Psychology behind the Irish Whip?

[Guest ravman77]

Went to the WWE UK houseshow and the Kidman/Rhyno match got me thinking.

 

If you have a big man vs a small man, why would the smaller guy ever try an Irish Whip, regardless of how tired or groggy the opponent is? In theory, does the smaller man want it to be reversed so that he can hit something like a flying elbow rebounding off the ropes? It seems a bit stupid otherwise? Why would someone of Kidman or Reys size ever try and whip Rhyno or Batista?...

 

Hope that makes sense!

[Rendclaw 0]

The way I see it, it comes down to the dispelling your sense of disbelief... I think only after someone has been beaten down sufficently or off balance does an irish whip of any kind actually work, regardless of weight. Wrestlers of equal size can and should whip and reverse each other around with impunity, while a cruiserweight like Rey knows that even against a normal heavyweight he is going to get reversed more often that not, so one would think that a counterattack off the ropes would be the best strategy.

 

That's why I groaned last night when Big Show went up against Rey, because the size difference is so damned massive that it wasn;t going to be a very entertaining match. If you are going to put someone up against Rey, he should be big enough to be subjected to Rey's offense, like an Eddie Guererro. That's why the title match between them was another in a long line of wrestling classics, dating back to their lucha days, and going through their matches in WCW. Eddie may be bigger and stronger than Rey (and to be honest, who isn't), but he is not immune to any of Rey's moves, and it makes for a MUCH better match than against Show or say, a Brock Lesnar.

[Guest ravman77]

I think youre spot on with that post Rendclaw, especially the whole suspension of belief thing.

 

Makes me wonder if the generic 'template' for a wrestling match will ever change? Things like the charge into the corner, the reversed Irish whip, the missed tag to the partner... will it ever change? Theyre all necessary transitions and can build/change the flow of the match but are they outdated and too obvious these days?

[Guest Jimbo]

Well, the idea of a irish whip doesn't go against logic, but how it is sold, is.

 

It is not treated as muhc like a whip as it could be.

 

When you are fighting somebody, haven't you tried to throw them into something? That's basically irish whipping them.

 

....and this can be seen in the wrestling ring with the proper selling and actions by both men.

 

for example, when you irish whip someone, if the whipper digs down and really pulls the guy, maybe even stepping or stumbling a bit back as he does it, it looks "real". It also looks "real" if the whippee allows himself and his arm or whatever get pulled with the whip before running through it and into the ropes.

 

In addition, it helps it to look better, if when going into the turnbuckle, they turn right before going into the corner, instead of about half way turning aourn and backing hte rest of the way in.

 

However, most people don't do these things or take the effort to make the move look good at all. They run with the whip, not letting themselves get pulled and concentrate much further on running by the whippee. Also, the whipper hardly puts much into it at all, just kind of pulling the guys arm a bit, signalling that it's their turn to run across the ring. Also in one of the most illogical moves ever, people seem to "push" them as they let go in the back...wtf? If you ned to push the guy you just whipped, you did a really shitty whip, and you deserve to get the taste smacked outta mouth.

 

...hope you all understood that, lol.

 

So what I'm trying to say is, it is a veyr logical move, it just looks stupid, because of how people work the move, and also, as mentioned before, the people and situations where the move is attempted.

[Jingus 0]

Oh yeah, you can do a shoot Irish whip. I've seen it done on a few occasions. The secret is not the whip itself, but pushing them REALLY fucking hard on the back as you whip them in. Do it hard enough, and the guy will sometimes shoot bounce off the ropes back towards you. It's really funny to watch.

[Sandman9000 0]

I think youre spot on with that post Rendclaw, especially the whole suspension of belief thing.

 

Makes me wonder if the generic 'template' for a wrestling match will ever change? Things like the charge into the corner, the reversed Irish whip, the missed tag to the partner... will it ever change? Theyre all necessary transitions and can build/change the flow of the match but are they outdated and too obvious these days?

It can. In some IWA-MS matches, specifially those with either Ian Rotten or Chris Hero, they rarely hit the ropes, if at all. They also rarely throw closed fists, though don't take that to mean they don't use strikes at all, because they do. They sure as hell do.

 

Also, I haven't seen any of the ROH Pure Division yet, but it wouldn't surprise me if they rarely use the ropes.

[Rendclaw 0]

There are some things that really shouldn't be taken away from a match, such as the charge into the corner... it comes down to *when* its used in a match.. I know wrestling is a work, but I buy into the "human chess" principle. That's why in my opinion those matches from the 80s, say, a Steamboat Vs. Flair are grandmaster level "human chess" matches. Predetermined outcome? Sure. But the journey to that outcome should be the best way possible.

 

And some of the most devasating blows are not with a closed fist. Palm strikes to the right areas can kill a human being or severely incapacitate him.