The Keltner List

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

1. Was he ever regarded as the best player in baseball? Did anybody, while he was active, ever suggest that he was the best player in baseball?

 

It depends on how sympathetic a writer you can find. I am sure more than a few suggested Mattingly was the best player in baseball in the mid-80s. Mattingly never led the league in Win Shares, but no player consistantly beat him, except perhaps Wade Boggs.

 

2. Was he the best player on his team?

 

Yes. From 1984-89, Mattingly was the best player on the New York Yankees.

 

3. Was he the best player in baseball at his position? Was he the best player in the league at his position?

 

For two years in 1985-86, Mattingly was the best first baseman in baseball. Afterwards, he was eclipsed by Will Clark in the majors, and Mark McGwire in the American League.

 

4. Did he have an impact on a number of pennant races?

 

In 1985, Mattingly slugged .611, .737, and .684 in the last three months as the Yankees fell two games short of the AL East crown. Mattingly's huge second half performance earned him the MVP award. In 1988, Mattingly hit .328 in Spetember in another close pennant race. Mattingly was a slow starter, hitting 272/341/395 in April over his career.

 

5. Was he good enough that he could play regularly after passing his prime?

 

No. Mattingly retired at the age of 34.

 

6. Is he the very best baseball player in history who is not in the Hall of Fame?

 

No.

 

7. Are most players who have comparable statistics in the Hall of Fame?

 

No, of the ten most similar players, two are in the Hall, four are ineligible (and unlikely), and four are out.

 

8. Do the player's numbers meet Hall of Fame standards?

 

Very close. Mattingly scores 23 on the Black Ink test, 111 on the Gray Ink test, and meets 34% of HOF Standards.

 

9. Is there any evidence to suggest that the player was significantly better or worse than is suggested by his statistics?

 

Mattingly won nine consecutive Gold Gloves.

 

10. Is he the best player at his position who is eligible for the Hall of Fame?

 

Mattingly is one of three strong First Basemen, along with Keith Hernandez and Dick Allen. It is a close call.

 

11. How many MVP-type seasons did he have? Did he ever win an MVP award? If not, how many times was he close?

 

Mattingly won the MVP award in 1985, finished 2nd in 1986, and in the top ten in 1984 and '87.

 

12. How many All-Star-type seasons did he have? How many All-Star games did he play in? Did most of the players who played in this many All-Star games go into the Hall of Fame?

 

Mattingly played in six All-Star games.

 

13. If this man were the best player on his team, would it be likely that the team could win the pennant?

 

In his prime years of 1985 and '86, yes. Otherwise, I doubt it.

 

14. What impact did the player have on baseball history? Was he responsible for any rule changes? Did he introduce any new equipment? Did he change the game in any way?

 

Mattingly is responsible for baseball's most lasting image of George Steinbrenner, who insisted Mattingly shave off his sideburns.

 

15. Did the player uphold the standards of sportsmanship and character that the Hall of Fame, in its written guidelines, instructs us to consider?

 

Yes.

 

Conclusion: Mattingly provides an interesting case. He was very good during his prime, but his prime was incredibly short. I expected to reject Mattingly out of hand, but that is hard to do. Ultimately, I cannot endorse him. Keith Hernandez had a longer career, and an equal OPS+, and he's not in. Dick Allen was twice the hitter, dominated a few years, longer, and he is not in. I would not be surprised to see a future veterans' committee elect Mattingly, but I don't see it at the present time.

[Guest Anglesault]

I can absolutely see the VC electing him.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Depends on what they do with the format. I'm honestly concerned the current format is unsuitable for selecting any candidates. That won't last, because no candidates = no interest in the Hall. If the new veterans committee fails to elect a candidate within three elections, they'll change it.

[Guest Anglesault]

As for Hernandez, wouldn't question 15 be a real problem?

[Precious Roy 0]

I would vote in Mattingly, but he was also my favorite player as a kid so I'm hardly impartial

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

As for Hernandez, wouldn't question 15 be a real problem?

Yes it would. The question is how much stock you put into it. A similar problem presents itself with Tim Raines and Dave Parker. I do not believe it keeps any of these men out of the Hall of Fame on its own, but it deserves consideration.

[Guest Anglesault]

I do not believe it keeps any of these men out of the Hall of Fame on its own, but it deserves consideration.

I can see it being a "tie breaker" to certain voters.

[Precious Roy 0]

Is Ty Cobb in? Nuff said.

[Guest Anglesault]

Is Ty Cobb in? Nuff said.

Ty Cobb was a part of the cocaine scandal?

 

Fuck, he gets around.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

I do not believe it keeps any of these men out of the Hall of Fame on its own, but it deserves consideration.

I can see it being a "tie breaker" to certain voters.

That's very possible, although I would think those who would count the cocaine use about Keith Hernandez already have preconceived notions about his HOF worthiness. In any case, Hernandez has never earned more than 52 HOF votes, so he is not even close. Hernandez garnered just 22 votes last year. He needed 19 just to stay on the ballot.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Is Ty Cobb in? Nuff said.

For Cobb, its a case of the good (.367 lifetime batting average) outweighing the bad. The HOF guidelines don't say that being a model citizen is a requirement. Its just a consideration. Players who would have a serious strike against them in HOF arguments would be Albert Belle, Dick Allen, and Hal Chase, among others.

[Precious Roy 0]

Cocaine SCHMOCAINE! Players get in for what they do on the field, the hall of fame is full of assholes. Hernandez making it or not shouldn't hinge on that.

 

Will Bonds, Sheff, Sosa and Big Mac be out for their widely agreed upon performance enhancement?

 

*EDIT* And the only hall of fame Hernandez should be in is the Television HOF for his guest spot on Seinfeld, but whatever recreational drugs he did is neither here nor there

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Its worth noting that I'm just about the last person to let sportsmanship exclude a player from the Hall. To me, it depends whether the behaviour effected the player and his team's performance on the field.

[EVIL~! alkeiper 0]

Will Bonds, Sheff, Sosa and Big Mac be out for their widely agreed upon performance enhancement?

 

The supplements McGwire took were legal. As for Bonds, Sheffield and Sosa, there is no solid proof of their drug use, and Bonds would have made the Hall if he retired five years ago.