Raw from JHawk's Beak

[Guest Goodear]

The shows should revolve around the stars and Triple H is the biggest one they have. Beating him actually means something unlike just about everyone else on the roster other than Shawn and Benoit (whose largest problem is his history at this point... they're basically giving him a god push where he hasn't lost in months now). The point is not to have the show stop revolving around Triple H but to have it revolve around other feuds as well and that is actually happening with the Orton-Shelton feud and the Jericho-Christian & Co. marathon. Why destroy a draw? Make more of them! Trust me, I want Kane-Benoit to pick it up some notches next week as much as anyone else but just ignoring Triple H entirely won't help that. Those should be independent factors.

 

Shawn hasn't 'sunk' anyone, but has he ever let someone put something over on him as many times as he has HHH?

 

No because he has been mostly facing Triple H. Other people have gotten wins off him though and his two feuds with Orton and Jericho were somewhat even forma a win-loss perspective.

 

But HHH winning the belt back, when it happens, will bring all of the good will to a halt immediately. Some people are trying to pretend that's not going to happen because things are going well right now, but a true sign of change would have HHH in the upper midcard in a match that isn't as hyped as other matches.

 

Lets say Benoit jobs the strap back to Triple H and then Triple H jobs it to Jericho... thats a screeching halt? Triple H is the best heel in the company from every stand point and is the one best served to put new face champions over. Is there another heel you feel is ready to take that step, because I sure don't see them. All the major breakout stars are on the face side, and Hunter would be the best tool to get Edge, Jericho and whoever else over to that point.

[KingPK 0]

 

*Sulks into the corner and weeps softly*

 

Ok, I'm better now.

 

I'm going to have to side with Goodear here (omg, mod disagreement~!). HHH has improved over the last few months, both in ring and in the promo department (he doesn't take the mic every single week and drone on about the same thing over and over. "I am the Game, I'm the best, blah blah blah). Sure, THIS week had the focus on HBK/HHH, but next week they could put more of a focus on Benoit/Kane, or Benjamin/Orton, or Eugene, or something else.

 

But I do really hope that HIAC is the final chapter in that feud. Yeah, Shawn's resilient, but you'd think getting his ass kicked that many times would tell him something.

[iggymcfly 0]

Shawn hasn't actually been pinned by HHH since Armageddon 2002; he doesn't have a reason to give up yet. I'm sure the HIAC will give a decisive winner and mark the end of the feud.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Might as well post the WWE's version of HBK vs. HHH...

(from Badblood website)

 

Shawn Michaels vs. Triple H

Shawn Michaels and Triple H were once the best of friends. As members of the rebel faction D-Generation X, HBK and The Game ruled WWE. Then, injury stole Michaels from the sports entertainment business. With HBK sidelined for the better part of four years, Triple H set out to make a name for himself on his own. En route to becoming a main eventer, Triple H destroyed Michaels' character at any chance he could, thinking he would never have to deal with HBK again.

 

Then in 2002, Michaels miraculously returned to WWE. His first target - Triple H. The rest has been history. In fact, it may even be history's greatest rivalry, as these two RAW Superstars have not only competed nearly every type of match imaginable, they have even traded World Heavyweight Championship victories.

 

Now on June 13, live on pay-per-view, Shawn Michaels and Triple H look to settle their score once and for all in the most unforgiving match imaginable, the Hell in a Cell Match.

[Hektik 0]

If you think thats bad, check out this article from WWE.com

 

Triple H vs. Shawn Michaels—The Saga Continues

by Brian Solomon

 

San Diego, Calif, -- May 18, 2004 -- It’s become one of sports entertainment’s classic rivalries. For the past eight years, Triple H and Shawn Michaels have alternated from being the best of friends to the worst of enemies on multiple occasions. There’s been something about this amazing clash of Superstars that has captured the imaginations of WWE fans like nothing else since perhaps the days of Hulk Hogan vs. Andre the Giant in the late 1980s. And now on the RAW brand, fans have the privilege of watching the latest chapter in this epic war.

 

“I think it’s one of those rivalries that has so much history to it,” Michaels said backstage at RAW. “Fans know that it’s all based on something that’s very solid. We were two guys that were very close, traveled around the world together, we were friends and had a falling out. It’s something that’s been going on for years. So when you have a great history, a history both in and out of the WWE ring, and then you put classic matches on top of that—because we deliver from a performance standpoint. We both strive to outdo each other. We bring out the best in each other because we’re both trying to be better than each other. We’re trying to be the best, and when you do that, the final result is usually a really great product. And the fans are always the ones who benefit from that.”

 

In 1996, Triple H and Shawn Michaels were part of a backstage brotherhood that came to be known as “The Kliq.” The following year, that brotherhood was translated to the TV screen as D-Generation X. But after an injury in 1998 sent Michaels into a four-year hiatus, it was Triple H who took the forefront, after he lambasted his former partner for deserting DX.

 

The Shawn Michaels comeback of 2002 sent fans on a rollercoaster of emotions. First it seemed that DX would reunite, then Triple H and Shawn were at each others’ throats. They traded the World Heavyweight Championship back and forth in the fall of ’02, and HBK continued to be a thorn in Triple H’s side after the formation of Evolution. They have engaged in matches that can only be described as classics, including encounters at SummerSlam ’02 and the 2002 Survivor Series. For some, it hearkens back to some of the sport’s most revered feuds.

 

Much like Triple H and Shawn, the Hulkster and the Giant were longtime friends whose battles lit up the wrestling business once they had their famous falling out in March 1987. The resulting war lasted nearly two years.

 

"The only thing that may differ,” says Michaels when comparing the rivalry with that of Hogan and Andre, “and this is not to be critical of anybody, but talking from a performance standpoint, I’m thinking more about mat classics - something that you put on and watch if you want to learn how to be a wrestler. I like to believe that Triple H and HBK will be something that will be like a Ric Flair/Ricky Steamboat rivalry, a Jack Brisco/Dory Funk Jr., a Harley Race/Terry Funk type of historical match up. Something you want to revisit because it will be a classic. The thing with Hunter and I is, we want to eclipse those. That’s what drives Hunter and I, going out there and trying to perform at a level that nobody else can. Whether we reach that or not, that’s for the fans to judge. But that’s certainly what we strive to do every time we go out there with each other.”

 

But can they live up to the outstanding performances they’ve put on in the past, let alone surpass them? Only time will tell.

 

“It’s a double-edged sword,” says HBK. “Part of what gets you there is getting excited about that challenge, living up to the challenge. To me, that’s what separates the good ones from the great ones, and then the great ones from that elite group, the greatest. Because we toss around the words ‘great’ and ‘legend’ so much now that it’s so desensitized. Nobody really grasps it. We call guys ‘great’ that are nowhere near great all the time.”

 

No matter how stringent the qualifications, there’s no question that Triple H and Shawn Michaels are among the all-time greats. Whether their rivalry will also be remembered as such will have to wait until it’s finally over. And that’s not something that any true WWE fan is really looking forward to anyway.

 

They're comparing Michaels/HHH to Hogan/Andre. I guess there are some similarties except for one thing, Hogan/Andre actually drew some money.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Yeah, they lost me at "captured the imaginations" - I mean, I know they did, as you have to imagine something better - but I don't think that phrase was intended that way.

 

Solomon is the worst writer they have. God that man is a fucking dolt.

[Guest wildpegasus]

Who's Benoit? You mean that guy Ross mentioned for 1 second was Edge's tag team partner? Talk about promoting your heavyweight champ!

 

Who's Kane?

 

 

 

Like I said before Benoit and Kane are being set up to fail. The end of Raw last week and the whole Raw episode this week is one of the most pathetic things I've ever seen for self promotion and burial of your opposistion at the same time. Nobody can argue against that.

[Guest Loss]

The shows should revolve around the stars and Triple H is the biggest one they have.

No matter what he does, ratings are continuing to slide every week as well. In the wake of him putting Benoit over cleanly, Backlash did a miserable buyrate. I attribute this to so much focus still being on HHH while so little is on Benoit. I know that when HHH regains the belt, there will be many arguing on here that Benoit had a chance to carry the company and failed. The truth is that Benoit is NOT being groomed for that spot and that HHH is still the guy they count on to deliver. That should be said now.

 

I think what's happening is that there is somewhat of a buzz that RAW has been on a roll lately, but the casual fan tunes in and all he sees is HHH, HHH and more HHH. We've been seeing that for five years now.

 

Beating him actually means something unlike just about everyone else on the roster other than Shawn and Benoit (whose largest problem is his history at this point... they're basically giving him a god push where he hasn't lost in months now).

 

They are. HHH, to his credit, has even sold the losses as something that bothered him. However, aside from the fact that he has the belt, is Benoit any higher on the card than HHH or HBK? No would be the answer to that, and he's the champion, and he should be the top guy. I'm not ready to say he's being treated like Jericho was or anything, because he's not, but the illusion of him being really involved is being put forth more than anything. He has two belts and he's made the top two stars on RAW tap on two consecutive PPVs. He'll probably do the same to Kane at Bad Blood. But how much TV time is he getting? And are the announcers reminding us of him constantly? Or would they rather discuss HHH and HBK?

 

The point is not to have the show stop revolving around Triple H but to have it revolve around other feuds as well and that is actually happening with the Orton-Shelton feud and the Jericho-Christian & Co. marathon.

 

This is happening to a certain extent. I was thrilled that Jericho/Christian got the main event slot on the ultra-hyped RAW. I'm glad Orton and Benjamin are feuding over the IC title, and I'm glad that they're being given TV time to get their point across. I think, in terms of card placement and elevation, RAW is better than it has been in some time. However, since HHH is not the champ, if Jericho's feud with Christian were to start drawing more heat than HHH's feud with HBK, would it jump up the card? Would it get more TV time than HHH v HBK? That's the problem with HHH -- occasionally, he'll let others become his equal, but is anyone ever allowed to surpass him?

 

Why destroy a draw?  Make more of them!

 

I'd agree, but if HHH were a draw, RAW would have average at least a 5.0 rating for all of 2002, 2003 and this year. Buyrates would be increasing constantly since he's the focus of the build to almost every PPV. Instead, business has been slipping lately, and I attribute that more to HHH being overexposed than being a bad heel.

 

Trust me, I want Kane-Benoit to pick it up some notches next week as much as anyone else but just ignoring Triple H entirely won't help that.  Those should be independent factors.

 

They should, but they're not. Kane winning the title shot was a minor issue. The camera never even went to him to show his reaction after he won the title shot and instead focused on HBK and HHH. Regardless of card placement, they're still being treated as the top stars of the show. And again, that's not a reflection on anything they're doing wrong so much as it is indicative of the need RAW has to create more stars at that level. To do that, HHH and HBK are going to have to take a back seat for a while and go into feuds that don't receive as much hype or fanfare.

 

No because he has been mostly facing Triple H.  Other people have gotten wins off him though and his two feuds with Orton and Jericho were somewhat even forma a win-loss perspective.

 

It's interesting though. By the time Jericho got a win over Michaels, everyone had forgotten about the feud and it didn't really matter. Wrestlemania was the time for that. Orton, OTOH, is an interesting case. Shawn has put him over on two PPVs and has gone over him countless times on TV. I agree with establishing a tier system, and I do think beating Michaels still means something as well, but Jericho and Orton have both put him over at times when they needed to be put over.

 

I will admit, though, that Shawn helped Jericho recover from a disastrous 2002 and get his career back on track, and he got the ball rolling for Orton. He's still being pushed harder than either guy though.

 

Lets say Benoit jobs the strap back to Triple H and then Triple H jobs it to Jericho... thats a screeching halt?

 

What that is is spinning wheels at a time when they should be moving forward. WWE fans need to stop being conditioned to expecting HHH to always win the belt back in a few months. HHH can lose the belt to Jericho, but unless when he does it, it means Jericho is now the #1 star on the RAW roster and will receive more TV time than HHH, more focus than HHH and will be discussed more than HHH, it's meaningless. Unless Benoit remains at the level he is now without the belt and his feuds are given main event treatment even after he loses the title, his current reign is meaningless. Admittedly, that could happen, but their track record on things like this isn't particularly glowing.

 

Triple H is the best heel in the company from every stand point and is the one best served to put new face champions over.  Is there another heel you feel is ready to take that step, because I sure don't see them.

 

I think if they started pushing Christian HARD now, they could have him ready in six months. Again, the problem is not that HHH is a bad heel, the problem is that the average viewer is sick of seeing him and someone else needs to assume the top heel spot, or they at least need to be working toward that. If, at any point, Orton or Christian becomes the top heel and that DOESN'T mean HHH has to turn babyface and become the top babyface, then they've accomplished something.

 

All the major breakout stars are on the face side, and Hunter would be the best tool to get Edge, Jericho and whoever else over to that point.

 

Beating HHH means more than beating anyone in WWE, with Undertaker probably being the sole exception. I totally agree. But, in the long run, as long as HHH is never demoted, he can do a million jobs and everyone is still hitting a glass ceiling, the ceiling meaning they're kept below him on the pecking order, whether they have the talent and popularity to surpass him or not.