Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted September 13, 2004 I actually had a bit of a revelation today, when I realized that Mike Sherman has had more wins in his first 4 seasons than any other coach in Green Bay's long and storied past, even moreso than Vince Lombardi and Mike Holmgren, both of whom won championships, and have streets named after them in Green Bay. Yet he doesn't get nearly as much credit for what he's done as the aforementioned coaches, obviously because of Green Bay's lack of success in the playoffs as well as how both of those men turned the Packers into a great team immediately. Yet was Lombardi really THAT great of a coach? We all know he was a hell of a motivator and a leader, but isn't listed among the top of the winning percentage list, despite having a team of Hall of Famers. When we think of dynasties, we think of Chuck Noll's Steelers, or Bill Walsh's 49ers, and so how do men like Vince Lombardi, Joe Gibbs, John Madden, hell even Marty fucking Shittenheimer get mentioned as amazing coaches? What did Dan Reeves do that was so outstanding besides lose 5 Super Bowls? Is a championship solely the reason for great coaching? Fuck, Barry Switzer did it. Mike Ditka had one great year and did it. What makes or breaks a great coach? What gains the respect of the sport their profession is in? Is it consistency? Is it the ability to lead or motivate? Is it creating a unique system under which players blossom under and dominate a league, like Walsh's West Coast offense or the Cover 2 system, or even the 46 scheme? What is it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MikeSC Report post Posted September 13, 2004 Sadly, it's LARGELY based on media perception. Whom the media says is a great coach is, by definition, a great coach. Heck, why isn't Jeff Fisher one of the big name coaches in the league (he's clearly beneath Mike Martz-level pub --- for reasons I'll NEVER fathom), considering how consistently good his offensively-less-than-gifted Titans have been? -=Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoCalMike 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2004 Well take a guy like Joe Gibbs who along with his coaching staff, have made all pro careers out of backups from other teams, or middle of the road guys. Look at the difference in the offensive line after just one training camp. This same line under Spurrier that couldn't protect a penny in their pocket, provided tremendous protection all game long yesterday. When it is the SAME GUYS, but are suddenly playing like pro bowlers, you have to look at the coaching. Another consideration. Walsh and Gibbs in the 80's both CREATED offenses that are still running rampant today. The West Coast offense, and well, I don't even know if Gibbs offense has an offical name, but it is very similar to what the Chiefs and the Rams run. There is a huge difference between running a proven offense, and coming up with your own entire playbook. This is what seperates a Walsh or Gibbs from an Andy Reid, or a Bill Belliceck. I mean lets face it, Belliceck is touted NOW as some kind of genius, but I don't remember hearing things from ESPN like, "oh he is great, it is the horrible team" from his years with the Browns. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vitamin X Report post Posted September 13, 2004 Well take a guy like Joe Gibbs who along with his coaching staff, have made all pro careers out of backups from other teams, or middle of the road guys. Look at the difference in the offensive line after just one training camp. This same line under Spurrier that couldn't protect a penny in their pocket, provided tremendous protection all game long yesterday. When it is the SAME GUYS, but are suddenly playing like pro bowlers, you have to look at the coaching. One game does not a Pro Bowl Offensive Line make. Let's see how they hold up against other defense, although Tampa Bay's is nothing to sneeze at. Another consideration. Walsh and Gibbs in the 80's both CREATED offenses that are still running rampant today. The West Coast offense, and well, I don't even know if Gibbs offense has an offical name, but it is very similar to what the Chiefs and the Rams run. There is a huge difference between running a proven offense, and coming up with your own entire playbook. You sure you don't have Joe Gibbs confused with Dick Vermeil here, by any chance? This is what seperates a Walsh or Gibbs from an Andy Reid, or a Bill Belliceck. I mean lets face it, Belliceck is touted NOW as some kind of genius, but I don't remember hearing things from ESPN like, "oh he is great, it is the horrible team" from his years with the Browns. Well he never won a championship with the Browns, and you can't disagree that he didn't get a hell of an experience working under Parcells all those years. He's obviously learned how to make a winner, and even the years he coached them, they weren't exactly atrocious or anything. Not to mention the whole Art Modell moving the franchise to Baltimore thing being a terrible distraction. And as for Reid, he's part of the Holmgren family, who spurned Steve Mariucci and Mike Sherman as well, and Holmgren himself was part of Bill Walsh's staff. So I can understand that, but Philadelphia has been right up there with everyone since Andy Reid took over. Random off-topic question: A funny scenario popped into my head earlier. What if the NFC Championship was Vikings-Eagles and the AFC Championship was Browns-Bills? Sure, maybe then you'd have the Vikings beat the Eagles and meet the Bills in the Super Bowl (who'd win on a last minute comeback in Cleveland, of course), but then what? The Apocalypse? Would we have had Chicago meet the Red Sox in the World Series also? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoCalMike 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2004 You sure you don't have Joe Gibbs confused with Dick Vermeil here, by any chance? Umm, yes I am sure. Exact even. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NoCalMike 0 Report post Posted September 13, 2004 Well take a guy like Joe Gibbs who along with his coaching staff, have made all pro careers out of backups from other teams, or middle of the road guys. Look at the difference in the offensive line after just one training camp. This same line under Spurrier that couldn't protect a penny in their pocket, provided tremendous protection all game long yesterday. When it is the SAME GUYS, but are suddenly playing like pro bowlers, you have to look at the coaching. One game does not a Pro Bowl Offensive Line make. Let's see how they hold up against other defense, although Tampa Bay's is nothing to sneeze at. I know.....I am just saying that the differences shown thus far are resounding. The response by the players themselves is unbelievable too. The way Chris Samuels basically made Simeon Rice his personal bitch in one-on-ones, when last year Rice got three sacks.......stuff like that points to coaching. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
