Mick foley and the high spot

[Guest nikjohns]

“Er, you aren’t writing a post bashing Mick Foley and expecting to get accepted, are you?”

 

Well… yes.

 

Mick Foley’s jump / fall off the Hell in a Cell at the King of the Ring in 1998 was a pivotal moment for the WWF.  Foley gained a lot of respect from wrestlers and fans alike for daring to do the spot, the likes of which had never been seen before in a WWF wrestling ring.

 

Sure, people had done much, much more dangerous things to themselves – Hell, even Foley had participated in the King of the Deathmatch tournament in Japan, which involved fire, barb wire and C4 explosives.  Any of these things alone could kill a man if used improperly, yet Foley walked away.  

 

Then in the Summer of 1998, a moment occurred that would be shown, re-shown and downloaded by every wrestling fan with a net connection.  A moment that would change the face of the WWF forever.  This sounds like I’m announcing the news or something.  Anyway, above all hyperbole and movie trailers, Foley’s HIAC jump was a defining moment in WWF history.

 

It signalled a change in what was acceptable in the WWF.  Foley took a risk.  This risk had never been needed in the WWF until this point – they had gone for nearly 70 years (1900-1970) without so much as a gimmick match more than a tag team encounter, but times change.  Cage matches were introduced; ladder matches soon followed.  From these, crowds wanted more.  It is a natural reaction – why watch a regular match when you can watch a CAGE MATCH?

 

This is not totally the case though – enough was made of regular matches to make them worthwhile.  By this I mean that cage matches were a speciality, rather than expected.  A regular singles match could be appreciated as a great match by the audience.  They weren’t sat waiting for the cage match, they were happy with what they were getting.

 

Foley changed that with one jump.

 

That one moment made people stop looking at Mankind as a wrestler, and they saw him as a “By God maniac”.  He’d be the one to take the risks.  He’d give you something exciting for your money, and you could guarantee it.  There wasn’t a Mick Foley PPV match from KOTR 1998 through to his retirement that didn’t feature him doing something crazy – usually falling or being hit with something.  That was what the fans cared about.  

 

Who cares if Val Venis is going to defend the IC title for 15 minutes against Ken Shamrock?  Neither of them will do anything as interesting as Foley, who’ll probably fall off something.

 

This hurts the WWF in the long run.  Matches become geared towards a high spot – look at Shane McMahon vs. the Big Show at Backlash 2001.  The whole match was a prelude to Shane jumping however many thousand feet from the top of that steel thing.  Indeed, seemingly the only purpose for making the structure in the first place was to have Shane jump off it.

 

For another example, look at every Hardyz match since the end of ’99, mainly PPVs.  They have had ladder, cage, table and TLC matches abound, and every one has been about Jeff doing something silly and doing a Swanton Bomb off object [X] onto person [Y] who is lying on object [Z].  The Swanton Bomb in itself is a visually impressive move, but doing it off a ladder through a table looks absolutely spectacular.  Doing it as a one off move is a great way of gaining extra credibility as a wrestler and as a way of finishing a feud.  However, doing it on a regular basis hurts the move and makes people want more and more.  Jeff Hardy doing a Swanton Bomb off a Cell?  I wouldn’t doubt it in the long run.

 

Mick Foley himself has acknowledged the fan’s reaction, in his book Foley is Good, he mentions his retirement match against HHH, where he says that the fans in attendance wouldn’t buy any near fall at the start of the match.  Because they knew Foley would end up on top of the cell.  That changed the entire dynamic of the match, because had it been any other wrestler in the match, there was a chance that there could have been no fighting outside of the ring.  But Foley made his own reputation, and has to live with it.

 

Even two years after Foley retired from active wrestling, his mantra of bigger and better has continued.  Just this week on Smackdown, the Undertaker did two moves onto the Rock, on a car.  The Tombstone was his finishing move for nigh on 9 years, and it took almost 8 years for someone to kick out of it.  You take away someone’s arms, and hold them upside down.  Nothing is supporting them, as you drop them on their head.  That is one Hell of a move in anyone’s book.  To do the move onto a car roof is extending a move that is already seen as one of the Most Painful Moves Ever and extending it – but not in a good way.  I’m not saying that one Tombstone-on-a-car will kill the move, but it is almost saying that the Tombstone alone is not enough to keep the Rock down, despite having kept people down for 10 years.

 

Where do things go from here then?

 

One thought would be that the high spots are cut back, and that the emphasis is placed back on the wrestling.  Yeah right.  The worst case scenario is that the spots get more and more extreme, before someone gets seriously hurt.  I mean, we’ve all seen a load of Swanton Bombs off cages and ladders, so where’s the appeal this time?  Why should I care if he does it again, and why should I care if he just does it off the top rope?  I want him to do it off a Cell, through a table that is on fire.  But after he does that, then what?  It’s a downward spiral, but there is one hope:  Injury.

There have been no “extreme” entrances to the ring since Over the Edge ’99, so an accident is enough to get Vince to tone things down.  Someone making a mistake on a “high risk manoeuvre” is going to be a terrible thing, but it’d be one hell of a wake up call.

 

Secondly, we could see more matches like the Big Show v Shane match I mentioned earlier; the whole match is just getting to the bit people want to see.  Who cares that they are going to spend ten minutes punching each other around and actually wrestling when you know that someone’s going to be doing a major fall?  You honestly want the entire WWF to be like that match?  Really?  REALLY?  Thought not.

 

nikjohns

[Guest nikjohns]

30+ views and no replies?

 

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I found all of these high spot matches for the last two years with no trouble (thanks to rajahwwf.com). The only one I am unsure of is Judgment Day 2001...

 

Vengeance (December, 2001) - Undertaker pinned Rob Van Dam to become the new hardcore champion.

 

Survivor Series (2001) - Dudley Boyz defeated Hardy Boyz to unify the WWF and WCW tag team titles.

 

No Mercy (October, 2001) - Edge defeated Christian in a ladder match to become the new Intercontinental champion.

 

Unforgiven (September, 2001) - Rob Van Dam defeated Chris Jericho to retain the WWF hardcore title.

 

Summerslam 2001 - Rob Van Dam beat Jeff in a ladder match to become the new Hardcore champion.

 

Invasion (July, 2001) - Rob Van Dam defeated Jeff Hardy to win the WWF Hardcore title.

 

King Of The Ring 2001 (June, 2001) - Kurt Angle defeated Shane McMahon in a Street Fight.

 

Judgment Day (May, 2001) - Kane defeated Triple H in a Steel Chain match to win the WWF IC title.??

 

Backlash (April, 2001) - Shane McMahon defeated The Big Show in a Last Man Standing Match.

 

Wrestlemania X-Seven - Kane pinned the Big Show in a Triple Threat match with Raven to capture the Hardcore title

 

No Way Out (February, 2001) - The Dudley Boyz defeated Edge & Christian and Undertaker & Kane in a Table Match to retain the WWF Tag Titles.

 

Royal Rumble (2001) - Chris Jericho defeated Chris Benoit in a Ladder Match to become WWF IC Champ

 

Armageddon (December, 2000) - Kurt Angle pinned the Rock in a Six Man Hell in a Cell match, which also had Triple H, Steve Austin, Undertaker and Rikishi, to retain his World title.

 

Survivor Series (2000) - The Hardy Boyz & Dudley Boyz defeated the RTC, Edge & Christian, with Jeff Hardy surviving

 

No Mercy (October, 2000) - Chris Jericho beat X-Pac in a Cage Match

 

Unforgiven (September, 2000) - The Hardy Boys beat Christian & Edge in a Cage Match to become the WWF Tag Team Champs.

 

Summerslam 2000 - Edge & Christian beat The Dudley Boyz and The Hardy Boyz in a TLC match to retain the WWF Tag Titles.

 

Fully Loaded (July, 2000) - Val Venis pinned Rikishi in a Cage Match to retain his IC title

 

King Of The Ring 2000 (June, 2000) - D-X (Road Dogg, X-Pac & Tori) beat The Dudley Boyz in a handicap table/dumpster match.

 

Judgment Day (May, 2000) - X-Pac & Road Dogg defeated The Dudley Boyz in a Table mach

 

Backlash (April, 2000) - Crash defeated Perry Saturn, Hardcore Holly, Tazz, Matt and Jeff Hardy to retain his Hardcore Title

 

Wrestlemania 2000 - Edge & Christian defeated The Hardys and the Dudleys in a triangle ladder match to win the tag titles

 

No Way Out (February, 2000) - Triple H defeated Cactus Jack in a Hell in a Cell to end Mick Foley's career

 

Royal Rumble (2000) - Hardy Boyz defeated Dudley Boyz in a Table Match

[Guest Kinetic]

The thing is that the WWF has already significantly cut back on dangerous high spots.  The Rock-Undertaker doesn't count; it was pre-taped, and backstage where both participants could ensure that no mistake was made.  With the exception of anything involving Jeff Hardy and Rob Van Dam, there really haven't been a whole lot of total "Holy shit, that looked dangerous" moments in the WWF since KoTR 2001.  Chalk that up to a lot of what you mentioned, mainly increased number of key injuries.  This may have been a concern for awhile, but it's more or less been taken care of.

[Guest nikjohns]

<<The Rock-Undertaker doesn't count; it was pre-taped, and backstage where both participants could ensure that no mistake was made.>>

 

Watch through again - it was all done in one shot, from the start of the Rock's interview.  The only thing that was stopping it from messing up was Taker's experience of the move.  

 

<<With the exception of anything involving Jeff Hardy and Rob Van Dam, there really haven't been a whole lot of total "Holy shit, that looked dangerous" moments in the WWF since KoTR 2001.>>

 

6 whole months ago, and you discount the two biggest high spot people.

[Guest Lil Naitch]

Actually, I sort of agree, in certain cases. I always wonder what crazy bump Shane will take next time. But a Tombstone on a car is a shocker that I wasn't expecting. and it isn't killing the move, it's putting a bit more oomph with it.

[Guest InigoMontoya]

Doing a tombstone piledriver on a car doesn't make the move any more dangerous... plus I think the move would keep all it's power... as long as next week it's not on to a chair on a car roof.

I see where you're coming from, and totally agree. Could this be one of the things that dragged ECW down? They done the craziest stuff, but they were shooting themselves in the foot. For a few years, I'm sure they would have looked a lot more interesting to people than the WWF, and ECW fans probably never went back to the WWF with the same anticipation as they did before the ECW era.

In the long run though, nothing can replace pure talent.

[Guest nikjohns]

<<Doing a tombstone piledriver on a car doesn't make the move any more dangerous>>

 

Er, yes it does.  Ring = bouncy, with some give.

Car = solid.

 

The move will keep its power as long as the move is kept as it is and not made more 2 Xtreme every week.

[Guest Goodear]

** Er, yes it does.  Ring = bouncy, with some give.

Car = solid. **

 

Well the hood or roof of a car does have a bit of give to be honest.  I mean, I'm sure its not pleasant, but that would be better than taking a tombstone on the parking lot floor.  Anyway, the piledriver has turned into such a "I'm trying to injure you now" type of move in the WWF that I don't see it being damaged through being done on a car or the concrete floor as Austin did to Angle a few months ago.

[Guest alexcc79]

I think your essay was wonderful.  It is true that seeing a great bump now isn't as impressive as it used to be.  But maybe we can take it one step further.  Maybe Shawn Micheals was a precursor to the wwf incarnations of Foley.  Shawn was taking sick-ass bumps in his matches.  Those early bumps were similar to the bumps that Foley used to take before 98.  Granted, Foley did take sicker bumps until he got into the wwf.  Foley did not want his reputation as the world's sicket bumper taken away by a 220 pound pretty boy so he flew off the top of the cage.  Maybe it was Shawn Micheals fault all along.  

 

I still love the sick bumps, but I agree they are too frequent.  Taking the Hardyz off of tv has helped, but taking them away fro RVD hasn't.  People who know how to take the sick bumps should be allowed to, as it increases the flow of the match.  If RVD can get thrown from the ring into the second row, then dammit plant someone there to catch him.  It gets the crowd more into the match.  Sick bumps also increase ratings as people tune in to see if someone can top it.  The secret is not to do it every week.  Spread out the sickest bumps.  Put a few on free tv, a few on ppv and make people tune in to see it.  ECW's mistake was that they had bumps like that all the time.  People felt that they could tune in at any time to see those bumps.  The wwf now needs to increase the bumps to where they can come at any moment, and people know that.  Now they just happen every once in a while and people don't tune in with any anticipation.  Increase them to increase anticipation to increase ratings.  Then pay-off.  Have Jeff Hardy do a swanton from the rafters through a table set on fire with tacks under it.  Sick bumps are one thing that draw.  Don't put the same wrestler's life on the line every show.  Spread out the bumps amongst shows and wrestlers.  Give the wwf that can't miss appeal again.

 

Bumps by no means will heal everything with the wwf, but a few might add freshness and anticipation to the mix which is a great start to rebuilding the dynasty.

[Guest J*ingus]

The thing is, Foley had been doing crazy stunts for years, many of them on WCW shows watched by millions.  HIAC is remembered simply because:

 

1. By that point, Foley had been slowing down, and it had been a while since he'd done anything truly insane, so the people weren't expecting it;

 

2. Summer of '98 was just when the WWF picked up a couple million new viewers, who had never seen Foley do his trademark stuff before;

 

3. The first fall off the cage is what the match was remembered for, and it was pretty spectacular.  However, it had the effect of making the second (much more dangerous) fall and the thumbtacks seem like icing on the cake, and not huge spots in their own right;  

 

4. Simply put, there have been bumps that big before.  New Jack has done dives from that height many times, and he usually lands on a person, not a table.  Foley's had the advantage of being seen on a live WWF PPV, and since then has been replayed in one form or another on almost eveery WWF TV show since then.

[Guest Brian]

I think Foley's pre-WWF work was more dangerous bump-wise then his WWF work, and I'm not just talking about IWA.

[Guest Annoyed Grunt]

I found all of these high spot matches for the last two years with no trouble (thanks to rajahwwf.com). The only one I am unsure of is Judgment Day 2001...

 

Judgment Day (May, 2001) - Kane defeated Triple H in a Steel Chain match to win the WWF IC title.??

Trust me, that's not much of a highspot match at all.  Kurt and Benoit had a 2/3 falls match where the third fall was a ladder match, so I'd say that was the highspot match.

[Guest DrEvil]

Totally true, the problem with sick bumps is their frequency and the raising of the bar. Last week Jeff Hardy did a swanton off the cage, so this week he's got to do a swanton off the cage through a table, then next week he's got to do a swanton off a cage through a flaming table.  Then what?? If they decrease the frequency of a sick bump, and stop raising the bar, then we can see one and it will truly be a "holy snit" moment.  I don't know if there would be an increase in ratings every week just in anticipation of a bump, but it could bump them up a point or two for an advertised Hardy-RVD bout.

 

The tombstone on the car was actually a well done spot.  Taker picked him up and made sure he had him positioned correctly and the camera work was perfect.  Rock's head probably missed the roof by inches and you couldn't tell at all because the view was blocked by Taker's legs.  It was the perfect time to bring out a piledriver just to drive a point home in this building fued.

[Guest nikjohns]

<<I always wonder what crazy bump Shane will take next time.>>

 

If you see a Shane O'Mac match, a Hardyz match or an RVD match on PPV, you know it will be a spotfest.  Thus killing the rest of the match as they build to said spots.

 

Re:  Tombstone

 

I am willing to concede that that one move is not going to kill the Tombstone permanently, as long as it is just a one off.

 

alexcc makes some excellent points, especially "I think your essay was wonderful."

 

Grunt - thanks for the clarification