Red Sox-Yankees Series

[JangoFett4Hire 0]

Personally, I blame Lou Pinella for that dirty slide into Fisk in 1976 for every Sox/Yanks brawl ever since.

 

Where would you rank yesterday's melee compared to previous Sox/Yanks brawls?

Last year's game three is tops, just due to the gerbil getting tossed by Pedro. (OMG Pedro beat up a senior citizen!) And then next I would pick that brawl in 76/77 (I forget) where that cheap rat-bastid Craig Nettles seperated Spaceman Lee's shoulder, fucking him up for the rest of his career. I wish Nettles was Munson's co-pilot!

[Guest Staravenger]

I wish Nettles was Munson's co-pilot!

Throwing death threats at something that happend almost 30 years ago...at least we evolved from 5 years old to 13, where now the argument is I have more pubic hair than you.

 

Unless one of us was standing next to A-Rod & V-Tek, we don't know what the exchange was, considering the main camera was BEHIND Tek's back, thus only getting a shot of the back of his head and A-Rod getting sand in his vagina. How someone can argue Tek did NOTHING WRONG, and not have a good look at the part of his head where his mouth is, cannot be taken without a half a shaker full of salt.

[Guest Nelly's Bandaid]

"And you still don't know if that happened. You're assuming again."

 

With the logic your missing.

 

"He was cussing at Arroyo, Tek got between them to protect his pitcher, A-Rod didn't like it, rattled off some four letter words and asked if Tek wanted to go. Tek obliged him. "

 

HE WAS ON HIS WAY TO FIRST, NOT THE PITCHERS MOUND. Try and grasp that, then post.

[the max 0]

"And you still don't know if that happened. You're assuming again."

 

With the logic your missing.

 

"He was cussing at Arroyo, Tek got between them to protect his pitcher, A-Rod didn't like it, rattled off some four letter words and asked if Tek wanted to go. Tek obliged him. "

 

HE WAS ON HIS WAY TO FIRST, NOT THE PITCHERS MOUND. Try and grasp that, then post.

Try to actually argue with points to refute someone else's argument, not with "you're stupid" and childish name-calling and then get back to me.

[Guest Wildbomb 4:20]

The big issue that I had with all of this is that this is what Varitek does to EVERY HBP that gets a reaction like A-Rod had, where the staredown with the pitcher starts. Please see: Sheffield in New York in April. Sheffield took the bag. A-Rod dropped four fuck yous and a come on, motherfucker. Somehow, I take that a little bit more heavily than the "Varitek must have said something to piss him off." It's Varitek's job to make sure his pitcher isn't the one to get the fight. If it's anybody, it's going to be him. And as shown yesterday, A-Rod wanted to go, and Varitek gave it to him.

 

Now, as for the whole Tanyon Sturtze incident: Tanyon yanked Kapler around the neck in a pretty good choke. Ortiz came over to get him off, and Nixon barged over as well. Ortiz winds up pulling Kapler off of Sturtze. Sturtze bleeds from the ear...bah, tis but a flesh wound.

 

It turned into a melee that was fun and made the intensity level go through the roof. And made the game that much more interesting.

 

--Ryan

[the max 0]

Don't forget:

 

It can't be A-Rod's fault, because he can curse at Arroyo for as long as he wants. Tek doesn't have the right to step between them.

[The Czech Republic 0]

I am actually loving that idea and after words Nomar announces that A-Rod, Jeter and him are the New World Order of shorts stops haha!!!

Thanks.

But where does Gumby fit into this?

[Guest Staravenger]

I am actually loving that idea and after words Nomar announces that A-Rod, Jeter and him are the New World Order of shorts stops haha!!!

Thanks.

But where does Gumby fit into this?

Fuck Gumby (I won't even ASK Why Gumby is mentioned), I'm wondering what the hell you just quoted...

 

OK I will ask. Why is GUMBY being discussed in a RED SOX/YANKEES thread?

[Brett Favre 0]

Don't forget:

 

It can't be A-Rod's fault, because he can curse at Arroyo for as long as he wants. Tek doesn't have the right to step between them.

First of all, he wasn't cursing at 'em, he was staring him down.

 

Secondly. You seem to think that since Varitek's reputation of doing no wrong is intact, he can do no wrong. And just because of that your assuming that he didn't do anything to piss off A-Rod. IMO, he had to have said something to him. Even though A-Rod was staring down Arroyo, he was CLEARLY going to first base. Varitek must of said something that had A-Rod that pissed. But since we're talking about Alex Rodriquez here, he has to be the bad guy.

[Brett Favre 0]

A-Rod didn't start cursing until Varitek got involved. If Varitek doesn't say anything insulting to people for no reason, why would A-Rod? IMO, Varitek said something to piss 'em off.

Actually, I recall seeing A-Rod give Bronson a few naughty words before quickly turning to Varitek and blowing up.

 

I still maintain that A-Rod totally lost it and nothing would have happened if he just jogged to first. Sure, you can give the pitcher a dirty look and probably say something, but jack one out of the yard your next time up instead of trying to be a tough guy and instigating (yes, reeling off 4 or 5 "fuck you's" and making a "bring it" motion to a guy is instigating) a brawl. Varitek probably could have controlled himself, but the situation just was going downhill from there.

 

Really, I ask again, what possibly could have Varitek said to him to justify that explosion? A-Rod was pissed, saw Tek coming up to him to try and calm him down and walk him to first, and unleashed his rage on him.

 

Of course, I'm probably just "distoring reality."

Or your just giving a bias view.

 

Your View:

 

Varitek could do no wrong.

 

A-Rod is a crazy bastard and was cursing at Arroyo as soon as he got hit.

 

Arroyos smirk was a nice friendly smile.

 

Varitek told him to go to first and just be friends.

[the max 0]

Don't forget:

 

It can't be A-Rod's fault, because he can curse at Arroyo for as long as he wants. Tek doesn't have the right to step between them. 

First of all, he wasn't cursing at 'em, he was staring him down.

 

Secondly. You seem to think that since Varitek's reputation of doing no wrong is intact, he can do no wrong. And just because of that your assuming that he didn't do anything to piss off A-Rod. IMO, he had to have said something to him. Even though A-Rod was staring down Arroyo, he was CLEARLY going to first base. Varitek must of said something that had A-Rod that pissed. But since we're talking about Alex Rodriquez here, he has to be the bad guy.

Since A-Rod didn't say anything after the game, we have to think that he just lost his cool at that point. Maybe Tek got too close to him or whatnot. Fact is that Sheffield didn't have a problem with Tek walking him down to first in New York. Maybe A-Rod wanted to spook Arroyo.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

First of all, he wasn't cursing at 'em, he was staring him down.

It appears as though you missed the <Wayne's World> EXTREME FOX CLOSE-UP~ Whoooooooa </Wayne's World> that showed A-Rod looking out at Arroyo after being plunked, somewhat pointing his bat in his direction and going "Fuck You" before dropping the bat, taking off his body armor and saying the phrase "Fuck you" a few more times and then saying "Fuck you motherfucker".

 

Secondly. You seem to think that since Varitek's reputation of doing no wrong is intact, he can do no wrong. And just because of that your assuming that he didn't do anything to piss off A-Rod. IMO, he had to have said something to him. Even though A-Rod was staring down Arroyo, he was CLEARLY going to first base. Varitek must of said something that had A-Rod that pissed. But since we're talking about Alex Rodriquez here, he has to be the bad guy.

Yes, Varitek said "Shut-up and go down to first" which he stated in the post game interview that was EVERYWHERE last night. From there A-Rod said "Fuck You" to Varitek and then did the "Bring it" thing. Varitek obliged and gave A-Rod a palm strike to the face.

 

I'm starting to think you didn't see any of this and infact were told of what happened through a friend's friend's cousin's sister who was a bus driver that drove the batboy home from the stadium or some shit.

[the max 0]

I didn't see the postgame report, as my Fox affiliate cut right to COPS.

[Brett Favre 0]

First of all, he wasn't cursing at 'em, he was staring him down.

It appears as though you missed the <Wayne's World> EXTREME FOX CLOSE-UP~ Whoooooooa </Wayne's World> that showed A-Rod looking out at Arroyo after being plunked, somewhat pointing his bat in his direction and going "Fuck You" before dropping the bat, taking off his body armor and saying the phrase "Fuck you" a few more times and then saying "Fuck you motherfucker".

 

Secondly. You seem to think that since Varitek's reputation of doing no wrong is intact, he can do no wrong. And just because of that your assuming that he didn't do anything to piss off A-Rod. IMO, he had to have said something to him. Even though A-Rod was staring down Arroyo, he was CLEARLY going to first base. Varitek must of said something that had A-Rod that pissed. But since we're talking about Alex Rodriquez here, he has to be the bad guy.

Yes, Varitek said "Shut-up and go down to first" which he stated in the post game interview that was EVERYWHERE last night. From there A-Rod said "Fuck You" to Varitek and then did the "Bring it" thing. Varitek obliged and gave A-Rod a palm strike to the face.

 

I'm starting to think you didn't see any of this and infact were told of what happened through a friend's friend's cousin's sister who was a bus driver that drove the batboy home from the stadium or some shit.

Actually I saw the game on Fox, and saw the replay like 5 times on baseball tonight.

 

Varitek said he told him to shut up and go to first? Is this coming from the same team that has a guy who said he told Jorge Posada that "he'll remember this" last year during the ALCS? Anyone can say anything, it doesn't mean he said it.

 

And now suddenly A-Rod wasn't cursing at Varitek but Arroyo? Right.

 

And lets not forget that Arroyo had an evil smirk. But that's okay, it was all in fun!

 

2 outs no one on, please. It wasn't even a curveball, it was a sinker. Sinkers shouldn't get away.

[Guest Staravenger]

If it was in Yankee stadium, I'd agree, but the bat boy is probably a Red Sox fan, so he wouldn't be defending A-Rod and jumping all over Varitek.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

Actually I saw the game on Fox, and saw the replay like 5 times on baseball tonight.

Then I advise you watch it at least 5 more times. Perhaps in slow motion.

 

Varitek said he told him to shut up and go to first? Is this coming from the same team that has a guy who said he told Jorge Posada that "he'll remember this" last year during the ALCS? Anyone can say anything, it doesn't mean he said it.

By this logic we can say that A-Rod is teamates with Gary Sheffield and Kevin Brown, who are known to be trouble makers in and out of the clubhouse, sport horrible tempers, and have both been the starters of brawls in the past. Hell, if I do go down that route then I can just say A-Rod got in the way of the baseball because he wanted to start shit. You do however have the chance to go and take this statement back however and admit that even though people are on the same team they do not share the same mentality.

 

And now suddenly A-Rod wasn't cursing at Varitek but Arroyo? Right.

Well seeing as how A-Rod's eyes were focused solely on Arroyo at first because it took 5 seconds or so for Tek to get up out of his crouch and then in front of A-Rod I would have to say yes.

 

And lets not forget that Arroyo had an evil smirk. But that's okay, it was all in fun!

That's actually not a smirk. He's alot like Joe Randa in the fact his face is stuck in a weird looking shit eating grin. Still, you're implying that early in a 3-0 game that he's intenionally trying to hit a player which puts a runner on and gives them a chance of getting the lead into an out of reach situation. If the game was 7-0 or so and A-Rod had gotten a hit in his previous AB to knock in some runs I might agree. However, in his first AB he hit a slow squibbler to second base.

 

2 outs no one on, please. It wasn't even a curveball, it was a sinker. Sinkers shouldn't get away.

It was a slider. Arroyo throws neither a sinker or a curveball. He throws a fastball, change-up, and a slider.

[Brett Favre 0]

Actually I saw the game on Fox, and saw the replay like 5 times on baseball tonight.

Then I advise you watch it at least 5 more times. Perhaps in slow motion.

 

Varitek said he told him to shut up and go to first? Is this coming from the same team that has a guy who said he told Jorge Posada that "he'll remember this" last year during the ALCS? Anyone can say anything, it doesn't mean he said it.

By this logic we can say that A-Rod is teamates with Gary Sheffield and Kevin Brown, who are known to be trouble makers in and out of the clubhouse, sport horrible tempers, and have both been the starters of brawls in the past. Hell, if I do go down that route then I can just say A-Rod got in the way of the baseball because he wanted to start shit. You do however have the chance to go and take this statement back however and admit that even though people are on the same team they do not share the same mentality.

 

And now suddenly A-Rod wasn't cursing at Varitek but Arroyo? Right.

Well seeing as how A-Rod's eyes were focused solely on Arroyo at first because it took 5 seconds or so for Tek to get up out of his crouch and then in front of A-Rod I would have to say yes.

 

And lets not forget that Arroyo had an evil smirk. But that's okay, it was all in fun!

That's actually not a smirk. He's alot like Joe Randa in the fact his face is stuck in a weird looking shit eating grin. Still, you're implying that early in a 3-0 game that he's intenionally trying to hit a player which puts a runner on and gives them a chance of getting the lead into an out of reach situation. If the game was 7-0 or so and A-Rod had gotten a hit in his previous AB to knock in some runs I might agree. However, in his first AB he hit a slow squibbler to second base.

 

2 outs no one on, please. It wasn't even a curveball, it was a sinker. Sinkers shouldn't get away.

It was a slider. Arroyo throws neither a sinker or a curveball. He throws a fastball, change-up, and a slider.

All i'm saying is just because Varitek said what he said does not make it true. I can say I can read minds whenever I feel like it, doesn't mean it's true.

 

Arroyo's face is not like Joe Randa or Braden Looper he was smiling as soon as he hit 'em and was asking for the ball back. A-Rod walked out of the batters box and starting taking out his elbow pad when Varitek starting walking up to him. As soon as the camera zooms out you can clearly see he was looking straight at Varitek when he was yelling out the f-bombs. Varitek must of said something because A-Rod doesn't just throw f-bombs each time he gets hit.

 

Oh and A-Rod got the game winning hit the night before, so i'm sure if it was intentional, that could have been part of the reason.

 

Edit - It was a sinker. I could care less what he throws, it looked like a sinker. Started up top and sunk down to his elbow where he got hit.

Edited July 25, 2004 by Cena's Writer

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Are you seriously that naive CW? Also wasn't Posada more upset over the head gesture rather than what Pedro said? I wouldn't be surprised if that is what Pedro said but Posada took the head gesture as meaning that he could expect to get beaned.

 

Also why doubt what Varitek said? If I got plunked and was as pissed as A-Rod was and somebody told me to shut up, I'd probably take issue with them too.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

All i'm saying is just because Varitek said what he said does not make it true. I can say I can read minds whenever I feel like it, doesn't mean it's true.

So I'm not suppose to believe a man who was involved and also admitted in the same interview that he was in the wrong for letting his emotions get the best of him after being challenged? How about Arroyo who was asked about it and said "I've hit 14 batters on the season now. I have to pitch inside and not one of those batters was intentional. I don't know why he was yelling at me".

 

This is going to be quite pointless however if you're just going to ignore the statements of all the players involved.

 

Arroyo's face is not like Joe Randa or Braden Looper he was smiling as soon as he hit 'em and was asking for the ball back.

You may have seen Arroyo twice. I've watched him for 2 seasons now and whenever he's in the dugout he has that same stupid look on his face. Genetics were not kind to him in that aspect.

 

A-Rod walked out of the batters box and starting taking out his elbow pad when Varitek starting walking up to him. As soon as the camera zooms out you can clearly see he was looking straight at Varitek when he was yelling out the f-bombs. Varitek must of said something because A-Rod doesn't just throw f-bombs each time he gets hit.

Now who's "distorting reality"? You painted a whole scenerio that justified it all in your mind. Which proves that this whole discussion is going to go nowhere since you'll just change things here and there to make the Red Sox "the bad guys". If you can't even admit the man who instigated it was in the wrong then you're homerness is blinding you. Hell, I believe even AngleSault said A-Rod over reacted and started it out of nothing...ANGLESAULT!

 

Oh and A-Rod got the game winning hit the night before, so i'm sure if it was intentional, that could have been part of the reason.

Again, I'll say if they wanted to plunk him they would do it when the game is out of reach and in late innings. Not in the third when you're down by 3 and the game is within reach. You could say they plunked him because the division is out of reach, but the Red Sox are still in the Wild Card picture and need to win every game they can. Why would they intentionally try to make a game more difficult to win that is within reach? Your arguement would have merit if this was Toronto in the place of the Red Sox.

[Guest FrigidSoul]

Edit - It was a sinker. I could care less what he throws, it looked like a sinker. Started up top and sunk down to his elbow where he got hit.

From here on out 12-6 curveballs will be known as "sinkers" because they start out high and then drop down.

 

Thank you for playing, you get no parting gifts.

[Gert T 0]

Since A-Rod didn't say anything after the game, we have to think that he just lost his cool at that point. Maybe Tek got too close to him or whatnot. Fact is that Sheffield didn't have a problem with Tek walking him down to first in New York. Maybe A-Rod wanted to spook Arroyo.

I think Sheff was too pissed at Pedro to even focus on Varitek.

 

After watching the replay I lost the sympathy I had for Sturtze, what the hell was he doing going after Kapler? Although if I am a teammate I like him going out there.

[Brett Favre 0]

So I'm not suppose to believe a man who was involved and also admitted in the same interview that he was in the wrong for letting his emotions get the best of him after being challenged? How about Arroyo who was asked about it and said "I've hit 14 batters on the season now. I have to pitch inside and not one of those batters was intentional. I don't know why he was yelling at me".

 

I guess Varitek is the guy that never lies.

 

He was yelling at Arroyo because he hit him and starting grinning about it.

 

Now who's "distorting reality"? You painted a whole scenerio that justified it all in your mind. Which proves that this whole discussion is going to go nowhere since you'll just change things here and there to make the Red Sox "the bad guys". If you can't even admit the man who instigated it was in the wrong then you're homerness is blinding you. Hell, I believe even AngleSault said A-Rod over reacted and started it out of nothing...ANGLESAULT!

 

He wasn't wrong. He got hit by the pitch, starting walking to first base, yelled something out at Arroyo (which wasn't when he started cursing) and was on his way to first. Varitek came over and said SOMETHING, and A-Rod starting cursing and told him to bring it on. That's how it went.

 

Anglesault hasn't said a word about A-Rod overeacting, but you can believe whatever you want.

 

Again, I'll say if they wanted to plunk him they would do it when the game is out of reach and in late innings. Not in the third when you're down by 3 and the game is within reach. You could say they plunked him because the division is out of reach, but the Red Sox are still in the Wild Card picture and need to win every game they can. Why would they intentionally try to make a game more difficult to win that is within reach? Your arguement would have merit if this was Toronto in the place of the Red Sox.

 

Players do things at the heat of the moment (A-Rod cursing at Varitek), and maybe, Arroyo plunking A-Rod intentionally. It's possible, don't tell me it's not.

[Brett Favre 0]

Are you seriously that naive CW? Also wasn't Posada more upset over the head gesture rather than what Pedro said? I wouldn't be surprised if that is what Pedro said but Posada took the head gesture as meaning that he could expect to get beaned.

 

Also why doubt what Varitek said? If I got plunked and was as pissed as A-Rod was and somebody told me to shut up, I'd probably take issue with them too.

Try reading his lips, and it's easy to figure out what he said. If you know spanish, try reading his lips in spanish. I remember doing this and he did not say i'll remember this. Remember, it took him like 2 days to figure out something to say to the media, because he was avoiding them.

[Brett Favre 0]

Edit - It was a sinker. I could care less what he throws, it looked like a sinker. Started up top and sunk down to his elbow where he got hit.

From here on out 12-6 curveballs will be known as "sinkers" because they start out high and then drop down.

 

Thank you for playing, you get no parting gifts.

So now a Slider is a sinker i'm guessing? It didn't drop down like a 12-6 curveball, I never said that. I said it dropped down to his elbow, it started off pretty high.

 

Heck, there tons of pitches that drop down (splitter, sinker, curveball, some changeups, knuckleball), a slider isn't one of them.

[Guest Brian]

"You know shit about lifting and fighting. When you first lose your balance in a real fight, you have to center up your gravity. You have to get lower to get a good lift in, and Varitek wasn't low enough nor centered enough. He came back down with his feet wider and ready to throw"

 

That sounds great when you forget about Arod being stronger than Vtek, the real reason he couldn't lift. He had the head locked and his weight down, Vtek couldn't do anything.

And once again, you're proving you don't know anything. I've fought guys bigger and strnger than me and it doesn't mean shit. If Varitek deadweight lifted him up, which is mainly from the back with very little left from the legs, when he gets down and really gets under, he's going to throw him. More than likely, he's not even going to bother trying to play around, and just straight up toss. Stength was out of play if Varitek gets down, which he was doing until his teamates converged.

 

Probably because Kapler's the biggest and strongest on the field. Dude is a monster.

[Guest Wildbomb 4:20]

My oh my oh my...people are getting stupid, and it's starting to get hilarious.

 

Bronson Arroyo has a lot of HBPs this year. He usually does. With a fastball that tops out at around 90, tops, he tries to pitch inside. Occasionaly his pitches get away from him. Whether it's a curve that doesn't break, a slider that got away (A-Rod), or just a good old fashioned inside fastball, Arroyo will usually put one on every other start.

 

Alex Roderiguez overreacted to start, but he usually will give a look out towards the mound after he gets hit and he feels it was intentional. He hasn't really had a good brawl, or charged anyone for it, but he'll jaw and stare plenty.

 

Jason Varitek, once again, for those paying attention, will ALWAYS walk down the line with said HBP if the batter felt they were intentionally hit. Sheffield had the same reaction, we saw it in the playoffs last season, we've seen it always.

 

So to say that Varitek did something out of the ordinary here is incorrect. To say A-Rod did as well is only partially correct. They both came to blows after one got angry with the other. Based upon what Varitek TYPICALLY does after an HBP and based upon what A-Rod TYPICALLY does after he gets hit, I would say that A-Rod was the one who started it. I could be wrong, but what has previously been displayed would lead me to that conclusion.

 

--Ryan

[Guest FrigidSoul]

I'm not going to argue with a man who doesn't even understand that a slider drops down. It "slides" down and over which is why its called a slider. Step one of you becoming an intelligent fan is for you to watch Randy Johnson pitch. He throws a fastball and a slider. His slider has so much break that it often goes into the dirt.

 

At least we know of one person who will benefit from the creation of Scooter.

[Brett Favre 0]

I'm not going to argue with a man who doesn't even understand that a slider drops down. It "slides" down and over which is why its called a slider. Step one of you becoming an intelligent fan is for you to watch Randy Johnson pitch. He throws a fastball and a slider. His slider has so much break that it often goes into the dirt.

 

At least we know of one person who will benefit from the creation of Scooter.

A slider doesn't have a sudden drop a sinker does. It's sorta of a sliding motion (which it's why they call it a slider) that starts at one end and slides to another direction. That had a sudden drop.

[the max 0]

Because it slipped out of his hand. You don't throw a slider to hit someone in the ass. The only reason it hit him was because it slipped out of Arroyo's hand.

 

If he intended to hit A-Rod, he would have hit him with a fastball.

[Guest Brian]

Let me put it this way to make it a little easier for the fan boys to follow. Have someone put you in a headlock. Now, your generally going to be stiff going in, as in your feet aren't in position and you don't have a lot of leverage. Now, your first instinct is either going to be escape or lift. You lift, and he's not going to let go, but you've given yourself a chance to get in a better position plus you've generally taken him off balance. So you're at a lower center of gravity, which means you can lift more from your legs instead of your back. He still can't let go of the headlock without risking letting you go, and because he's taller, you keep inside position to keep him from extending his arm out for a big swing. So you lift the second time with your legs, rather than the back. You know you can get him off his feet, so the options are either to whip his body forward or toss him back.

 

Varitek could whip him back but he'd risk hurting himself and he'd gain no position. So he whips him forward, because he's still got a chest protector, and more than likely he'll end up in half mount, which means Varitek is free to whoop on him.

 

The thing you have to realize about strength is that A-Rod's using his upperbody to keep Varitek in the headlock and low. Varitek, who mind you is a well-built catcher (which generally guarantees a good amount of strength, between a 3-400 lb. squat), and he can use his whole body, but mainly he has the legs to lift with.