What is the best full shows....

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

I was sitting down last night to watch the AJPW 7/25/95 commericial release that I just ordered and I was thinking. What are the best Japanese events of all time. List either your favorite overall show, or all the best ones from every promotion. Discuss.......

[Guest RickyChosyu]

I just re-watched All Japan Women's Midsummer Typhoon a few weeks back, and it holds up as one of the most enjoybale cards I've ever watched, with a fun midcard six women tag, a great Aja/Bull vs. Hokuto/Yamada tag, and a twenty minute sprint between Yamada and Toyota.

 

Big Egg Universe should qualify too, if only for the second half. It's pretty hard to argue with Aja/Toyota, Kansai/Kyoko, Aja/Kansai, Aja/Hokuto, and the M-Pro six man, especially when they all deliver.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

and the M-Pro six man, especially when they all deliver.

Your not talking about the Michinoku Pro Trios Tag League 2003 are you?

[Guest JPF]

and the M-Pro six man, especially when they all deliver.

Your not talking about the Michinoku Pro Trios Tag League 2003 are you?

No. He's talking about the 6-man MPro match on the AJW Big Egg Universe Card.

 

A Lot of the Zenjo shows during the 92-94 era would qualify for best (top to bottom) card ever.

[Guest Black Tiger]

4/16/94 Super J-Cup is a god candidate, if you're looking for full shows, also the 1/4/96 and 1/4/00 Tokyo Dome shows, (1/4/00 has two REALLY bad matches, but the good far outweighs it)

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

4/16/94 Super J-Cup is a god candidate, if you're looking for full shows, also the 1/4/96 and 1/4/00 Tokyo Dome shows, (1/4/00 has two REALLY bad matches, but the good far outweighs it)

Thanks a lot for the suggestions, I've been thinking of getting some of the Tokyo Dome shows so now I think those are the two I am going to get........

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

At least with the 1/4/00 show Savage/Steiner is so terrible that it's almost funny.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

At least with the 1/4/00 show Savage/Steiner is so terrible that it's almost funny.

I just ordered it......I can't wait to laugh my ass off.

[Guest Black Tiger]

I got one more for you DK, New Japan's 8/29/02 Cross Road show, its almost fully dedicated to the juniors except for a Kensuke Sasaki match and a NWF Title Tournament match.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

I got one more for you DK, New Japan's 8/29/02 Cross Road show, its almost fully dedicated to the juniors except for a Kensuke Sasaki match and a NWF Title Tournament match.

BT, I just picked up the two Tokyo Dome shows and I think I might check out the Cross Road show when I get paid.........

[Guest Contentious C]

BT is out of his mind; Cross Road has a whopping one good match on it.

[Guest Coffey]

I still don't get the love for Super J Cup '94. I bought it because of so many people praising it. People calling the Sasuki/Benoit match 5-stars and saying it's the best full card ever and whatnot.

 

I'd say Benoit/Sasuki was closer to 3 1/2. The show had a lot of botched spots too. I actually like '95 better!

[Guest Contentious C]

Hmmm...a bunch of guys working together that hadn't worked together before...I wonder why there might be some blown spots...

[Guest RickyChosyu]

'94 has Liger/Sasuke and Benoit/Sasuke, and while I think they've both been overrated to a certain extent, they're both very good matches with Benoit/Sasuke especially being one of the better juniors matches I've seen and superior to anything on the '95 card. There's also some solid-good matches in Samurai/Sasuke, Benoit/Gedoh, Benoit/Guererro, Ohtani/Delfin, and Liger/Hayabusa.

 

The '94 and '95 J-Cups, along with the '96 J*Crown, are probably best served as introductions to Junior Puroresu, as they introduce most of the leading cast from NJ, WAR, and M Pro with plenty of solid-good matches along with a few very good-great ones.

[Guest Salacious Crumb]

New Japan's Junior Tag League 94 was pretty solid from top to bottom. Great Sasuke/Black Tiger vs. Wild Pegasus/Shinjiro Ohtani on the card twice and even the weaker matches were still fairly solid.

[Guest Black Tiger]

BT is out of his mind; Cross Road has a whopping one good match on it.

One good match?

 

Off the top of my head I can think of three of them.

 

Hashi vs Kanemoto (***1/2)

Lyger/Tanaka vs Kikuchi/Kanemaru (****1/2)

Naruse vs Murahama (***3/4)

 

Then stuff that wasn't as technically "good" but still fun like Gedo/Jado vs Curry Man/Hidaka and the Nakamura debut vs Yasuda, and a lot of people enjoyed Takayama vs Fujita, although I personally didn't think it was that great.

[Guest Shuriken]

I'll second the love for Cross Roads. BT might be over-rating the matches a little but they were still good (IWGP Jr Tag title match is a high 2002 MOTYC). The rest of the card was far from bad, other than the depressing Minoru Fujita squash and the Giant/Giant match. The undercard Jr tag matches are a whole lot of fun (even if pretty basic) and Takayama/Fujita is a fine shit-kicking.

[Guest Contentious C]

Naruse/Murahama couldn't make up its mind what it was. Murahama's U-STYLE debut was better, and it wasn't even 'good.' Try watching some UWF-i and then you'll know what "good matwork" is.

 

Kanemoto/Hashi was literally all Hashi, and we all know what a nut you are for Kanemoto, so let's just put that one to bed before you hurt yourself.

 

The IWGP Jr. Tag Title switch was pretty decent, but there must be 150+ tag matches since 1990 that are better and easily found on tape. Your rating is just absurd; do you go up to six stars? Suggesting it's on par with stuff from the Misawa/Kobashi vs. Kawada/Taue series is crazy talk. It's nowhere close, and the fact that it's thought of as a "2002 MOTYC" says far more about how bad '02 was and far less about how good the match was.

 

Remember, kids - "hold your standards higher than those on 411." Words to live by.

[Guest Black Tiger]

Naruse/Murahama couldn't make up its mind what it was.  Murahama's U-STYLE debut was better, and it wasn't even 'good.'  Try watching some UWF-i and then you'll know what "good matwork" is.

 

I don't seem to recall using the phrase "good matwork"

 

Kanemoto/Hashi was literally all Hashi, and we all know what a nut you are for Kanemoto, so let's just put that one to bed before you hurt yourself.

 

Except for that part about Kanemoto getting himself huge over as a heel with the whole punk routine, and getting NJPW behind Hashi enough that they were thinking the NOAH scrub could beat the IWGP Jr. Champion

 

The IWGP Jr. Tag Title switch was pretty decent, but there must be 150+ tag matches since 1990 that are better and easily found on tape.  Your rating is just absurd; do you go up to six stars?  Suggesting it's on par with stuff from the Misawa/Kobashi vs. Kawada/Taue series is crazy talk.  It's nowhere close, and the fact that it's thought of as a "2002 MOTYC" says far more about how bad '02 was and far less about how good the match was.

 

No I rate up to five stars

 

First off, its a different dynamic, mentallity, and style than the Misawa/Kobashi vs Kawada/Taue series. That's like saying Flair vs Steamboat is on par with Lyger vs Sano, because even though they're both highly regarded, they're two complete diferent styles.

 

Well since you decided to speak up about how bad '02 was, let's here your suggestions on MOTY candidates and suggestions for full shows.

[Guest Contentious C]

I don't seem to recall using the phrase "good matwork"

No - you couldn't even be bothered to be that descriptive. You just tossed snowflakes around as though you were sharing a dandruff problem with the world. Usually not a good idea to get pedantic with someone when you haven't exactly set a good tone in the first place.

 

Except for that part about Kanemoto getting himself huge over as a heel with the whole punk routine

Translation into non-Campbell-ese: Koji no-sells for some guy and kicks him a bunch.

 

and getting NJPW behind Hashi enough that they were thinking the NOAH scrub could beat the IWGP Jr. Champion

I've seen Hashi draw the same kind of heat with KENTA and Marufuji, minus the no-selling.

 

No I rate up to five stars

The old Meltzer "+++" system, then?

 

First off, its a different dynamic, mentallity, and style than the Misawa/Kobashi vs Kawada/Taue series.

I can only assume you're attempting to say, "you can't look at it the same way." By that, I can only think that 'looking at it differently' means 'lowering your expectations because the field around it is terrible.'

 

That's like saying Flair vs Steamboat is on par with Lyger vs Sano, because even though they're both highly regarded,

This might be the only on-the-level thing you've said so far, and you don't even realize it. 3 matches in a feud that's worshipped as the best of its kind, even though it isn't, one of which is an oft-overrated "best ______ match ever", a rematch 5 years later that was a joke...yeah, sounds about right.

 

Well since you decided to speak up about how bad '02 was, let's here your suggestions on MOTY candidates and suggestions for full shows.

When you give me something to work with that deserves it, I will. I'm not holding my breath.

[Guest Black Tiger]

You remember the point of the thread, yes?

 

Yes I do, so intead of taking the thread even further off discourse, why don't you suggest some shows for Dynamite to check out? So far you've added nothing to this thread other than a few disparaging remarks.

[Guest Contentious C]

Which is certainly better for Dynamite than to recommend he watch crappy wrestling.

[Guest Black Tiger]

Well then make a worthwhile contribution. I'm interested to see what you recommend since so far all you've done is insist that Cross Road isn't good enough. I'm sure Dynamite would be interested as well.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Tom I am NOT flaiming you by this post and I don't want you to take it the wrong way. I have spoken with BT several times on here and I actually think that he has good taste for wrestling and I generally like his choices. This is not to say that I wouldn't want to hear you recommendations as well. You both have gotten your point across and I feel that this argument should be ended as it is getting the thread WAY off topic......but that's ok. Let's get back on track here.....lets hear some of your choices Tom.

[Guest Ray]

I'd say Benoit/Sasuki was closer to 3 1/2.

Why do you give it such a low rating?

[Michrome 0]

You're not going to get any rational answer. Likely possibilities:

 

A) It was boring

B) I just didn't like it that much

C) The finish sucked

[Guest momoracci]

It's low in relation to Benoit/Sasuke but it's certainly not a 'low rating' generally speaking - I'd love to see a legitimate ***1/2 match these days. Hell, at this point, I'll buy a show from a decade ago if I think it has a shot of having at least one or two 'very good' matches on there...

[Coffin Surfer 0]

"I'll buy a show from a decade ago if I think it has a shot of having at least one or two 'very good' matches on there... "

 

Uh, a decade ago is when most of the best matches did happen.

 

93-94.

 

So yeah, that's where you'll find "very good" to legit classics at. And what's wrong with buying shows from a decade ago, when that's when the best matches happened? You don't think the present is the peak of wrestling quality?

 

"That's like saying Flair vs Steamboat is on par with Lyger vs Sano, because even though they're both highly regarded, they're two complete diferent styles."

 

Not different styles as much as one is just better than the other. But as far as the 80s go, Santo/Casas 2/3 falls and Jumbo/Tenytru 6/89 kills them both.

[Guest momoracci]

"Uh, a decade ago is when most of the best matches did happen."

 

I know that as well as you do, Dan. It's just that I've seen almost every classic match there is and right now I'm scrounging for all of the mid-range stuff I can find.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Ah, Dan - momo = wolverine. Don't immediately work stiff with everyone just because you aren't sure you've worked them before.