Police had 15 contacts with Columbine killers

[EdwardKnoxII 0]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Central/02/26/c...n.ap/index.html

 

Report: Police had 15 contacts with Columbine killers

 

LAKEWOOD, Colorado (AP) -- Authorities had at least 15 contacts with the Columbine High School killers dating back two years before their murderous attack, the state attorney general said Thursday, angering families of the victims.

 

Attorney General Ken Salazar did not, however, blame the Jefferson County sheriff's office for missing warning signs about Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.

 

Instead, he summarized how investigators reacted to 1997 complaints about Harris, from a thrown snowball that cracked a car window to a prank telephone call.

 

There were more ominous signs, too: Authorities have said an anonymous tip that year led a deputy to a Web site run by Harris that said the two teens had built pipe bombs and concluded: "Now our only problem is to find the place that will be 'ground zero."'

 

Harris, 18, and Klebold, 17, killed 12 students and a teacher before taking their own lives at the school near Littleton on April 20, 1999. It remains the deadliest school shooting in U.S. history.

 

"In the end, none of the many efforts to open up the Columbine records, including today's activity, will mean much beyond passing curiosity if we cannot learn from this tragedy," Salazar said at a news conference.

 

Authorities on Thursday also publicly unveiled a chilling display of evidence -- the murder weapons, bullet fragments, the chairs and tables where the victims were gunned down.

 

A message board put up in a school window that day still says in blue Magic Marker: "1 bleeding to death."

 

Authorities also released two videos, one of the anxious scene in a park across the street from the school that day, and another, 90-minute compilation of videos made by Harris and Klebold.

 

Much of the material is headed for the state archives. Relatives of the dead and survivors of the horrific attack saw much of it for the first time in a private viewing Wednesday.

 

"When you read about the number of bullets that were shot and you read about the number of guns, it's one thing," Darrell Scott, whose daughter Rachel was killed, said on NBC's "Today." "But when you walk into a room and see the overwhelming numbers of spent shells and bullets and pipe bombs and knives, it was just an overwhelming sight."

 

He said it was "the first time my wife and I had seen the gun that actually killed Rachel."

 

A key part of Salazar's investigation looked at work done by former sheriff's deputy John Hicks. Sheriff Ted Mink asked Salazar to investigate why a 1997 report by Hicks -- found in a folder last October -- was never reviewed as part of the probe into the shootings.

 

At the time, Mink said it seemed obvious the sheriff's office knew of Harris and Klebold long before the slayings.

 

Hicks also looked into a 1998 complaint that Harris posted a death threat against a fellow student on the Web site, along with descriptions of pipe bombs he and Klebold built.

 

Randy and Judy Brown, whose son was named in the threat, reported the information to the sheriff's office. A warrant was drafted to search Harris' home, but it was never executed.

 

Hicks left the department in 2000 and now lives in South Carolina.

 

Tom Mauser, whose son, Daniel, was killed at the school, said he wanted more details about why the search never took place.

 

"If we're going to learn lessons, that's a key part of it," he said. "Why did law enforcement stop where it did?"

 

Brian Rohrbough, whose son, Danny, died at Columbine, said he still hoped to get the information he and other family members have been seeking.

 

"We're going to keep looking until we get the answers," he said.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and if the cops had really done something about them back in the day we'd all be yelling OMG Quit Being Mean to Those two kids!

 

Except for Rant -- I'm sure he's always up for a good po-po beating...

[Guest thebigjig]

I dont really see how the cops could predict something like Columbine happening, from past incidents including a snowball cracking a window and a few prank phone calls...

 

Now, the cop knowing about the website with the pipe bomb instructions is kind of disturbing, but I still cant see how you can blame the police in this matter. I would need to see some real hard evidence of neglect to shift some of the blame

[Guest OctoberBlood]

Anyone see the videos? They acted like they were protraying the Matrix a bit with there Neo-eqsue look and walk. But I doubt it. I don't think the Matrix was out before the event, was it?

 

Anyways, I don't blame the Cops for this at all. There is no way you can, unless the boys clearly stated they were going on a killing spree.

[Guest El Satanico]

Oh I'm sure Matrix has been blamed at some point, along with many other forms of entertainment. After all it's the easiest thing for people to blame.

 

The most the police could've done was monitering them after finding the website, but that wouldn't have guaranteed anything. It's easy to play the if and but game after something happens.

[Guest MikeSC]

Anyone see the videos? They acted like they were protraying the Matrix a bit with there Neo-eqsue look and walk. But I doubt it. I don't think the Matrix was out before the event, was it?

 

Anyways, I don't blame the Cops for this at all. There is no way you can, unless the boys clearly stated they were going on a killing spree.

I think it was out at that time.

 

[whiny liberal mode]But they were kids! Who here hasn't done something dumb when they were young? We should understand them, not demonize them[/whiny liberal mode]

-=Mike

[treble 0]

Are you saying we shouldn't try and understand why they did what they did? Sure, these kids were fucked up but shouldn't we try and find out why they were so messed up so that something like this doesn't happen again?

 

Say they hadn't turned the guns on themselves after this went down. Obviously they should have the book thrown at them, but if we're going to stick them in prison for the rest of their lives or put them on death row, shouldn't that time be used to figure out their reasoning for killing a dozen people?

[Guest OctoberBlood]

Oh I'm sure Matrix has been blamed at some point, along with many other forms of entertainment. After all it's the easiest thing for people to blame.

 

The most the police could've done was monitering them after finding the website, but that wouldn't have guaranteed anything. It's easy to play the if and but game after something happens.

I wasn't blaming anyone or anything. I never put blame on the media for something like this, but I was just noting how they were trying to act like Neo, or so it seemed.

[Guest MikeSC]

Oh I'm sure Matrix has been blamed at some point, along with many other forms of entertainment. After all it's the easiest thing for people to blame.

 

The most the police could've done was monitering them after finding the website, but that wouldn't have guaranteed anything. It's easy to play the if and but game after something happens.

I wasn't blaming anyone or anything. I never put blame on the media for something like this, but I was just noting how they were trying to act like Neo, or so it seemed.

They were also trying to re-enact Doom, apparently. One of the kids made some mediocre Doom mods.

 

So, not only were they shitty little dorks --- they were OUT-OF-TOUCH with the times shitty, little dorks.

-=Mike

[Guest thebigjig]

Anyone see the videos? They acted like they were protraying the Matrix a bit with there Neo-eqsue look and walk. But I doubt it. I don't think the Matrix was out before the event, was it?

 

Anyways, I don't blame the Cops for this at all. There is no way you can, unless the boys clearly stated they were going on a killing spree.

I think it was out at that time.

 

[whiny liberal mode]But they were kids! Who here hasn't done something dumb when they were young? We should understand them, not demonize them[/whiny liberal mode]

-=Mike

No... they should be demonized... but it works both ways... we should condemn their actions, but also try and understand what turned them that way. Sure, there are no excuses, and nothing justifies what they did, but we must try and understand the cause and effect here

 

similar to the 9/11 argument that if you attempt to study the point of view of the enemy, you are somehow labeled by conservatives as being on their side, which is just complete bullshit

[Guest BDC]

Said it before, say it again: Where in the HELL were the parents in the midst of all of this?!

[Guest thebigjig]

Said it before, say it again: Where in the HELL were the parents in the midst of all of this?!

I think its a mistake to blame parents so much in these times... but in this case, I ask the same question... these kids made bombs, had all of that damn ammo, and were obviously deeply disturbed... how could the parents NOT know something was up? And if they did, why did they ignore the behavior?

[Guest MikeSC]

Anyone see the videos? They acted like they were protraying the Matrix a bit with there Neo-eqsue look and walk. But I doubt it. I don't think the Matrix was out before the event, was it?

 

Anyways, I don't blame the Cops for this at all. There is no way you can, unless the boys clearly stated they were going on a killing spree.

I think it was out at that time.

 

[whiny liberal mode]But they were kids! Who here hasn't done something dumb when they were young? We should understand them, not demonize them[/whiny liberal mode]

-=Mike

No... they should be demonized... but it works both ways... we should condemn their actions, but also try and understand what turned them that way. Sure, there are no excuses, and nothing justifies what they did, but we must try and understand the cause and effect here

 

similar to the 9/11 argument that if you attempt to study the point of view of the enemy, you are somehow labeled by conservatives as being on their side, which is just complete bullshit

Why'd they do it?

 

Because they were screwed up little dorks.

 

They're dead now and the world is better for it.

 

I just saved millions upon millions in study costs.

-=Mike

[Guest thebigjig]

Anyone see the videos? They acted like they were protraying the Matrix a bit with there Neo-eqsue look and walk. But I doubt it. I don't think the Matrix was out before the event, was it?

 

Anyways, I don't blame the Cops for this at all. There is no way you can, unless the boys clearly stated they were going on a killing spree.

I think it was out at that time.

 

[whiny liberal mode]But they were kids! Who here hasn't done something dumb when they were young? We should understand them, not demonize them[/whiny liberal mode]

-=Mike

No... they should be demonized... but it works both ways... we should condemn their actions, but also try and understand what turned them that way. Sure, there are no excuses, and nothing justifies what they did, but we must try and understand the cause and effect here

 

similar to the 9/11 argument that if you attempt to study the point of view of the enemy, you are somehow labeled by conservatives as being on their side, which is just complete bullshit

Why'd they do it?

 

Because they were screwed up little dorks.

 

They're dead now and the world is better for it.

 

I just saved millions upon millions in study costs.

-=Mike

what made them screwed up little dorks? This ignorant Bill O'Reilly bullshit makes me laugh

[Guest El Satanico]

Oh I'm sure Matrix has been blamed at some point, along with many other forms of entertainment. After all it's the easiest thing for people to blame.

 

The most the police could've done was monitering them after finding the website, but that wouldn't have guaranteed anything. It's easy to play the if and but game after something happens.

I wasn't blaming anyone or anything. I never put blame on the media for something like this, but I was just noting how they were trying to act like Neo, or so it seemed.

Slow down there...I wasn't saying you were

[Guest MikeSC]

Anyone see the videos? They acted like they were protraying the Matrix a bit with there Neo-eqsue look and walk. But I doubt it. I don't think the Matrix was out before the event, was it?

 

Anyways, I don't blame the Cops for this at all. There is no way you can, unless the boys clearly stated they were going on a killing spree.

I think it was out at that time.

 

[whiny liberal mode]But they were kids! Who here hasn't done something dumb when they were young? We should understand them, not demonize them[/whiny liberal mode]

-=Mike

No... they should be demonized... but it works both ways... we should condemn their actions, but also try and understand what turned them that way. Sure, there are no excuses, and nothing justifies what they did, but we must try and understand the cause and effect here

 

similar to the 9/11 argument that if you attempt to study the point of view of the enemy, you are somehow labeled by conservatives as being on their side, which is just complete bullshit

Why'd they do it?

 

Because they were screwed up little dorks.

 

They're dead now and the world is better for it.

 

I just saved millions upon millions in study costs.

-=Mike

what made them screwed up little dorks? This ignorant Bill O'Reilly bullshit makes me laugh

You know, sometimes people are just BAD. Plain and simple.

 

Why was Hitler bad?

Why was Stalin bad?

Why was Pol Pot bad?

 

Maybe, just maybe, they were just bad. I have not done enough study of Stalin and Pot to say for certain, but with Hitler, NOBODY has figured out what led him to be the evil man he was.

 

Some people are evil. It's the way of the world. Those two (thankfully) rotting corpses were two of them.

[Guest Crazy Dan]

In this case, sure the police might have been able to do something, just like their parents could have paid more attention to their kids extra curricular activities. Hindsight is 20/20. I agree that the police would have really needed hard core evidence to really have been able to maybe prevent it. No this has so many factors involved, the police unfortunately don't have a "Minority Report"-style pre-justice, and just had no real way of preventing this. I feel that many factors were involved. When mixed together, bad things really happen, and many kids die way before their time.

 

But, at the same time, this is a case, hypothetically speaking, where if they had been arrested, they should be tried as adults. What they did was First Degree murder. They planned to blow their school up and kill as many as they could. And that should make 16-17 years eligible to be tried as adults. And no, this is not a case of them being "just kids". Kids might throw a few eggs, shop lift beer, vandalize, and stuff like that. Kids don't plan to blow up the school, killing everyone in it. That is what mass murderers do, and this is exactly how these two should be viewed as.

 

But this is case where you have two alienated youths. Probably picked on pretty bad at one point or another. I have feeling they didn't have many friends, if any. I think that they probably had many Friday Nights open, spent watching TV or playing video games. They hear about the party 3 weeks after the event. No way that they have ever dated any girls or even talk to any girls would not suprise me one bit. It was probable to the point where even the ugly ones would more than likely turn them down.

 

My guess is that their the parents had better things to do, than actually, you know parent. I know I can relate to what they might have gone through, up to a point. I know I was a dork (sad day when you finally accept it) in highschool. I am sure many can attest to high school sucking big time. But, many power through it, go to college, get a degree, and now they are the ones who are successful, and the the kids who gave them the hardest time, are asking "Do you want Fries with that order?"

 

That is just what life is like many times. Life is unfair. But it is so sad when two kids get pushed over the edge to the point where they actually plan, and go through with murder. How does it get this bad? And I really don't think that they were born evil. I think that for whatever reason, just the right mix of bad things, loneliness, and many other things, was enough to push them over the edge. And worse, they were almost done with highschool, what is the cause of many bad childhood memories, but at the same time, it is just one phase of our lives. To let one bad experience push you to murder, well that is just disturbing.

 

What they did was terrible. For all its faults,"Bowling for Columbine" I think does a good job of giving the viewer a feel of what happened. The whole montage of the events unfolding, gave me chills. And it was so sad to see the survivors broken down, and crying. When they killed their first victim, they no longer were kids. They won't get any pity from me. I know that there were many times I felt so alone at highschool. I hated most of highschool, but I never at anytime, ever thought of killing my class mates. And I played fairly violent games and watched violent films and that never gave me any inspiration to plot to blow the school up. Like I said, I can relate to much what they were, more than likely, were going through, but that is where the similarties end.

 

And I feel that if they hadn't killed themselves, they should have been tried as adults, and put away for life. But I guess they sped the process up. Trully a sad moment, hopefully we can learn something about this. And make sure it doesn't happen again, because when you are a teen, you should be more worried about your face breaking out, whether Suzie likes you or thinks you are gross, and why the football team consist of every known jerk at scholl, who think they own the school. Not wheather I might die or live today.

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Why was Hitler bad?

Why was Stalin bad?

Why was Pol Pot bad?

How insensitive.

 

They just needed counseling.

 

Now Mel Gibson, that's BAD...

[Guest MikeSC]

Why was Hitler bad?

Why was Stalin bad?

Why was Pol Pot bad?

How insensitive.

 

They just needed counseling.

 

Now Mel Gibson, that's BAD...

Well, he's not as bad as, say, Pres. Bush.

 

Now George --- HE is evil.

-=Mike

...I mean, heck, the Bushes have ties to Nazis --- the psychotic left says so

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

Why was Hitler bad?

Why was Stalin bad?

Why was Pol Pot bad?

How insensitive.

 

They just needed counseling.

 

Now Mel Gibson, that's BAD...

Well, he's not as bad as, say, Pres. Bush.

 

Now George --- HE is evil.

-=Mike

...I mean, heck, the Bushes have ties to Nazis --- the psychotic left says so

I think I may have to disagree with you Mike.

 

Everybody knows that W. is HITLER v. 2.0.

 

And since Hitler wasn't really bad and just needed some counseling, Bush is not quite up to the level of a John Rocker or Mel Gibson...

[Guest MikeSC]

Why was Hitler bad?

Why was Stalin bad?

Why was Pol Pot bad?

How insensitive.

 

They just needed counseling.

 

Now Mel Gibson, that's BAD...

Well, he's not as bad as, say, Pres. Bush.

 

Now George --- HE is evil.

-=Mike

...I mean, heck, the Bushes have ties to Nazis --- the psychotic left says so

I think I may have to disagree with you Mike.

 

Everybody knows that W. is HITLER v. 2.0.

 

And since Hitler wasn't really bad and just needed some counseling, Bush is not quite up to the level of a John Rocker or Mel Gibson...

Is he is as bad as Lott?

 

How about Secretary Paige?

-=Mike

[kkktookmybabyaway 0]

How about Secretary Paige?

-=Mike

Good God, don't get me started on Paige.

 

What's the difference between what Paige said and Kerry going "We need a regieme change in the White House?"

 

Both were failed attempts at humor...