bin Laden surrounded?

[Guest MikeSC]

You know..I can't remember there being evidence that Bin Laden was behind the Sep 11 attacks. I do believe that he was however. It will be interesting to see what the evidence against him is if/when he is captured and tried in a court.

I suppose his taped statements taking credit for it won't cut it for you, huh?

I forgot, the US likes to place "terror suspects" in concentration camps without charge, trial, representation or contact with family.

Ironically, the "concentration camps" are actually an IMPROVEMENT over where they were staying.

Perhaps that is stretching it a little in the case of Bin Laden. I have no doubt that he deserves to be punished and that he did orchestrate various terrorist attacks. The thing is, Bin Laden IS entitled to a fair hearing in an international court of law.

Says who?

 

He attacked us. He committed an act of war.

 

You don't send war criminals to criminal court. You kill them, show the body on Al-Jazeera, and then flip off the nit'l community who decries it. You then laugh about it, slam the corpse to the ground, and urinate on it.

-=Mike

[Guest hunger4unger]

I forgot, the US likes to place "terror suspects" in concentration camps without charge, trial, representation or contact with family.

Good grief. Gitmo Bay is hardly a concentration camp.

It's the new anti-semitism, Tom. You simply take horrible things that the Jews have been put through and belittle them by falsely placing those lables where they don't belong in order to demonize. Like calling Israelis Nazis. It's fun, try it!

Camp X-Ray IS like a concentration camp. There is no murder taking place (yet) but the conditions that these prisoners are forced to live in is worrying. Especialyl as many are held without charge, no representation and no sign of a trial. It's truly scary.

[Guest hunger4unger]

You know..I can't remember there being evidence that Bin Laden was behind the Sep 11 attacks. I do believe that he was however. It will be interesting to see what the evidence against him is if/when he is captured and tried in a court.

I suppose his taped statements taking credit for it won't cut it for you, huh?

I forgot, the US likes to place "terror suspects" in concentration camps without charge, trial, representation or contact with family.

Ironically, the "concentration camps" are actually an IMPROVEMENT over where they were staying.

Perhaps that is stretching it a little in the case of Bin Laden. I have no doubt that he deserves to be punished and that he did orchestrate various terrorist attacks. The thing is, Bin Laden IS entitled to a fair hearing in an international court of law.

Says who?

 

He attacked us. He committed an act of war.

 

You don't send war criminals to criminal court. You kill them, show the body on Al-Jazeera, and then flip off the nit'l community who decries it. You then laugh about it, slam the corpse to the ground, and urinate on it.

-=Mike

No, the taped statements don't cut it for me. Whilst I AM leaning towards the notion that Bin Laden was behind 9/11 i'm also fully aware that it's not beyond the Bush administration to alter/fabricate evidence to suit their needs.

 

Camp X-Ray is NOT an improvement over where they were staying. That is RIDICULOUS. By that reasoning is it okay to lock people up who are say, homeless?

 

Finally, Bin Laden and any other "terror suspect" or "war criminal" is entitled to a fair hearing in an international court of law. You can't go around killing people because you think they are a terrorist.

 

On the subject of people commiting war crimes, Sharon, Bush and Blair should really be investigated.

[Guest thebigjig]

I have NEVER heard from reliable sources, that Camp X-Ray is a concentration camp... are they forced to do manual hard labor? Are they starved to death? No, I dont think so...

 

Do you EXPECT these guys to stay in a four star hotel with a hottub?

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

You can't go around killing people because you think they are a terrorist.

 

You certainly can when they ARE one. Such as one Osama bin Laden.

[Guest thebigjig]

Bin Laden was behind 9/11... I dont think there is any SANE doubting of that. No one is questioning it...

 

However, he does deserve a fair trial... the Nazis got one at Nuremburg, and the terrorists deserve them too

 

And while we know that the Bush Administration is very keen on distorting (altering recent Bin Laden tapes so that the emphasis on encouraging the Iraqi people to stand up against the Americas is heavy, while the part where Bin Laden called Saddam an infidel was curiously ommitted) I very seriously doubt they could do what you are suggesting in this case. The evidence is there... Bin Laden has admitted to it, and I have seen no evidence what so ever of a reasonable defense of the man

[Guest hunger4unger]

I have NEVER heard from reliable sources, that Camp X-Ray is a concentration camp... are they forced to do manual hard labor? Are they starved to death? No, I dont think so...

 

Do you EXPECT these guys to stay in a four star hotel with a hottub?

They are handcuffed (behind their backs), feet tied together and forced to wear masks. No doubt the US media didn't show the awful photographs of the suspects. Of course, any CONVICTED terrorist deserves to be punished..the point here is that these are merely suspects! Many of them been there for TWO YEARS without charge.

[Guest thebigjig]

I have NEVER heard from reliable sources, that Camp X-Ray is a concentration camp... are they forced to do manual hard labor? Are they starved to death? No, I dont think so...

 

Do you EXPECT these guys to stay in a four star hotel with a hottub?

They are handcuffed (behind their backs), feet tied together and forced to wear masks. No doubt the US media didn't show the awful photographs of the suspects. Of course, any CONVICTED terrorist deserves to be punished..the point here is that these are merely suspects! Many of them been there for TWO YEARS without charge.

I agree that there are problems with this system... I find the idea of holding people under such circumstances without trial to be very very scary, but calling the place a concentration camp is absurd... go rent some holocaust documentaries and watch closely... THOSE are concentration camps

[Guest MikeSC]

No, the taped statements don't cut it for me.

I am Mike's lack of surprise.

Whilst I AM leaning towards the notion that Bin Laden was behind 9/11 i'm also fully aware that it's not beyond the Bush administration to alter/fabricate evidence to suit their needs.

Then why wouldn't they have fabricated evidence claiming that Saddam was directly behind it? It'd make much more sense.

Camp X-Ray is NOT an improvement over where they were staying. That is RIDICULOUS. By that reasoning is it okay to lock people up who are say, homeless?

Cuba is significantly nicer than a hole in the mountains in Afghanistan. People in Europe spend tons of money to visit Cuba on vacation. And, as somebody has pointed out, there hasn't been any forced manual labor --- or mass killings.

So, no, it's not quite like a concentration camp.

 

And you are aware that some homeless get themselves arrested so they'll have a warm meal and somewhere to sleep for the night, right?

Finally, Bin Laden and any other "terror suspect" or "war criminal" is entitled to a fair hearing in an international court of law. You can't go around killing people because you think they are a terrorist.

Screw "international courts". You attack us, we kill you. Simple.

On the subject of people commiting war crimes, Sharon, Bush and Blair should really be investigated.

Feel free. It only makes you look like a drooling dolt for even suggesting it.

They are handcuffed (behind their backs), feet tied together and forced to wear masks. No doubt the US media didn't show the awful photographs of the suspects. Of course, any CONVICTED terrorist deserves to be punished..the point here is that these are merely suspects! Many of them been there for TWO YEARS without charge.

OK, I'll go over this one last time:

 

The people at X-Ray have NO protections from the Geneva Conventions. Zilch.

I agree that there are problems with this system... I find the idea of holding people under such circumstances without trial to be very very scary, but calling the place a concentration camp is absurd... go rent some holocaust documentaries and watch closely... THOSE are concentration camps

Again, like Slapnuts stated, it's the new anti-Semitism.

 

There are few people as anti-Semitic as the European left.

 

Heck, Europe has seen more vandalism of synagogues and assaults on Jews since the Holocaust. Heck, the recent slate of attacks on synagogues aren't much lower than Kristallnacht.

-=Mike

[Firestarter 0]

Cuba is significantly nicer than a hole in the mountains in Afghanistan.

Ever see this one, Mike?

 

"I had a good time at Guantanamo," says inmate

 

He said that the American soldiers taught him and his fellow child captives - aged 15 and 13 - to write and speak a little English. They supplied them with books in their native Pashto language. When the three boys left last week for Afghanistan, the soldiers looking after them gave them a send-off dinner and urged them to continue their studies.

 

"They even took photographs of us all together before we left," he said. Mohammed, however, said he would have to disappoint his captors by not returning to his studies.

[Guest MikeSC]

Cuba is significantly nicer than a hole in the mountains in Afghanistan.

Ever see this one, Mike?

 

"I had a good time at Guantanamo," says inmate

 

He said that the American soldiers taught him and his fellow child captives - aged 15 and 13 - to write and speak a little English. They supplied them with books in their native Pashto language. When the three boys left last week for Afghanistan, the soldiers looking after them gave them a send-off dinner and urged them to continue their studies.

 

"They even took photographs of us all together before we left," he said. Mohammed, however, said he would have to disappoint his captors by not returning to his studies.

Shhh, Marney.

 

We're EVIL, remember?

 

EEEEEEEEVILLLLLLLL!

-=Mike

..."Remember, you can't spell 'Holocaust' without 'U.S' "

[Guest hunger4unger]

No, the taped statements don't cut it for me.

I am Mike's lack of surprise.

Whilst I AM leaning towards the notion that Bin Laden was behind 9/11 i'm also fully aware that it's not beyond the Bush administration to alter/fabricate evidence to suit their needs.

Then why wouldn't they have fabricated evidence claiming that Saddam was directly behind it? It'd make much more sense.

Camp X-Ray is NOT an improvement over where they were staying. That is RIDICULOUS. By that reasoning is it okay to lock people up who are say, homeless?

Cuba is significantly nicer than a hole in the mountains in Afghanistan. People in Europe spend tons of money to visit Cuba on vacation. And, as somebody has pointed out, there hasn't been any forced manual labor --- or mass killings.

So, no, it's not quite like a concentration camp.

 

And you are aware that some homeless get themselves arrested so they'll have a warm meal and somewhere to sleep for the night, right?

Finally, Bin Laden and any other "terror suspect" or "war criminal" is entitled to a fair hearing in an international court of law. You can't go around killing people because you think they are a terrorist.

Screw "international courts". You attack us, we kill you. Simple.

On the subject of people commiting war crimes, Sharon, Bush and Blair should really be investigated.

Feel free. It only makes you look like a drooling dolt for even suggesting it.

They are handcuffed (behind their backs), feet tied together and forced to wear masks. No doubt the US media didn't show the awful photographs of the suspects. Of course, any CONVICTED terrorist deserves to be punished..the point here is that these are merely suspects! Many of them been there for TWO YEARS without charge.

OK, I'll go over this one last time:

 

The people at X-Ray have NO protections from the Geneva Conventions. Zilch.

I agree that there are problems with this system... I find the idea of holding people under such circumstances without trial to be very very scary, but calling the place a concentration camp is absurd... go rent some holocaust documentaries and watch closely... THOSE are concentration camps

Again, like Slapnuts stated, it's the new anti-Semitism.

 

There are few people as anti-Semitic as the European left.

 

Heck, Europe has seen more vandalism of synagogues and assaults on Jews since the Holocaust. Heck, the recent slate of attacks on synagogues aren't much lower than Kristallnacht.

-=Mike

That is EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG..they are not allowed to be treated under the terms of the Geneva convention.

 

I think that my saying that Camp X-Ray was like a concentration camp has been take entirely the wrong way - I was by no means making light of what those sent to those camps by the Nazi's endured - it's merely a comparison. Sent to a camp. Sent there for no real reason except hate, kept there in appalling conditions, without charge or any signs of being charged or a trial.

 

I'm not understanding where this anti-semetic thing comes from..disliking what the Israeli government is doing does not make me anti-semetic. I dislike the US and UK governments..it doesn't mean I hate all US and UK citizens!

[Justice 0]

That is EXACTLY WHAT IS WRONG..they are not allowed to be treated under the terms of the Geneva convention.

 

I think that my saying that Camp X-Ray was like a concentration camp has been take entirely the wrong way - I was by no means making light of what those sent to those camps by the Nazi's endured - it's merely a comparison. Sent to a camp. Sent there for no real reason except hate, kept there in appalling conditions, without charge or any signs of being charged or a trial.

That's moronic! They aren't there because of HATE, they are there because THEY ARE TERRORISTS. The jews didn't attack the Nazis and try to plot their downfall. These people DID. Funny thing about the appalling conditions, because most of them have actually GAINED weight during their stay there (Got that from the New Yorker). This isn't at all appalling conditions, you just have to put down your propaganda papers and actually look at the facts.

 

We aren't taking your Concentration Camp reference right? We took it exactly right, and you are still dumb to make it.

[Justice 0]

I have NEVER heard from reliable sources, that Camp X-Ray is a concentration camp... are they forced to do manual hard labor? Are they starved to death? No, I dont think so...

 

Do you EXPECT these guys to stay in a four star hotel with a hottub?

They are handcuffed (behind their backs), feet tied together and forced to wear masks. No doubt the US media didn't show the awful photographs of the suspects. Of course, any CONVICTED terrorist deserves to be punished..the point here is that these are merely suspects! Many of them been there for TWO YEARS without charge.

Point in case, the suspects were caught FIGHTING AGAINST THE US FORCES WITH ASSAULT RIFLES. Uh, who is a suspect now?

[sfaJack 0]

Sent to a camp. Sent there for no real reason except hate, kept there in appalling conditions, without charge or any signs of being charged or a trial.

How about we send them to live with you in your parents' basement instead? That way, you can personally watch over them and feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that they're not living in the "appalling conditions" that we generously provide them. How about that? Are you up for that?

 

Jesus...I'm glad you're British because I'd be ashamed to share my country with you. It's bad enough we're stuck living on the same planet.

[Vern Gagne 0]

Sent to a camp. Sent there for no real reason except hate, kept there in appalling conditions, without charge or any signs of being charged or a trial.

How about we send them to live with you in your parents' basement instead? That way, you can personally watch over them and feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that they're not living in the "appalling conditions" that we generously provide them. How about that? Are you up for that?

 

Jesus...I'm glad you're British because I'd be ashamed to share my country with you. It's bad enough we're stuck living on the same planet.

Worse of all. He wouldn't care if Al Gore was President and the same thing was being done. This is entirely about not liking President Bush, and believing all these moronic conspiracy theories.

[Guest thebigjig]

ah but the key is that they are SUSPECTS... innocent until proven guilty... They've already released thousands of these "terrorists"

 

Now granted... under the hysteric conditions, I cant say that this wasn't necessary, so I only criticize the fact that most havent been allowed trials or lawyers... however, for those criticizing about the specific conditions, what would you have them do? What would you have done differently?

 

Just curious

[Vern Gagne 0]

The detainees don't fall under the geneva convention, and what rights too lawyers do enemy combatants not even fighting for a soveirgn nation have?

[Guest thebigjig]

The detainees don't fall under the geneva convention, and what rights too lawyers do enemy combatants not even fighting for a soveirgn nation have?

You're missing my point... they're not proven enemy combatants... they're suspects, many of which have already been released, having spent over a year in these camps for nothing... and that makes me kind of uncomfortable. Surely, if the situations were reversed, and these people were thousands of Americans, held as suspects by a foreign government, we would have a different view of things

 

Sadly, I know many many many Bush-Blowers that fall into this popular "all arabs are terrorists!" line of thinking, and thats sad

[Guest hunger4unger]

I have NEVER heard from reliable sources, that Camp X-Ray is a concentration camp... are they forced to do manual hard labor? Are they starved to death? No, I dont think so...

 

Do you EXPECT these guys to stay in a four star hotel with a hottub?

They are handcuffed (behind their backs), feet tied together and forced to wear masks. No doubt the US media didn't show the awful photographs of the suspects. Of course, any CONVICTED terrorist deserves to be punished..the point here is that these are merely suspects! Many of them been there for TWO YEARS without charge.

Point in case, the suspects were caught FIGHTING AGAINST THE US FORCES WITH ASSAULT RIFLES. Uh, who is a suspect now?

Not all of them were. The suspects should be dealt with fairly. If another country was doing this to US citizens the right would be in uproar.

[Guest hunger4unger]

Sent to a camp. Sent there for no real reason except hate, kept there in appalling conditions, without charge or any signs of being charged or a trial.

How about we send them to live with you in your parents' basement instead? That way, you can personally watch over them and feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that they're not living in the "appalling conditions" that we generously provide them. How about that? Are you up for that?

 

Jesus...I'm glad you're British because I'd be ashamed to share my country with you. It's bad enough we're stuck living on the same planet.

No, I don't want a terror suspect living in my parents basement, nor the basement of my own home. Some of these suspects will no doubt guilty of terrorisim..we don't know yet. No charges, no trials, no evidence shown....

[Vern Gagne 0]

The detainees don't fall under the geneva convention, and what rights too lawyers do enemy combatants not even fighting for a soveirgn nation have?

You're missing my point... they're not proven enemy combatants... they're suspects, many of which have already been released, having spent over a year in these camps for nothing... and that makes me kind of uncomfortable. Surely, if the situations were reversed, and these people were thousands of Americans, held as suspects by a foreign government, we would have a different view of things

 

Sadly, I know many many many Bush-Blowers that fall into this popular "all arabs are terrorists!" line of thinking, and thats sad

What exactly are they? They took up arms against the U.S., and it's allies. The mujhadeen certainly weren't in Afghanistan for the scenery.

[Guest MikeSC]

I have NEVER heard from reliable sources, that Camp X-Ray is a concentration camp... are they forced to do manual hard labor? Are they starved to death? No, I dont think so...

 

Do you EXPECT these guys to stay in a four star hotel with a hottub?

They are handcuffed (behind their backs), feet tied together and forced to wear masks. No doubt the US media didn't show the awful photographs of the suspects. Of course, any CONVICTED terrorist deserves to be punished..the point here is that these are merely suspects! Many of them been there for TWO YEARS without charge.

Point in case, the suspects were caught FIGHTING AGAINST THE US FORCES WITH ASSAULT RIFLES. Uh, who is a suspect now?

Not all of them were. The suspects should be dealt with fairly. If another country was doing this to US citizens the right would be in uproar.

If the FRENCH did this, we'd support them.

-=Mike

...I'd say we'd stand behind them, but if the wind is a head-on wind, that'd be a real bad idea.

[Guest MikeSC]

Bloody AOL.

-=Mike

[Guest BDC]

I have NEVER heard from reliable sources, that Camp X-Ray is a concentration camp... are they forced to do manual hard labor? Are they starved to death? No, I dont think so...

 

Do you EXPECT these guys to stay in a four star hotel with a hottub?

They are handcuffed (behind their backs), feet tied together and forced to wear masks. No doubt the US media didn't show the awful photographs of the suspects. Of course, any CONVICTED terrorist deserves to be punished..the point here is that these are merely suspects! Many of them been there for TWO YEARS without charge.

Point in case, the suspects were caught FIGHTING AGAINST THE US FORCES WITH ASSAULT RIFLES. Uh, who is a suspect now?

Not all of them were. The suspects should be dealt with fairly. If another country was doing this to US citizens the right would be in uproar.

Not all of them were? HOW do you know this? Please?

[Guest hunger4unger]

I think this as one of the released detainees has said as such. He was one of, I presume many, that were arrested (well, woke up out of their bed and dragged into a truck, then tied up and forced to go to Camp X-Ray) wrongly. The most disturbing thing is that there are kids in there too. The thing is, the US can't show to the world that these are terrorists as they aren't being charged with anything and have provided no evidence. It's all on the say so of the US, which is a SCARY notion.

 

Of course, anyone can claim to be innocent and it doesn't mean that they are, i'm not that naive, but seeing as these suspects are merely just that, SUSPECTS, held without charge, I am entirely comfortable in assuming that some of them will be entirely innocent. Even if one innocent man (or boy) is in there it's one too many.

[Guest thebigjig]

The detainees don't fall under the geneva convention, and what rights too lawyers do enemy combatants not even fighting for a soveirgn nation have?

You're missing my point... they're not proven enemy combatants... they're suspects, many of which have already been released, having spent over a year in these camps for nothing... and that makes me kind of uncomfortable. Surely, if the situations were reversed, and these people were thousands of Americans, held as suspects by a foreign government, we would have a different view of things

 

Sadly, I know many many many Bush-Blowers that fall into this popular "all arabs are terrorists!" line of thinking, and thats sad

What exactly are they? They took up arms against the U.S., and it's allies. The mujhadeen certainly weren't in Afghanistan for the scenery.

Oh, you mean our former terrorist allies??

 

I think it's obvious that many of those that were captured and held were not terrorists, because we're, you know, releasing them

[Guest JMA]

Bloody AOL.

Off-topic: You should get Charter. It's MUCH better than AOL.

[Guest MikeSC]

Bloody AOL.

Off-topic: You should get Charter. It's MUCH better than AOL.

Honestly, could I do WORSE than AOL?

 

I'm thinking smoke signals would be better.

-=Mike

[Guest JMA]

Hasn't this "bin Laden surrounded" story been proven false? Should it still be in the CE folder?