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[JustJoe2k5 0]

Bryan Danielson vs. Homicide is definately my dream match, and should easily be a Match of the Year candidate. I wonder if RoH will bring in someone new to lead The Prophecy or have Dan Maff step up and just add another smaller member.

[Guest Man Of 1,004 Modes]

What EXACTLY makes Homicide vs. Bryan Danielson a dream match?

[Guest Doyo]

If Silken refused to sign a document that would hold him financially responsible if Feinstein was still around, then I would agree that would all but confirm that Feinstein is still around. However, that is NOT what they were asked to sign.

 

According to TNA, that was the exact issue. Meltzer's current info could have come

from talking on the phone to Gabe for all we know. Doug is just an employee and they

can call him Grand Puba if they want, but doesn't really make him in charge. Doug

may have signed it and then TNA's legal department probably told them that they need

someone with ownership to sign it. I don't see what TNA's big worry is. Wrestlers

are just employees and nobody is going to hold them responsible for their employer's actions.

 

Also, Silken is the majority owner and has been since before Feinstein left

 

And where exactly did Feinstein go? Is he working at Walmart or McDonalds? This was

his career, his dream job, HIS LIFE. He was already depressed enough from being

exposed on television. Why would he then throw away what was most important

to him and what also allows him to drive a Lexus? He would only give it up for a

huge sum of money and he would have sold his share to the highest bidder.

Somehow we are to believe that the highest bidder turned out to be Rob's friends

and/or business partners and that they and RF are not in contact anymore?

 

As far as Silken, he is supposedly a convicted ticket scalper and drug dealer.

 

When is RF Video going to change their name like Gabe said they would? Of course

Gabe has also said that he "is not privy to all the business info." Then why do they

use him as spokesperson so often? You can't trust any statement they make. I

could hardly care if people want to spend money on them, but I don't understand

how people can overlook the obvious that Feinstein is still involved.

[Guest Jay Z. Hollywood]

When is RF Video going to change their name like Gabe said they would?

They changed their mind a short while ago when once video sales returned to normal. The RFVideo name is staying.

 

OSIcon can rationalize and defend the actions of the ROH crew all he wants, and he does have well-thought out arguments, but to me and the other skeptics, there's still no sale on this end.

 

XPW never got a dime from me ever, because of their ownership. ROH hasn't gotten a dime from me since September, and it'll stay that way because of the absolutely atrocious way they've handled this situation. And it's no fault that they lost my business and the business of other like-minded people except their own. There are plenty of other great indys that are worthy of my support, where the same wrestlers work.

Edited April 10, 2004 by Jay Z. Hollywood

[Guest TDinDC1112]

Who is Bob Magee and why is he leading the battle cry like no others on the ROH board against TNA? I mean, if you want to email TNA, fine, but doesn't it make ROH seem pretty bush to start emailing Fox? ROH didn't like it when people f'ed with their venues in Massachusetts, so why are they doing this?

[Guest OSIcon]

According to TNA, that was the exact issue. Meltzer's current info could have come

from talking on the phone to Gabe for all we know.

 

My fault. I didn't get the memo telling me that concerning this issue, I should ignore Meltzer's take on the situation (despite being the most reliable source for wrestling news) and trust everything TNA says.

 

I was also unaware that TNA's statement, which looked like this.....

 

"Unfortunately, ROH and TNA officials have reached an impasse in negotiations. TNA talent has been pulled from upcoming ROH shows. Communication will remain open between TNA and ROH and hopefully this issue can be resolved down the line."

 

....translated into: "They wouldn't sign to say Feinstein is gone." Nice to see that you somehow interpreted it that way to fit your own wants, but nowhere does TNA say that is the exact issue. So what you are doing is ignoring what the news sites are saying and instead, going on your own interpretation which you are trying to say is based off TNA's reaction even though that isn't really the case. That is like people watching the evening news and disregarding their new information because it doesn't fit with what "they think" really happened. It has nothing to do with "taking sides" and everything to do with ignoring the "facts" we are presented just because they don't fit with what you want to believe.

 

Doug is just an employee and they

can call him Grand Puba if they want, but doesn't really make him in charge. Doug

may have signed it and then TNA's legal department probably told them that they need

someone with ownership to sign it. I don't see what TNA's big worry is. Wrestlers

are just employees and nobody is going to hold them responsible for their employer's actions.

 

Wow....so much speculation. Yea, you are probably right with all your "but" and "probably" speculative statements while Meltzer, PWInsider, ect. who research these things are completely wrong. Look, I can do the same thing you did:

 

"Doug is legally the CEO of the company and is in charge. He signed an intial document, as did Silken, and TNA's legal department probably told them that they now had to sign a document giving TNA the right to all of their personal wealth if TNA experiences any trouble that could be linked to an association with ROH, even if Feinstein is actually gone."

 

See, anyone can speculate. I don't believe that is what happened because I don't know. It isn't any more valid then what you wrote because none of us have any clue. And the people that due have a clue (Meltzer), you dismiss. Nice.

 

 

I'll skip the part about "Where did Feinstein go?" because I am tired of writing about that and it isn't relevant here since I am just debating what exactly it was that Silken was asked to sign and if it was asking too much. Again though, it is more speculative stuff on your part based in very little fact.

 

OSIcon can rationalize and defend the actions of the ROH crew all he wants, and he does have well-thought out arguments, but to me and the other skeptics, there's still no sale on this end.

 

It's less rationalizing and defedning, then it is looking at the facts that are presented. Whether you want to believe it or not, I have taken everything in this story at face value. When I heard they didn't sign something, I thought: "Oh shit. If they didn't sign saying Feinstein is gone then he must still be there. I am done with ROH then." Of course, then I read ALL the latest information avaliable which showed that isn't quote the case and that the document TNA asked Silken to signed is unreasonable in that ROH can be held responsible for TNA's financial woes even if Feinstein is gone. Again, this is all going on what Meltzer reports, but since that is all we know from this so far, I have to go based on that rather then my own (or others) speculation.

 

For all the talk about ROH fans following ROH no matter what, I see a TON of people who ignore facts and rely on their on speculation (Doyo is a good example) just so that they can continue to say that ROH is 100 percent in the wrong.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

What EXACTLY makes Homicide vs. Bryan Danielson a dream match?

Probably the fact that it should smoke every other match on that card.......

[JustJoe2k5 0]

What EXACTLY makes Homicide vs. Bryan Danielson a dream match?

It is MY dream match, so if it doesn't appeal to you don't worry about it. I know what I expect out of the match, and that is some hard-hitting action and that is what I like.

[Guest DonWestMark03]

Hi,

 

I just found an interesting post on the CZWFans.com board that seems to make a lot of sense to me:

 

http://www.czwfans.com/board/viewtopic.php...er=asc&start=50

 

There's an interesting "timeline" piece about this story up on 1wrestling. One of the things that stood out to me:

 

 

 

The 1wrestling.com story wrote:

 

Sapolsky reveals that, despite paperwork provided to TNA showing Doug Gentry as owner of 100% of the stock in Ring of Honor, the company has a "silent investor" who actually owns a substantial interest in the company and that Gentry was just the owner "on paper".

 

 

So when Gabe swore up and down all over the internet that the stock transfer made Doug the "100% Owner" of ROH, he now ADMITS that he was lying to all of us?

 

Again, if Gabe was willing to publically (and repeatedly) lie in order to keep Cary Silkin's involvement in ROH (a fact that nobody would really give a damn about) a secret, then does anybody out there actually think he wouldn't do the same to keep Rob Feinstein's involvement in ROH (a fact that would kill the company if true) a secret?

 

Again, I personally don't think that RF is still involved at the moment (although I do think that the "He's paid for his mistakes, people deserve a second chance" angle is possible down the line), at this point all I know is that I wouldn't believe ANYTHING that Gabe or ROH says publically on the matter, since Gabe has REPEATEDLY LIED throughout this story over, and over, and over, and over again.

 

NJJ

 

-The "Wrestling Press" always loved to point ot the blatant lies of McMahon, Russo, etc., so when are we going to hear the sarcastic, mocking piece about Gabe's "credibility" from Meltzer, Keller, Mitchell, or any other wrestling "journalist", now that we have countless well-documented, blatant lies on the record from Gabe? I won't hold my breath.

 

2nd post from this guy:

 

  a party invests X amount of dollars, and in return gets Y% of the profits of ROH, then they are an "Owner". Gabe can call it a "partner", "Investor", "Stockholder", etc., but the fact is, Gabe said about a million times that the stock transfer documentation was supposed to prove to all of us that Doug was the "100%" owner of ROH and the Still Named After A Pedophile video company.

 

Now, we're hearing about other people who are "investors", and whose signatures are make-or-break regarding business decisions.

 

The ownership of the company has gone from "It's 100% Doug", to "Well, it's 100% Doug...and this Cary Silkin person...and maybe another couple of investors...", so how long before this Investor/shareholder/partner/owner stable expands further to include You Know Who?

 

 

 

NJJ

 

-Earth to Gabe: STOP LYING!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Doyo]

I was also unaware that TNA's statement, which looked like this.....

 

...

Nice to see that you somehow interpreted it that way to fit your own wants, but nowhere does TNA say that is the exact issue. So what you are doing is ignoring what the news sites are saying

That is you, not me.

 

http://www.pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.asp?id=1779&p=1

"NWA:TNA's decision to pull all of their contracted talent from upcoming dates with Ring of Honor was made after ROH's investor Cary Silkon was advised by his attorney not to sign a document that would hold him personally financially responsible for any possible damages incurred to NWA:TNA if Rob Feinstein was found to remain owner of ROH."

 

and

 

"We very much wanted to resolve the issue in an amicable fashion and made what we believed to be a very fair and reasonable suggestion as to how to get past the concerns we had regarding ROH ownership. We remain open to discussing the matter with the appropriate ROH officials and hope they will be able to take the steps we requested to resolve the dispute quickly.

 

Bob Ryder

TNA Entertainment"

[The Ghost of bps21 0]

Here's what he was asked to sign:

 

http://www.1wrestling.com/news/newsline.asp?news=18150

[JoeDirt 0]

Gabe just posted on the ROH board:

 

Hey everyone,

I understand everyone's need to vent. This board has become almost impossible to moniter and a lot of stuff has gotten through that normally wouldn't. We are still going to give you people a little more time to say what you need to get off your chests before we just start deleting everything, but the time is coming to focus once again on the product and upcoming shows. There are a couple of good threads already going like the one about stripping AJ Styles of the belt and the one about the future of The Prophecy.

 

I know that this sounds like a company line, but I am very excited about all the upcoming shows. If we can't blow people away and have incredible storylines and matches with the talent still with ROH than we don't belong running shows.

 

This whole situation has given us some very unique booking opportunites to start some innovative stories that can really breath some fresh air into ROH. I suggest paying close attention to the Newswire and items on the main page because we are going to start some stuff there. I really wish we were running Philly tonight so we could blow the roof off the place with some of the ideas floating around.

 

As far as commenting on the document thing, I'm not going to say anything now except that not signing it for me and Cary wasn't an issue of Rob Feinstein, but rather an issue of personal liability. If you know anything about business or speak to a lawyer, they will tell you its insane to sign something vague that makes you personally liable. The Jarretts told me they just wanted a document signed so they could tell the cable companies that they have a document stating that ROH assures them that Rob is no longer with the company. They have the president and owner's signiture on that document. They can tell the cable companies that the ROH president and owner has signed a document assuring them that Rob is not involved. Doug had his back against the wall and signed it despite the advice of everyone around him. TNA should be happy with that. I could go into more details at this time, but I won't. The only reason I posted this is because of the very one sided bullet points that Bob Ryder put up on his site today. I was also quoted in those bullet points that Doug is the owner "on paper." I never said that.

 

We will have lots of news coming soon as we focus on the upcoming shows. Things are going to be very chaotic, very interesting, very original and very fresh in ROH.

 

ROH has always been about giving the top, hungry, upcoming talent a chance to showcase themselves. We have never been about letting the "stars" grab the spotlight. That is why Low Ki vs. American Dragon vs. Christopher Daniels headlined our first show when 99% of the other promotions out there would have headlined with Eddy Guerrero vs. Super Crazy.

 

2-3 years ago there was a class coming up that was absolutely incredible. It included guys like Ki, Dragon, Daniels, Samoa Joe, Doug Williams, Spanky, Paul London, AJ Styles, Homicide and others. One of the reasons we decided to start ROH was to feature that incredible class. Those guys have since gone on to achieve success whether it is being an international star or a wwe contract or becoming a top flight indy star.

 

There is now a new class that reminds me exactly of that first class. We are now going to give these guys a chance to shine while still promoting ROH stars like Samoa Joe, Homicide, Bryan Danielson, Second City Saints and others. We are going to have a great mix with lots of fresh match ups and lots of interesting scenerios. I can't wait to get started. On a closing note just take a look at some of the facts below:

 

-Steve Corino & Spanky are forced to cancel their appearances on 9/21/02 and the result is Paul London vs. Michael Shane ladder match.

 

-Spanky is forced to cancel his 11/9/02 booking and we get Low Ki working Tanaka and Ohtani.

 

-Paul London misses 3/15 where he was supposed to win the tag titles with AJ Styles. Instead we get the Styles & Red vs. Briscoes series and the London vs. Styles match on 6/14.

 

-Low Ki cancels his 4/12 booking a week before the show and we get "The Epic Encounter" with London vs. Danielson.

 

-AJ Styles injures his knee and cancels his 4/26 booking. So instead of AJ & Red vs. Hotstuff Herndandez (what was I thinking?) & Paul London, we get Round Robin Challenge II.

 

-Everyone says the 5/31 "Do Or Die" lineup is weak and instead we get one of the best building shows in ROH history, an incredible world title match and the emergence of CM Punk as a star.

 

-Several injuries on 9/6 give us an opportunity to put on a show stealing Homicide vs. Trent Acid match.

 

Obviously I am still hopeful the TNA talent will return since AJ is not being stripped of the Pure Wrestling Title, but in the meantime we will make some lemonade and blow away Chicago & St. Paul as we head into Round Robin Challenge III in Boston and a night I can't wait for "Generation Next" in Philadelphia. Lets start looking forward people!!!

[Guest Doyo]

not signing it for me and Cary wasn't an issue of Rob Feinstein, but rather an issue of personal liability.

 

OK Gabe, thanks for confirming all the reports about there being an owner named Cary.

Even though 1wrestling.com said that he requested for his name not to be

given out, it was nice of you to let us know that it is indeed the person who has been mentioned.

 

If you know anything about business or speak to a lawyer, they will tell you its insane to sign something vague that makes you personally liable.

 

The document makes it clear that the only way anyone will be held liable is if Feinstein

is still involved.

 

They have the president and owner's signiture on that document. They can tell the cable companies that the ROH president and owner has signed a document assuring them that Rob is not involved.

 

Wait a minute Gabe, who is this Cary you spoke of, the ROH janitor?

 

Gabe, you are a good booker. Why don't you stick to booking, and stop making statements

and doing interviews in which you make your company look bad?

[JustJoe2k5 0]

I've noticed something about Rob Feinstein the few times I've seen him on RoH videos. If it isn't a segment involving Special K, he is totally uninterested, even when shilling upcoming events for his own promotion. It is pretty pathetic that someone like that who happened to have his name as owner, has dragged RoH down because of his idiotic actions.