What's going on?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Benoit being the focus of the show would just expose his weaknesses..such as everything but his ringwork

 

Yeah, cause his promos have been SO BAD as of late.

[JoeDirt 0]

RRR, you are also officially in PowerB territory, congrats.

 

Does PowerB territory mean that rather than actually replying I just post a one liner that means absolutely dick all? Listen, I said that HHH did good tonight by putting over Benjamin, BUT he did it in the past with various other "underdogs". What happened before, however, was that there was no follow up and they sank to the bottom of the card. They can't do that with Benjamin. So hows about you fuck off, cause you're in Downhome territory.

I think the _way_ they put Benjamin over gives reason to hope there's more chance for Benjamin to get over than when HHH put over Storm, Taka, Hurricane, etc.

[2GOLD 0]

Benoit being the focus of the show would just expose his weaknesses..such as everything but his ringwork

 

Yeah, cause his promos have been SO BAD as of late.

 

Benoit has improved greatly on the mic and I'm just wondering if maybe his problem was mic time and relaxation.

 

After HHH, who is the next heel in line?

 

I mean, no chance in hell does Christian get a main event in the WWE. Orton still has the IC title so he's not next. Kane will be feuding with Edge it looks like so I doubt he's next in line.

 

What happened to all the heels??

Both shows are just devoid of talented heels.

[Downhome 0]

Does PowerB territory mean that rather than actually replying I just post a one liner that means absolutely dick all?

It means that untill something snaps in your head, you'll always look on the bad side of every great thing that ever happens.

 

That's all.

 

I listed three things that has happened in the past month, less than a month, that HHH has NEVER done before in such a time frame, that is most deffiently a change for HHH, like it or not.

[JoeDirt 0]

Benoit being the focus of the show would just expose his weaknesses..such as everything but his ringwork

 

Yeah, cause his promos have been SO BAD as of late.

 

Benoit has improved greatly on the mic and I'm just wondering if maybe his problem was mic time and relaxation.

 

After HHH, who is the next heel in line?

 

I mean, no chance in hell does Christian get a main event in the WWE. Orton still has the IC title so he's not next. Kane will be feuding with Edge it looks like so I doubt he's next in line.

 

What happened to all the heels??

Both shows are just devoid of talented heels.

I wouldn't say guys like Christian are UNTALENTED...he's just not bought as serious a heel as guys like HHH...which isn't much of a surprise.

[Guest Anglesault]

Main event slot and focus of the show are different things.

Put it however you want, there were times when HHH was the champ where he was both not in the main event nor the focus of the show.

.

I remember one or two during the Kane angle.

 

Hell, HHH in some form or another was the focus of the show during Shawn and FGB's reigns when the man wasn't even on TV

 

He's been the focus of about 98% of the time since July 2002.

[2GOLD 0]

Benoit being the focus of the show would just expose his weaknesses..such as everything but his ringwork

 

Yeah, cause his promos have been SO BAD as of late.

 

Benoit has improved greatly on the mic and I'm just wondering if maybe his problem was mic time and relaxation.

 

After HHH, who is the next heel in line?

 

I mean, no chance in hell does Christian get a main event in the WWE. Orton still has the IC title so he's not next. Kane will be feuding with Edge it looks like so I doubt he's next in line.

 

What happened to all the heels??

Both shows are just devoid of talented heels.

I wouldn't say guys like Christian are UNTALENTED...he's just not bought as serious a heel as guys like HHH...which isn't much of a surprise.

 

Christian doesn't come off as a dangerous heel yet, that's basically what I meant by talented heel. He has ring talent, but he just doesn't seem like a main event heel to me.

 

More like Trish's lap dog.

 

He's talented, but he's not the kind of heel I could see in a main event when he's basically Trish's walking dick.

[Guest Anglesault]

I listed three things that has happened in the past month, less than a month, that HHH has NEVER done before in such a time frame, that is most deffiently a change for HHH, like it or not.

You said he lost the title to a man's finisher clean. I can think of two other examples.

 

You said he lost by DQ. I can think of at least two examples.

 

You had maybe one good point, and I'd have to see the match to confirm.

[Downhome 0]

Main event slot and focus of the show are different things.

Put it however you want, there were times when HHH was the champ where he was both not in the main event nor the focus of the show.

.

I remember one or two during the Kane angle.

 

Hell, HHH in some form or another was the focus of the show during Shawn and FGB's reigns when the man wasn't even on TV

 

He's been the focus of about 98% of the time since July 2002.

And I remember a few where Orton/Foley was the focus of the entire show.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

I think the _way_ they put Benjamin over gives reason to hope there's more chance for Benjamin to get over than when HHH put over Storm, Taka, Hurricane, etc.

 

Oh I agree, I don't think they'll totally screw it up in the next few weeks as they've paired him up with Benoit who has been paired up with Michaels; which means that Benjamin will stay in the Evolution mix and then will probably get paired off vs. Orton... but I don't see Benjamin in say, October, better off than he was on Smackdown... unfortunately. So while there is short term gains for SB, long term I don't see it happening.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

It means that untill something snaps in your head, you'll always look on the bad side of every great thing that ever happens.

 

That's all.

 

I look at both sides. Nothing wrong with that.

[JoeDirt 0]

I think the _way_ they put Benjamin over gives reason to hope there's more chance for Benjamin to get over than when HHH put over Storm, Taka, Hurricane, etc.

 

Oh I agree, I don't think they'll totally screw it up in the next few weeks as they've paired him up with Benoit who has been paired up with Michaels; which means that Benjamin will stay in the Evolution mix and then will probably get paired off vs. Orton... but I don't see Benjamin in say, October, better off than he was on Smackdown... unfortunately. So while there is short term gains for SB, long term I don't see it happening.

Really? I see him WAY better off by October than a midcard tag team wrestler...I really think they're set to give him a pretty solid push.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

And I remember a few where Orton/Foley was the focus of the entire show.

 

Yeah, like Benoits return to RAW where he stated his intention for the World Title.

 

Boy, he sure got put over in that feud!

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Really? I see him WAY better off by October than a midcard tag team wrestler...I really think they're set to give him a pretty solid push.

 

Once he wins the IC title, he's going to be in limbo. With Orton and Christian, it will be high(er) profile limbo, and then after that... what?

[JoeDirt 0]

Really? I see him WAY better off by October than a midcard tag team wrestler...I really think they're set to give him a pretty solid push.

 

Once he wins the IC title, he's going to be in limbo. With Orton and Christian, it will be high(er) profile limbo, and then after that... what?

I don't know if they'll put him with Orton, just because it looks like they want to put both guys over heavily, so programming them against each other kind of negates that unless it's a really good feud (maybe like Rock/HHH from 98). But you make a good point, since there aren't many big heels on RAW right now outside of X and Evolution...looks like they have some work to do.

[Guest El Satanico]

Why is blind optimism met with acceptance, but pessimism met with cold shoulders?

 

RRR didn't shit on the Benjamin/HHH match and the Benjamin win. WWe has bred pessimism into us, so at this point having optimism in WWe is a mistake.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Because you're only supposed to look at certain issues from one perspective, otherwise you're not 'appreciating it for what it is'.

 

I still reflect back to the 'Ultimo Dragon gets signed' thread from last year that turned into an Apologist vs. Complainers mud-slinging contest. I believe the Complainers won that round in the long run. If anything, these things have their comedic value.

[chaosrage 0]

Why is blind optimism met with acceptance, but pessimism met with cold shoulders?

 

RRR didn't shit on the Benjamin/HHH match and the Benjamin win. WWe has bred pessimism into us, so at this point having optimism in WWe is a mistake.

After Benoit came out #1 in the Rumble and won it, Eddy won the title, Benoit made HHH fucking tap to win the world title in the ME of the biggest PPV ever, and tonight? No, wait until they actually do something wrong, then complain.

[Scroby 0]

Here's just an idea...How bout we all quit arguing about it, enjoy what happen tonight, and see what happens next week, THEN bitch about what happens?

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

You didn't say what would be bitch-worthy for next week and what wouldn't be. Your proposed scenario opens up the possibility of unwarranted bitching, but maybe it's just your wording.

 

I need to be on top of these kinds of things!

[Scroby 0]

See thats the point, we watch next week and we'll all discover whats bitch-worthy.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

I disagree on that.

 

There's always a difference in opinion on what is bitch-worthy and what isn't. RRR will take something to task, and he himself will get criticized for it. You know it'll happen.

 

Where it all beings again, indeed.

[Scroby 0]

Can't we all agree to disagree?

[Guest Anglesault]

Why is blind optimism met with acceptance, but pessimism met with cold shoulders?

 

RRR didn't shit on the Benjamin/HHH match and the Benjamin win. WWe has bred pessimism into us, so at this point having optimism in WWe is a mistake.

After Benoit came out #1 in the Rumble and won it, Eddy won the title, Benoit made HHH fucking tap to win the world title in the ME of the biggest PPV ever, and tonight? No, wait until they actually do something wrong, then complain.

You forgot that they made Benoit, the champion, a total non issue all three weeks and started an Eddie/BRADSHAW feud.

[Guest Goodear]

It wasn't as clean as purely driven snow... but Shelton shouldn't be beating Triple H like that at this point anyway. Doing so causes a leap of card status beyond what most fans will see as acceptable and such huge bridges don't usually work in my opinion. It makes a whole lot more sense to me to have Shelton get a slightly wonky pin on RAW in order to make a more acceptable step up the card. Besides, say he does beat Triple H clean as a whistle... where does he go from there? The lad needs to have mountains to climb. But this was an exceptionally good step down that path.

 

Shelton's face tap and 'this close' motions during the match were great as well as Triple H's reactions to the moves. He sold that perfectly as a total 'OMG WTF?' as oppossed to a 'OMG I'll kill you!' which is just what the match needed to establish that Shelton doesn't have the fear of HHH that it seems some guys have. Shelton didn't retreat or take it laying down... he went out and made something of the situation. The reaction to Batista yelling in his face (good part of that segment in my view) of Shelton just sort of grinning in the face of it also illustrated the angle in a very nice way.

[NYU 0]

It's a little disheartening to read the verbal fellatio some are giving to HHH after last night.

 

I can't deny the fact that the match worked out well. It accomplished its job in putting Shelton Benjamin over and introducing him to the Raw fans as a single superstar. Triple H did a good job selling Shelton's moves during the match, looking stupid for having underestimated him so much. It was a good match, and Hunter did a good job.

 

But let's not paint him as a saint here.

 

What some are failing to realize about last night is.....it's not that big of a deal! Triple H put over somebody that just isn't a big threat to his spot on the card - and probably won't be for a couple of years. His motives can be seen in what he did to the careers of Rob Van Dam.....Booker T.....Kane.....guys that were actually somewhat of a threat to his spot. When it came to put over somebody that actually had a SHOT of being placed in the Main Event, Hunter always wound up coming out on top. Those three guys each had their credibility hurt after a match with Hunter, and the circumstances can't be forgotten. They all had the match that could have shot them into the next echelon of Raw, and HHH wound up shutting all of them out. While they each lost by pinfall, buddy Shawn Michaels cleanly pinned Triple H in the Elimination Chamber, and buddy Kevin Nash threw Triple H around the entire arena at Judgment Day 2003. A year ago, Hunter STILL stood in the way of guys that had a chance to become something - only to help out his friends. These things can't be forgotten.

 

And before someone mentions Goldberg or Chris Benoit....Goldberg looked good in his feud, but who came out on top? Who outsmarted him at Armageddon, took back the title, and came out the top person of the feud without the guy looking for revenge? Hunter did. As for Benoit, I believe RRR covered that in one of his previous posts already. He wasn't exactly put over GOLDEN by Triple H.....and we have yet to see where that feud goes anyway.

 

Yes, he put over Shelton nicely. But Shelton is not a threat to his spot. There was no risk in giving Benjamin a fluke - and yes, FLUKE....Triple H was distracted by the action outside the ring, and Shelton got in a quick roll-up - victory. When it came time to do the right thing for guys that actually needed it, we saw what happened.

 

Can we please remember this before we start singing the praises of Hunter once again?

[Guest Goodear]

And before someone mentions Goldberg or Chris Benoit....Goldberg looked good in his feud, but who came out on top?

 

Not to deny anything else you said, but with Goldberg leaving the company it wouldn't actually make sense to put him over Triple H to the extent that HHH would be shot down the card. Why give that boost to someone who isn't goign to be around?

 

Yes, he put over Shelton nicely. But Shelton is not a threat to his spot. There was no risk in giving Benjamin a fluke - and yes, FLUKE....Triple H was distracted by the action outside the ring, and Shelton got in a quick roll-up - victory. When it came time to do the right thing for guys that actually needed it, we saw what happened.

 

Personally I don't think RVD, Booker or even Jericho would make good main eventers... but thats beside the point. Triple H stomped them pretty good and they got shuffled off to a midcard with no direction for a year (which I would argue hurt them more than the loss to the World Champion).

 

Anyway, the difference between Shelton and the normal fluke winners is that he was still going even up with Triple H the entire match which makes a world of difference. It's not like Hunter kicked the crap out of him all match long and then Benoit hit him with a chair or something. Shelton was legitamitely competing with the biggest name active guy in the company. So much so that Hunter signaled to Flair to help him out (which set off the fracass on the outside that eventually distracted HHH).

[NYU 0]

Not to deny anything else you said, but with Goldberg leaving the company it wouldn't actually make sense to put him over Triple H to the extent that HHH would be shot down the card.  Why give that boost to someone who isn't goign to be around?

 

Well, it was still three months before his contract ended. There was always the possiblity that he would resign. However, I do see your point...

 

....but.....

 

....any particular reason why HHH got the title back? Kane was right there to be put over the title and given a solid push, but he lost anyway. It also rendered the HHH/Goldberg feud pointless, considering Goldberg never tried to get revenge on the guy that stole his title and who he had been feuding with for months. It made the whole thing a waste of time.

 

And let's be realistic....HHH wouldn't have been shot down the card anyway. No matter how many times he lost to Goldberg.

 

Anyway, the difference between Shelton and the normal fluke winners is that he was still going even up with Triple H the entire match which makes a world of difference.  It's not like Hunter kicked the crap out of him all match long and then Benoit hit him with a chair or something.

 

Well, it was STILL a fluke. Triple H's reactions weren't one of "Man, what can I do to put Shelton down?! He's kicking my ass." His reactions were more of a "I underestimated his skill" feeling. He didn't expect Shelton to come out quite so ready, and he was blindsided by it. Does it make Shelton look good? Sure. But it doesn't change the fact that Hunter wasn't prepared for that kind of match, and I'm sure he WILL mention this eventually. The attitude of Hunter during his match with Shelton was a BIG contrast from, say, his attitude during his match with Shawn Michaels on the 12/29 Raw. One had a feeling of "Triple H has no idea how to end this match! He's giving everything he has!". The other had a feeling of "Triple H didn't expect this tonight." Big difference.

 

I'm not disputing that it was a good match and an acceptable way to put Shelton over. But let's not make it into more than what it actually was. He helped out a guy that's not going to be an immediate threat to his spot....and he did it in a way that didn't really hurt him any. Hunter lost because he didn't have his full attention in the match. What would have happened if he did? What would have happened if he REALLY tried? Those questions block some of the progression that Shelton might have had after the match.

[chaosrage 0]

You forgot that they made Benoit, the champion, a total non issue all three weeks and started an Eddie/BRADSHAW feud.

2 weeks. Would you rather have the Shawn/Benoit match with the screwy ending finish the show instead of HHH/Shelton?

 

What else can Eddie do?

[Guest Vitamin X]

I still reflect back to the 'Ultimo Dragon gets signed' thread from last year that turned into an Apologist vs. Complainers mud-slinging contest. I believe the Complainers won that round in the long run. If anything, these things have their comedic value.

Nah, that just happens because in their minds, there IS NO WAY IN HIGH HEAVEN OR HELL that they are wrong.