There's nothing to bind Hansen and Benoit, nor Williams and Norton, because in some cases, you have wrestlers who have been financial successes and in some cases, you have wrestlers who have been aesthetic successes. What is your criteria? I think that's the question both Black Tiger and myself are asking. I can't make a top ten list like you've asked me to do because I don't know what you're asking me to make a top ten list *of* exactly. If it's work-based, that's fine. If it's based on influence, drawing power and impact, so be it. But which is it? I made a list of the top 10 gaijins of all time. Use whatever criteria is important to YOU. Example: If you watch puro and you've never seen a Steve Williams match, then he wouldn't be on YOUR list, would he? That is the only premise that I used. There wasn't much behind it to begin with, so it's not the most accurate list depending on how you look at it.
Guest Loss Posted February 25, 2004 Report Posted February 25, 2004 I made a list of the top 10 gaijins of all time. Use whatever criteria is important to YOU. Example: If you watch puro and you've never seen a Steve Williams match, then he wouldn't be on YOUR list, would he? That is the only premise that I used. There wasn't much behind it to begin with, so it's not the most accurate list depending on how you look at it. If I had never seen a Steve Williams match, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing a list of top ten gaijin. If you're looking at historical signficance and drawing power, I'll concede in full to Black Tiger's list.
Guest Dynamite Kido Posted February 25, 2004 Report Posted February 25, 2004 I made a list of the top 10 gaijins of all time. Use whatever criteria is important to YOU. Example: If you watch puro and you've never seen a Steve Williams match, then he wouldn't be on YOUR list, would he? That is the only premise that I used. There wasn't much behind it to begin with, so it's not the most accurate list depending on how you look at it. If I had never seen a Steve Williams match, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing a list of top ten gaijin. If you're looking at historical signficance and drawing power, I'll concede in full to Black Tiger's list. fine.
Guest Moses The Monkey Posted March 3, 2004 Report Posted March 3, 2004 I've got a question about the first Tiger Mask, Satoru Sayama. Was he sucessful without the mask? Did he even ever wrestle as Sayama? I know almost nothing about puro, but I haven't seen his named mentioned anywhere besides in relation to being Tiger Mask.
Sass Posted March 3, 2004 Report Posted March 3, 2004 I've got a question about the first Tiger Mask, Satoru Sayama. Shoot. Was he sucessful without the mask? Overall, no. He was more influential and famous when he wrestled as Tiger Mask then he was when he worked in the original UWF without his mask and costume. He saw his greatest success when he had his series of matches with the Dynamite Kid in the early 80's when he wrestled as TM. Not when he was Satoru Sayama and became infamous after getting into trouble with Akira Maeda in a match the two had (which eventually led to the UWF closing it's doors along with a variety of other reasons though). Did he even ever wrestle as Sayama? Yes. Most notably in the original UWF that was started in the mid 80's. Hope this helped Mo.
The Thread Killer Posted March 3, 2004 Report Posted March 3, 2004 Yeah Maeda kicked him right in the jimmy. You ever see that match Sass? I was going to order THESE TAPES from Tabe, but he probably wants MONEY for them or something. I wouldn't mind seeing his stuff from the UWF, just because I have a shitload of his TM stuff from NJPW.
Guest Moses The Monkey Posted March 3, 2004 Report Posted March 3, 2004 Yeah, you and Dave both helped me out, thanks Sass.
Guest Black Tiger Posted March 3, 2004 Report Posted March 3, 2004 Is there a difference between the All Japan Classics show and the Puroresu Classics show?
Guest The Last Free Voice Posted March 4, 2004 Report Posted March 4, 2004 Who is considered more important in the Japanese wrestling "culture"? Lyger or the Original Tiger Mask?
Guest Dynamite Kido Posted March 4, 2004 Report Posted March 4, 2004 Who is considered more important in the Japanese wrestling "culture"? Lyger or the Original Tiger Mask? I am just judging from the history factor, but I would say probably Tiger Mask. I am simply basing this on the fact that there are four seperate reincarnations of the Tiger Mask gimmick. Plus Sayama(the first Tiger Mask), was extremely revolutionary in creating that style.
Guest Jay Z. Hollywood Posted March 5, 2004 Report Posted March 5, 2004 This is a "what are the good shows" question -if this should have gone in a pinned topic I apologize. I want to get into Toryumon, but most of the names are indistinguishable to me other than CIMA, Dragon Kid and Yossino. Is there anything specific that's especially great?
thecitythesky Posted March 5, 2004 Report Posted March 5, 2004 as for Toryumon to check out... i admittedly haven't seen the promotion in quite a while. as American indies have been taking up a lot of my time and money as of late... however, if you've never seen any Toryumon i recommend you start with picking up the 3rd and 4th anniversary shows (07.01.01 and 07.15.02 respectively) and the Toryumon vs. T2P show from 09.08.02... all 3 are fantastic (although Dragon's tendency for Vince-esque overbooking gets a little tiresome, the matches that are allowed to be good are great)... and you get the a good introduction to a lot of cats who are really important now. and you get Ultimo Dragon's return and the Dragon Kid/Darkness Dragon 2/3 falls mask v. mask match.
Tawren Posted March 5, 2004 Report Posted March 5, 2004 This is a "what are the good shows" question -if this should have gone in a pinned topic I apologize. I want to get into Toryumon, but most of the names are indistinguishable to me other than CIMA, Dragon Kid and Yossino. Is there anything specific that's especially great? 9/8/02 4/22/03 6/29/03 9/26/03 My favorites, keep in mind I haven't seen much 99/00 Toryumon stuff.
Guest JebusNassedar Posted March 7, 2004 Report Posted March 7, 2004 Personal opinion stuff, as well as semi answer: I think that some of the best Toryumon workers to check out are any of the former Italian Connect members, who all hold their ground rather well. Milano Collection AT is a dazzling lucha-submission artist, YOSSINO is a very unorthodox luchadore, Brother YASSINI is a superb heel lucha (notice a theme?), and Shogo Takagi/Berlinetta Boxer is decent brawling type, who works a worked boxing style of sorts. I also have a bias towards Don Fuuji. I just cant resist a good German, and, well...DAMN. (admittedly stupid) Question: was/is RINGS worked or was it/is it real MMA stuff?
Guest The Last Free Voice Posted March 7, 2004 Report Posted March 7, 2004 Not exactly a PURO q, per se, but what does Ichiban mean? I've heard Daniels and Corino use it in reference to thier Japan careers so I thought I'd ask... Thanks.
Guest BionicRedneck Posted March 7, 2004 Report Posted March 7, 2004 'Ichiban' means (something like) 'Number 1' or 'Best'.
Guest The Last Free Voice Posted March 7, 2004 Report Posted March 7, 2004 Thanks. Another one: What's the Spicy (or Curry) Drop?
Guest BionicRedneck Posted March 7, 2004 Report Posted March 7, 2004 The Spicy Drop is a Reverse Firemans carry into DDT type thing. Curry usually does a little dance while his opponent is on his shoulders, too.
Guest RickyChosyu Posted March 8, 2004 Report Posted March 8, 2004 (admittedly stupid) Question: was/is RINGS worked or was it/is it real MMA stuff? RINGS started out as a worked shoot promotion like UWF, but began running real shoot matches and is now an MMA promotion.
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