Kurt angle: underapreciated

[Guest Brian]

"Often times he'll RANDOMLY pull out REAL wrestling moves and work them into his matches. That makes it more watchable for me. While most smarks think that the Walls of Jericho is a great submission move, i'll take his brilliant transitions into juji gatame any day. Angle is THE MAN."

 

All opinion.

 

"His match v. Benoit was GOLD. He dragged an EXCELLENT match out of shane with a broken tailbone. He actually made TEST have a watchable match. Fucking Test for God's sake."

 

Watchable and good are two different things. Sabu can have watchable matches but they're horrible. His match with Shane was far from excellent, and he couldn't have a great match with Benoit. Shane was calling audibles that match, I've seen it seven times at the provocation of a friend. And it's a decent match at best. Angle looks completely lost at times during both the Benoit series and Shane match. He stalls.

 

"That's idiotic. In a shoot wrestling match Angle would expose Jericho as the joke he is. He could tap him out, pin him, take him down, suplex him, basically do anything he wants to him at WILL. The gold medal thing is a gimmick but it does demonstrate HUGE credentials."

 

When all else fails, revert to the MMA.

 

"Now, to translate his pro-wrestling matches over: I still think he's much better. He is incredibly athletic, doesn't look out of his element (Jericho on lifts) and uses realistic submissions. His moonsault is 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times better than Jericho's etc. etc. etc."

 

That has nothing to do with his ability to put on a good match.

 

"I agree. However, ask anyone who is not a fan of pro-wrestling to watch it. Angle is easily accesable on the mic. This isn't Shakespeare, it's rasslin. Angle is funny as hell."

 

But he's one dimensional in that sense. He's only been able to play one character well during his WWF tenure.

 

". What good would a trip to Japan do him?  He already knows how to shoot wrestle,"

 

Ehh, no he doesn't.

 

"...and how to work WWF style."

 

I'd like to see him work to his strengths more. Wrestling specific.

 

"That's all he needs with his current employer.  He already works with some of the best pro wrestlers in the world.  He'd have no use for any puro-style wrestling in the WWF.  Or to put more simply, when's the last time you saw a Dragon Suplex or top-rope Tombstone in the WWF, despite the presence of several guys who could do it?"

 

Frankly, Angle could use the seasoning and a chance to see what is out there. What if he gets a Whiff of PRIDE and wants to try MMA? Or realizes that he could bring in the worked shoot? Or learn how to work better? Like I said, everyone in the WWF could use some time in Japan (including Vince) to realize the full potential of wrestling.

[Guest J*ingus]

". What good would a trip to Japan do him?  He already knows how to shoot wrestle,"

Ehh, no he doesn't.

 

Are you saying that an Olympic Gold Medal Winner doesn't know how to really wrestle?  

 

"...and how to work WWF style."

I'd like to see him work to his strengths more. Wrestling specific.

 

As far as the WWF goes, Kurt already has all he'll need.  There isn't anything which he can't already do which is used in the WWF to any extent.  

 

Frankly, Angle could use the seasoning and a chance to see what is out there.

 

He's said that a major reason he's in the WWF is for the money, and no Japanese organization could offer him a comparable salary.  

 

What if he gets a Whiff of PRIDE and wants to try MMA?

 

More power to him, I'd love to see him try.  But I doubt he would.  

 

Or realizes that he could bring in the worked shoot?

 

Why would he want to?  The worked shoot style is definitely an acquired taste, and the American fans have a very hard time adjusting to anything different.  Mutoh quit NJPW because he didn't like it.  

 

Or learn how to work better?

 

"work better" is an awfully amorphous term.  What exactly do you mean, and how would a Japanese tour help accomplish it?  

 

Like I said, everyone in the WWF could use some time in Japan (including Vince) to realize the full potential of wrestling.

 

Most of the wrestlers in the WWF have been to Japan at one time or another.  Vince has run several shows there throughout the years.

[Guest Brian]

"Are you saying that an Olympic Gold Medal Winner doesn't know how to really wrestle?"

 

More along the lines of MMA. Sorry for the confusion.

 

"He's said that a major reason he's in the WWF is for the money, and no Japanese organization could offer him a comparable salary."

 

All Vince has to do is get a working agreement going, he doesn't need a contract. Vince and Inoki are hard-headed.

 

"Why would he want to?  The worked shoot style is definitely an acquired taste, and the American fans have a very hard time adjusting to anything different.  Mutoh quit NJPW because he didn't like it."

 

Angle's strengths are in worked shoot and Angle is no where near the worker Mutoh is, and has nowhere near the epxerience where he wouldn't want to conform out of habit.

"work better" is an awfully amorphous term.  What exactly do you mean, and how would a Japanese tour help accomplish it?"

 

Well, Angle would have to work against a language barrier which would help improve at points in the match where he gets lost, or just doesn't know how to follow up. Angle's psychology and selling are decent.

 

"Most of the wrestlers in the WWF have been to Japan at one time or another.  Vince has run several shows there throughout the years."

 

Last time any major promotion went to Japan was WCW in 1991. Very few top performers have wrestled extensively in Japan.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

Yeah, Angle would really benefit from learning the "shoot style". I mean, look at all those classic matches "shooters" like Yasuda, Fugita, and Ogawa have had...

[Guest Badd Company]

I'm not gonna get into this debate, as I can't see why people can't just accept that Angle and Jericho are BOTH incredible workers, from in-ring work to mic skills, and leave it at that?

As for Jericho's 3 inch lifts...do you really think those were HIS idea?  I always understood they were the product of Vince's unbending big man fetish, as Jericho in regular boots is just "too short" to be a true "WWF superstar".  As for X-Pac, his neck and back were jacked up long before he and Jericho ever met....the guy lives his career on the shelf.  I love Angle (though I'm biased a little more towards Jericho, as I've watched him since his first days in WCW, and have seen all the crap he's gone through, whereas Angle was thankfully pretty much pushed as a top guy with no political forces holding him back from day 1).  Anyways, I'm rambling....people need to quit being such marks and just appreciate what both of these great guys bring to the table.

[Guest]

I think Angle is good......he was the winner of the olympics so ofcourse he is. Jericho is not good on the other hand........he is so boring and all his moves suck shit. They are still not close to RVD and SCSA who are the top two in the WWF when it comes to keepin it bumpin in the ring.

 

Jericho wears lifts on his boots???? How????? I never seen them.

 

Jingus you said Rikishi fueded with BEnoit but taht never happeend.

[Guest Big Poppa Popick]

Now, it appears to me we have some hardcore Angle fans, hell even I get a kick outta him, but y'all are just being plain stupid

 

Let's run this down again...

Angler as a better wrestler...

Now, yes Angle won Olympic gold, but that AINT pro wrestling.  He's got how many years experience as a pro wrestler?  That's what I thought.  Since he's come so far in a short while, he could be a super-duper talent given a few more years to hone his style.  However, he doesn't have the ring experience that the rest of the wwf upper tier has.

 

The argument that "so-and-so" would beat up "so-and-so" isn't relevant here.  We're talking about a staged wrestling event.  Who cares? I bet alot of wrestlers know some really truly nasty holds.

 

To say Angle is underappreciated is a joke...what? you wanna have him hold the title for a year and not build up anyone new...you want to see him win every match, destroy every opponent

 

its called wcw 1998-2001...

 

Angle's damn well done great in the business, winning everything he can save the royal rumble (which he will one day soon) and you sit there and whine...christ sakes, at least the storm marks got something to gripe about

 

lame.

[Guest Brian]

"Yeah, Angle would really benefit from learning the "shoot style". I mean, look at all those classic matches "shooters" like Yasuda, Fugita, and Ogawa have had..."

 

I was thinking him taking the style to the heights of BattleArts and UWFi.

[Guest J*ingus]

"I was thinking him taking the style to the heights of BattleArts and UWFi."

 

The same UWFi that's out of business now?  Shoot-style pro wrestling is a proven money loser in Japan, NJPW's attendence and earnings have dropped ever since Inoki adopted that style.  I think it would do even worse in America.

[Guest Choken One]

Are you guys STILL debating this guy? Get a Life. Kurt Angle is nothing, Chris Beniot is nothing.They are nothing but Wrestlers, not gods as you people treat them like.

[Guest The Masked Yodeler]

UWFi was fucking HUGE in it's day.  But real shoots came along, and the fans moved on.

[Guest Brian]

True, but the novelty of one shoot-style wrestler like Angle taking it to the mat, and pounding guys, in the US would draw. It's not like the entire promotion has to adapt to Angle. It's more like the WWF is offering something to benefit all people. If a shoot promotion, like UFC, ever got a good push behind it, I'm sure there'd be competition as strong as any company could offer. And the WWF should try and at least appeal to people who like other things rather than punching and sports entertainment.

[Guest theWCWRaider]

I think Angle is the number 1 heel in the WWF only because I don't like the way they're pushing Jericho.

 

I think that Angle had his legs cut out from under him in that HHH Stephanie feud.