Guest Hot Ticket Report post Posted May 12, 2004 I was watchin this on the news and I was just thinking "who the fuck was stupid enough to pull this off?" I honestly havent caught up on it and I was hopin I could ask some questions to you guys about it and just maybe have a nice little coffee discussion. Who exactly let this happen? Who the hell is dumb enough to do this? You dont give the other side a REASON to be violent as fuck like theyve proven they can be. What's being done? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Firestarter 0 Report post Posted May 12, 2004 Who cares? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cerebus Report post Posted May 12, 2004 Who exactly let this happen? The Brigade commander (and I use that term VERY loosely) of the 800th MP Brigade (the brigade which the 372nd MP Company, who were the clowns who did this, was part of) BG Janis Karpinski ran what is probably the most incompetant commands of the American Iraq deployment (it's certainly the worst I've ever heard of period). By all acounts, she didn't enforce any semblence of discipline, she sort-of-kind-of turned over command of Abu Grahib to the commander of the 205th MI (Military Intelligence) Brigade but not really because her FRAGO was so confusing and incomplete that nobody knew who controlled what, she made no effort to give her troops adequate training or follow basic SOPs (let alone creating any generic to the 800th), and generally being an incredibly incompetant officer. Never have I heard of a CoC (Chain of Command) that was more bizzare, convuluted, and confusing than what Taguba unvealed at Abu Ghraib. Simply disgusting. Those below her are hardly better, but she is the one who is, justifiably, taking most of the heat. Who the hell is dumb enough to do this? You dont give the other side a REASON to be violent as fuck like theyve proven they can be. Even if this was an interrogation, it was an interrogation done compeltely wrong. Though the specific copy of FM 34-52 that is available to the public is 7 years out of date, I can personally testify that this was done WAY out of regulation, like on a different planet out there. First of all, MPs are never part of interrogations. If they are, they're ancillary parts of it at most. Second, the pictures you see where taken by PRIVATE CAMERAS. That means the MPs were using THEIR OWN cameras to tape their little BUTT party...I don't even know where to BEGIN to tell you how way over the line that is. Third, there were civillians in charge of interrogation. CIVILLIANS. And not ones from an intelligence community, BUT FROM A FUCKING PRIVATE COMPANY!!! I could go on but I'm already seething at the complete idiocy of this and you probably get the idea. What's being done? Right now several careers (incuding Karpinski) are pretty much ruined and 7 soldiers are facing court-martial, one has alreadystarted, Rumsfeld was grilled, and Taguba has testified in front of Congress yesterday (I strongly encourage you to check out that story btw). There are several other investigations I don't feel like looking up but this is being fully investigated on many different levels. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted May 12, 2004 What I find mind-boggling is that the Englund woman (I don't honestly care how the last name is spelled, should my attempt be wrong) was only there --- to VISIT HER BOYFRIEND. Jesus, this isn't a part time job after school --- it is an EXCEPTIONALLY dangerous prison and people are just walking in and "hanging out". Karpinski is an inept leader. We should punish her and others because they broke OUR rules --- not because they violated the "rights" of terrorists and assorted scum. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Cerebus Report post Posted May 12, 2004 What I find mind-boggling is that the Englund woman (I don't honestly care how the last name is spelled, should my attempt be wrong) was only there --- to VISIT HER BOYFRIEND. Jesus, this isn't a part time job after school --- it is an EXCEPTIONALLY dangerous prison and people are just walking in and "hanging out". Karpinski is an inept leader. We should punish her and others because they broke OUR rules --- not because they violated the "rights" of terrorists and assorted scum. -=Mike How about that little ol' thing called the Uniform Code of Military Justice? That mean a damn? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted May 12, 2004 What I find mind-boggling is that the Englund woman (I don't honestly care how the last name is spelled, should my attempt be wrong) was only there --- to VISIT HER BOYFRIEND. Jesus, this isn't a part time job after school --- it is an EXCEPTIONALLY dangerous prison and people are just walking in and "hanging out". Karpinski is an inept leader. We should punish her and others because they broke OUR rules --- not because they violated the "rights" of terrorists and assorted scum. -=Mike How about that little ol' thing called the Uniform Code of Military Justice? That mean a damn? Our soldiers violated our laws. They should be punished. I don't see how anybody ABOVE Karpinski can be blamed (they have to assume that their subordinate has some semblance of competence) --- but if she isn't court martialed and dishonorably discharged, there will be a problem. -=Mike ...However, I still don't care that they did it to thugs and rapists Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest hunger4unger Report post Posted May 12, 2004 They weren't ALL thugs and rapists! Some were people merely detained on suspicion at check points...some were in there for stealing stuff, IE bread and fish. None of them had been found guilty of anything in a court of law..they were SUSPECTS. Of course, there will be murderers, thugs and rapists amongst them..but i'm not letting you justify the horrible, horrible physical and sexual abuse the troops carried out by claiming that they were all thugs and rapists. Rumsfeld's head should roll over this - the US government were informed of such abuses MONTHS ago and did nothing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Spicy McHaggis 0 Report post Posted May 12, 2004 Rumsfeld's head should roll over this - the US government were informed of such abuses MONTHS ago and did nothing. Wrong. Unless you don't consider military investigations part of the gov't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cobainwasmurdered Report post Posted May 12, 2004 The Jail abuse was a bad thing. I honestly think so. I think it's wrong to treat Prisioners like that, escpecially if they haven't been tried and convicted yet. I realize this to some people sounds like I'm sympathizing with the terrorists, etc. but I'm not. I have no respect for people who callously take the lives of others for something like that. I also have no respect for people who beat/abuse prisioners. These guys are locked up in a prision, they aren't going to do shit while they're there. If they got roughed up a bit when being apprehended I'd have less of a problem with it honestly. War is a terrible terrible thing and many awful things happen in it and I understand that so I know that things like this will happen because emotions are running so high. I think that the actions of the terrorists are much worse than anything that the American soldiers may or may not have done. I think the people responsible for harming Civilians and Soldiers should be executed. However, I'm against mass exterminating a race as has been suggested by some. A good percantage of the Iraqi people are terrorists or terrorist supporters but there are many people who don't support them. I recall everyone harping on how happy the Iraqi people were to have the US there when others questioned America's motavation for the war. Many people still want America there. I know some don't care if the US's actions will make people hate them but it's not about that. Listen to yourselves. You call their culture and ways of life worthless. You want to exterminate them all. Doesn't that sound just a little like the terrorists themselves? Hate your enemy but never become them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted May 12, 2004 They weren't ALL thugs and rapists! They weren't in there for jaywalking, hate to break it to you. Seriously, stop watching Al-Jazeera for a moment and enter the real world. Some were people merely detained on suspicion at check points...some were in there for stealing stuff, IE bread and fish. Wow, you DO buy everything the Arab media tells you, don't ya? None of them had been found guilty of anything in a court of law..they were SUSPECTS. Wow, way to stretch a point --- considering that since there is no gov't there --- there are no courts. Why don't we just go ahead and try Saddam tomorrow? It's not like we don't have all of the evidence in the world. Of course, there will be murderers, thugs and rapists amongst them..but i'm not letting you justify the horrible, horrible physical and sexual abuse the troops carried out by claiming that they were all thugs and rapists. You're the guy who thinks the gov't kept Berg there (they didn't, BTW) so he could be executed by Al Qaeda and gain sympathy from Americans. What you believe and feel is immaterial. Rumsfeld's head should roll over this - the US government were informed of such abuses MONTHS ago and did nothing. Except began their investigation. -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
