New Mattitude Commentary-- Be positive, guys.

[Guest Reservoir_Kitty]

I think it's funny that wrestlers absolutely flip balls when they read something about them that isn't the most positive thing ever on the internet. I'm sure the wrestlers have crap that they bitch about constantly and not in a "positive and constructive" manner. Matt's just cranky because the mean internet bullies are making fun of his girlfriend.

 

Besides, I'm ever so sure anything that the average joe suggested to the WWE would make its way to Vince McMahon, who would leap out of his chair screaming "BRILLIANT! Find this person and give him/her a job!". They'd do what they most likely do with everything sent to them, read it, mock it, and delete it. I honestly don't think our opinions matter unless we're agreeing with Vince. He's doing what he wants with his business, and the rest of us can probably piss off. *shrug* That's how I see it, anyway.

[AndrewTS 0]

According to Matt, Michael Cole and Rue are far more qualified to comment on what should be done, since they are or were "in the business."

 

Bruce Pritchard has of course been in the business for a long, long time. Naturally he knows better than all of us, and how dare we criticize him for his (what we believe to be lousy) booking.

 

Russo's been in the business several years before he left completely, and he was presiding over some successful periods. Damnit, Matt'd be pissed if he heard some of the things we've said about him.

 

Maybe he means that the wrestlers themselves know better, so we shouldn't criticize any booking that was done by Hogan, Flair, Nash, or HHH.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

But if you're talking about WWE as a business, which most of us are typically doing when we discuss who they should and shouldn't push, you need to understand how the business actually works and put aside your fanboy biases. It astonishes me that so many of you think that Matt Hardy being a wrestler *doesn't* make him more knowledgable of the inner workings of wrestling than us. He is. And it's important to keep it in perpsective.

I expect Matt Hardy to know more than I do about the following:

 

* How to dive off the top rope without breaking your wind and being unable to stand

 

* Selling

 

* Taking your injuries like a man

 

* Match psychology (must admit I've never been very keen with that one)

 

* How to do Twist of Fate without fucking up the other guy's head/neck

 

* Working out and other gym-related stuff

 

 

However, when it comes to issues like:

 

* Who the crowd will accept in the main event

 

* Whether someone is putting on good enough matches to justify their spot on the card

 

* Who's been overexposed and pushed too much

 

* Who's hanging around at the bottom and needs to be pushed more

 

 

These are completely subjective and arguable beliefs that have no right or wrong answer. One does not need to spend 10 years in the business to say "Wow, the crowd really pops huge when that guy comes out." Or, "say, the buyrate when through the roof when they took the world title off that guy."

 

Again, I expect James Cameron to know more than Roger Ebert on directing. I expect Liam Neeson to know more than Ebert on acting. Doesn't mean that Ebert can't figure out that "White Chicks" is a really bad film.

[Guest clown]

It doesn't help that the wrestlers have a superiority complex over the fans marks that watch them perform.

Yeah, because you obviously know so much more about wrestling and the business than the actual wrestlers do

 

I find it funny you criticizing them for that since most of you (most, some..whatever) act superior to the actual wrestlers most of the time in your posts

 

and yes I know I'll probably just get some 'witty' sarcastic replies and shit like 'oh yay...more smark bashing' but oh well

[AndrewTS 0]

*notices that clown completely ignores JotW's post to reply to a single Rudo sentence, builds a straw man, and then goes off on the tired smark-bashing tirade*

[Guest clown]

yeah must have missed it, only really looked through the first page and a bit of the second

 

meh...shit happens

[Tawren 0]

You know who sucks? The fans. Those bastards aren't positive enough about rape. They can't appreciate the excellent rape storylines we get. If they don't like rape, then they should just shut up and watch it, because dammit they are the fans and despite paying to see us do our job, they OWE US. Those BASTARD FANS. They SUCK. They're IDIOTS and they are FAT and they are TWELVE YEARS OLD. If they don't like rape and murder and the same generic people being pushed over and over again, it's because they are STUPID.

[Jobber of the Week 0]

You know who sucks? The fans. Those bastards aren't positive enough about rape. They can't appreciate the excellent rape storylines we get.

Like Monty Python said, look on the bright side of death.

[Guest Nelly's Bandaid]

"That’s cool by me -- it could and should help the business expand and get better. You would think anyone in the business or a fan of the business would do their best to build upon the positives. My biggest gripe is the negativity the Internet is breeding due to people being desensitized and one-dimensional when it comes to our product. I want the "wrestling negativity snowball" to stop, or at least slow down for the good of the entire sports-entertainment business. Too many people read someone’s opinion on the Internet and take it as factual information. It’s way too often that the majority of the Internet wrestling community takes a writer’s view and lazily allows that to become their view. My challenge to all of you is to question opinions. Don’t take opinions as facts; don’t even take them as good opinions. Come to your own conclusions. If you find something enjoyable that others don’t, that doesn’t mean you’re wrong in liking it."

 

Everyone who's posted in this thread should read that again and then go edit there posts. That was the smartest thing a wrestlers said pertaining to the internet yet.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

God Damn do I fucking hate when wrestlers do shit like this. First off, I as a paying fan of the WWE will think WHATEVER the fuck I'd like. Just like Matt wants positivity out of fans, I want good matches out of the shows I watch and the shows I PAY FOR. So if I don't feel like the quality is up to par on something that I PAY FOR, then I will bitch....like any other customer that PAYS to use a service or business. I am sick and tired of the attitude that some wrestlers seem to have towards the fans. Why is it when everything is going great for a company then the fans are so great....yet when the numbers start falling we always have to read one of those "fucking stupid internet mark" columns. If it is a sad attempt to get heel heat from the "smarts" then try getting legitamate heat instead of half assing it. Otherwise if he seriously thinks this way......then fuck him.

[Guest Nelly's Bandaid]

So Dynamite by that logic you only critique PPV's right?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Yeah, because you obviously know so much more about wrestling and the business than the actual wrestlers do

 

Not all. But a significant majority. The system corrupts and biases and not all wrestlers are as insightful as I am because of that. Am I patting myself on the back? Yeah, sure. But tell me how I "know less" than the wrestlers and then I respond properly. I've discussed numerous aspects of the business - from reviewing their Quarterly/Annual Reports to talking about their ring psych (or lack thereof). However, I don't just _say_ that I know better because I am (outside) the business like Matt Hardy does. What does Matt do to show his understanding of "the business"? Cite Merch? For someone who preached "looking outside the box" he didn't get to a number of things that influence our opinion on Litas role in the company.

 

I find it funny you criticizing them for that since most of you (most, some..whatever) act superior to the actual wrestlers most of the time in your posts

 

"Most/Some of us act... most of the time..." Are you Matt Hardy? Because you could not have made a less-convincing point. Wrestlers are not the brightest of all people. Infact, to do what they do - which is to say "willingly get beat up for living and abuse your body physically and chemically" - I wouldn't exactly call it the most intelligent profession. I could be a wrestler; I could run my own promotion. I won't though. I don't want to deal with the egos, the physical and financial toll, and the market isn't exactly booming and demand isn't strong enough to warrant the risk. Maybe if my Daddy had a promotion like Vince McMahons did -which Hardy conveniently forgets, as most wrestlers do- THEN maybe I'd consider it. But the playing field today is very, very dry -in part because of Vince McMahon himself- so it just isn't a smart thing to do. Hell, when Matt Hardy "ran" OMEGA, the market was MUCH stronger than it is today. But that's a point Matt "Not One-Dimensional" Hardy doesn't much-talk on. Instead, in his "well balanced" article, he just says "if you know so much, why don't you run your own promotion".

 

But I generally don't look down on wrestlers - though they certainly give me plenty of reasons to. If you _were_ Matt Hardy, I wouldn't completely ignore your opinion because you're in the business - I'd see it the same way I'd see everyones and then weigh its value _based_ on the opinion given. Hardy doesn't take the time to make that judgement and doesn't think anyone should - because "Internet Writers"'s opinions are worthless, apparently. His? Full of worth, I guess.

 

and yes I know I'll probably just get some 'witty' sarcastic replies and shit like 'oh yay...more smark bashing' but oh well

 

Wait.. so what was your post? The first thing you said was sarcasm. Don't shit and eat in the same house, son.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Wrestlers, inherently, look down on the fans -the marks- so whenever the fans look down on them all-of-a-sudden it's because there is something wrong with us.

 

Yes...all wrestlers look down upon the fans. Do you realize how idiotic that sounds?

 

Yes, it is OUR FAULT that they're running what is essentially a RAPE ANGLE where we are to believe that Kane forced Lita to have sex and now she is pregnant.  Shouldn't the law be involved in this?  I mean, its being portrayed on Television and a woman was threatened into sex, so shouldn't this be looked into by the cops?  This is insulting to our intelligence, but apparently we can't say that because we don't know anything about the business and we don't run our own promotions. 

 

This angle is insulting our intelligence? We're pro wrestling fans! It's not insulting to our intelligence that a man can get his ass kicked for 30 minutes and not even get a black eye? It's TELEVISION. It's...and I hate to be cliche...a soap opera. If you're looking for something with continuity, and logical storytelling you're watching the wrong "sport".

 

How dare we -the fans- comment on such things?  The outrage!  We are totally ungrateful for the sacrifices they make.  All we do is give them our time and our money and our attention; we don't deserve to say our opinion - well, unless its either sugar-coated or complementary.  "Don't think like that... think like this!" is what Hardy is saying, and it's disgusting. 

 

Christ. After reading the things said about Lita, all the people calling her a whore and other things...If I was her boyfriend I'd pretty fucking mad too.

 

It's not the constant insults hurled at us both on television in the form of plot holes and degrading storylines,

 

Can you take things more personally? You don't like it? Change the channel. They aren't forcing you to watch it. The way you carry on it can't be healthy for you. think of your blood pressure!

 

 

Fuck Matt Hardy.  Fuck the WWE.  Until they stop making this "The WWE vs. The Internet", until they stop seeing us as adversaries, and until they see where WE are coming from in regards to their OWN shitty programming, then there will always be crap like this.  And you know what?  It will NEVER stop.  And it's not because we are negative; it's because they see us as marks and therefore we are to be "worked", and if they're not working us -if we aren't buying their shit- then it's because we're jaded and bitter and cynical and not because they can't get us to believe in the work.  Because they think they are holding up their end of the bargain.  They think they are putting out the "quality" feuds, matches, and storylines - and if you had insanely low standards and saw the fans as idiots, then I guess it would be "quality".  They will never see it's their fault, because the only people being worked is them.

 

[AndrewTS 0]

"This angle is insulting our intelligence? We're pro wrestling fans! It's not insulting to our intelligence that a man can get his ass kicked for 30 minutes and not even get a black eye? It's TELEVISION. It's...and I hate to be cliche...a soap opera. If you're looking for something with continuity, and logical storytelling you're watching the wrong 'sport'."

 

Because there's nothing different between a typical TV program and a WWE show. Nope, same damn thing.

 

Also, I seem to not be able to recall smarks gushing over any matches that were basically a half-hour of punching each other in the face, so I fail to see the point. I suppose what WWE should do is, after a particularly nasty-looking punch, call for a cut, and then apply makeup around a wrestler's eye, then continue from there.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Yes...all wrestlers look down upon the fans. Do you realize how idiotic that sounds?

 

Explain.

 

Wrestlers are *taught* to "con" the fans. "Marks" isn't exactly a term of endearment, Cob. I have probably read 1 or 2 -MAYBE, because I'm only sure about one- wrestlers not treat the fans like they know nothing on a message board. And these are low-level indy guys. That's not even a %. Thus, the rule stands. Hell, I've talked with people in _wrestling school_ who think they've magically avquired a vast wealth of wrestling knowledge so far above my own that whatever I say is obviously wrong because I haven't taken a bump in the ring. THAT is the wrestler mentality.

 

This angle is insulting our intelligence? We're pro wrestling fans! It's not insulting to our intelligence that a man can get his ass kicked for 30 minutes and not even get a black eye?

 

Actually, it is. That's why I like MMA more than Wrestling. But really, that's another story...

 

There are two different "leaps" one makes. To be a wrestling fan, "unreal damage" is a fundamental leap. You can't be a christian without believing in the resurrection of christ; you can't be a wrestling fan without believing that they can take punishment.

 

However, in terms of "stories", the WWE has done a HORRIBLE job establishing the 4th wall. Sometimes the camera is there, sometimes it is not. Had they been consistant with the standpoint where there is no "viewer" to what goes on backstage, then this angle would be "easier to swallow". But, since there is no distinction, then what is going on with Kane and Lita is seen by the viewer - which is to also say, the police. And even then, they haven't really established why Lita _wouldn't_ tell the Police. I mean, a simple "Lita, if you tell anyone I raped you I will kill you and your boyfriend" would suffice (if the Camera issue was dealt with, which it isn't).

 

In otherwords, the WWE has created a Universe. I accept that universe when I believe that two guys can kick eachothers asses for 30 minutes. I am ready to believe that Kane is in love with Lita, that Hardy is mad at Kane, and that Lita is caught in the middle. However, they continue to defy their own rules when the police aren't involved when Lita is RAPED.

 

It's TELEVISION. It's...and I hate to be cliche...a soap opera. If you're looking for something with continuity, and logical storytelling you're watching the wrong "sport".

 

You're not a very good spindoctor, CWM. If you don't mind me saying...

 

The Rest...

 

CWM, when you want to actually discuss my points rather than using the "if you don't like it..." routine, which is flawed advice given the fact that you clearly don't like what I'm saying yet... here you are reading it and replying to it... then c'mon back and we'll chat and stuff. No biggie.

 

As for me taking it personally... I've watched wrestling for well over a decade, have gone to numerous shows, bought merch, ppv, lost my voice several times, and couldn't begin counting how much time (and emotions) I've invested in watching it and discussing it. When I hear a wrestler saying that means nothing and tells me how to think, I get a lil upset about it. But that's me. I have a habit of thinking my time and dedication is valued by the WWE, when it CLEARLY isn't. And it's not by Matt Hardy, because he -despite his open mind and outside-the-boxnes- doesn't see dedication with my negativity. He just sees negativity because I'm a mark and how dare a mark not get worked.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

It's a SHOW. It isn't real. It's FAKE, F.A.K.E.

 

So they don't hit each other over and over again for 30 minutes? Ok. Instead they're powerbombing, backdroping, and hitting each other with chairs.

 

Your attempt at sarcasm is incredibly naive. Protest as you like, WWE is a soap opera and if you don't like it then don't watch it.

 

At least some of us can still find some things enjoyable about it.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

However, they continue to defy their own rules when the police aren't involved when Lita is RAPED.

 

Agreeing to have sex with someone in exchange for him stopping beating the shit out of your boyfriend isn't rape. Blackmail maybe, rape no.

 

And I agree that the storyline is incredibly awful. But here's everyone getting all pissy because someone who's involved with the business, who's ran a promtion gets mad that we're ragging on his girlfreind.

 

He said "IWC"??!? THAT'S OUR WORD!

 

It's ridiuclous. I also don;t think you have to be a wrestler to understand most aspects of wrestling, but jumping allover him for believing otherwise is just as bad as him jumping all over us.

[AndrewTS 0]

"And I agree that the storyline is incredibly awful. But here's everyone getting all pissy because someone who's involved with the business, who's ran a promtion gets mad that we're ragging on his girlfreind."

 

You must have missed the part where Matt said that we should look at the "positives" of this angle, and actually defending it. It wasn't just ragging on Lita, because the IWC has done that a lot because of her spot-blowing. It's that the ragging on Lita has increased since they tried to get her to "act" and she's been doing a horrible job of it, not that I think the angle itself is really worth her trying at all.

 

A decent actor will "dog it" when not paid enough or if doing a role that he or she doesn't think deserves it. However, if WWE were a real TV show then Vince would have to be paying his talent as if they were actors and actresses, but he refuses to do that. When it is advantageous to Vince, he'll pretend WWE is a sport. When it isn't advantageous to him, he'll pretend it is a TV show. Hence, the wonderous, nebulous "sports entertainment" moniker, where he gets the benefits of both worlds.

 

"At least some of us can still find some things enjoyable about it."

 

Matt was fine until he decided to use that particular example to illustrate what he meant. He used arguably the worst angle WWE has run since Kane/Shane to illustrate something for us to find the "positives" in.

 

Even the densest, most "one-dimensional" smark wouldn't have hired Nathan Jones, for instance. There are a share of times when WWE makes major screw ups, and a major criticism of the IWC turned out to be absolutely correct. Also, plenty of us have indeed been wrong, for example Eugene. Matt seems to completely disregard that many times the IWC can be right about something the WWE's head honchos can be wrong about.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Agreeing to have sex with someone in exchange for him stopping beating the shit out of your boyfriend isn't rape. Blackmail maybe, rape no.

 

He didn't force Lita to have sex with him? Uh whuh? You wouldn't call Blackmail "force"? Uh buh?

 

And I agree that the storyline is incredibly awful. But here's everyone getting all pissy because someone who's involved with the business, who's ran a promtion gets mad that we're ragging on his girlfreind.

 

1. It's not everyone. There's a fair amount of people who are on Matts side and are saying the same things you are.

 

2. People are getting "pissy" because he's dismissing all those who are "negative" about the WWE - because it can't possibly be the WWE's fault - while preaching being "open minded".

 

He said "IWC"??!? THAT'S OUR WORD!

 

The only person I recall saying that... is you.

 

It's ridiuclous. I also don;t think you have to be a wrestler to understand most aspects of wrestling, but jumping allover him for believing otherwise is just as bad as him jumping all over us.

 

And I guess you jumping all over "us" is what... ?

 

Matt Hardy made a commentary with the intention of getting a reaction. _He_ made the initial commentary. Our response is "not as bad" because I don't think any of us would have said "Matt Hardy's opinion isn't worth a damn" before this, nor do I think many would say it's worthless afterwards. I don't think any of us would (or are) telling Matt Hardy HOW TO THINK, either. All I want him to do is actually be consistant with his view of "looking outside the box" and see where WE are coming from.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

A decent actor will "dog it" when not paid enough or if doing a role that he or she doesn't think deserves it.

 

so we should be mad that Lita is trying? It's not like she and Matt came up with the angle. Do you really expect him to go, "Yo, this angle sucks more Dick that Patterson at a high school."?

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

No. Matt -being the "positive"*, "outside the box thinker"** a that he*** is- should have said "You know, I really love that angle. It's really great. I am really excited about it. If there was one change I could make, it would be..."

 

"... more of me in it"

 

-Matt Hardy

 

*suck-up

**self-promoting

***sack of shit

[AndrewTS 0]

A decent actor will "dog it" when not paid enough or if doing a role that he or she doesn't think deserves it.

 

so we should be mad that Lita is trying? It's not like she and Matt came up with the angle. Do you really expect him to go, "Yo, this angle sucks more Dick that Patterson at a high school."?

If they were offended by it, they can turn it down. If they must do it, Matt shouldn't be surprised that people criticize it. By defending it it seems he's all for the angle. I understand that most of the WWE peeps are used to the mentality of "do whatever the company asks," but it's ridiculous in my opinion to act as if an angle this bad shouldn't be railed against.

 

It's bad, it deserves all the criticism one can rail against it. When Lita was going over-the-top it made the angle laughable. On Raw, she at least tried, but it simply couldn't erase the fact that the angle is terrible. So no, I can't enjoy the angle and find "looking for positives" to be a silly, wasteful exercise.

 

I guess I can *try*:

 

at least the following match with Jericho wasn't over coffee

 

we didn't have to hear a Matt Hardy face promo this week

 

Lita didn't wrestle this week

 

That wasn't *too* hard.

[AndrewTS 0]

Rudo: That would have given us a glimmer of hope for a Hardy heel turn, and would clearly be "in character," so that would be totally different.

 

I wonder if Matt Hardy saw Gigli and said "well, the production quality, costumes, makeup etc were all great, editing was decent, and J.Lo was hawt!" Gotta find those positives, folks.

[Australian Pride 0]

If WWE had any sense they would create an on-screen feud to capitalise on all the IWC animosity.

Think about it - they could bring in a few 'unknown' cruiserweights and dress them up as internet-loving geeks and have them declare war on the WWE. There spiritual leader could be that Jonny Fairplay guy from Survivor/TNA (or maybe Jimmy Hart) and he would announce that the first victim would obviously have to be Matt Hardy.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

yes because designing angles that 10% of the audience gets worked SO well for WcW.

[Australian Pride 0]

yes because designing angles that 10% of the audience gets worked SO well for WcW.

sorry, forgot to mention i was being sarcastic. Obviously theres no way WWE would ever book cruiserweights as serious threat to anyone.