Best Match of the Decade So Far?

[Guest NiTR0]

Why do people go on boards and say ''its an opinion''? Why debate if you are reluctant to defend what you are saying instead of just saying ''its an opinion''.

 

Anyway, back to the topic

 

Rock/Austin for me. My reasons are for the same in why Ray liked it, but I just love how Austin's character progresses throughout the whole match as he gets desperate and desperate as the match goes along. This was Austin's match

 

Other matches which I don't think are the best, but should at least get a mention are Rock/Jericho from No Mercy. Save from the table spot, I'd say the match was pretty flawless and had a nice story of Jericho being desperate to win ''the big one'' with Rock not thinking he's worthy or good enough to do it. Add the heat factor and you've got yourself a **** match.

 

Angle/Benoit from Royal Rumble is a match that I have found new love for this week. I hold it in high esteem, but wouldn't say its either guys best match this decade. I feel the No Mercy tag match was better and for singles matches, Angle/Austin from SS01 was stronger as was Benoit/Austin, SmackDown!, 31/5/01.

[UseTheSledgehammerUh 0]

I thought the end of WM 17's main event killed it.

 

"The ultimate rebel needed Vince's help...fantastic storyline!"

 

Bullshit. Austin always was one-up on Rock. WM 15. IYH-DX. Backlash 99. Now he needs VINCE to save him? Lame.

 

Plus, 50 chairshots to bludgeon a guy and pin him = Minus a Star from me.

 

AND IT WAS DONE IN TEXAS. The "drama" (and failed heel turn) was negated by the crowd, who loved every minute of it.

 

Still, a **** bout, but highly overrated.

[Guest Ray]

I thought the end of WM 17's main event killed it.

 

"The ultimate rebel needed Vince's help...fantastic storyline!"

 

Bullshit. Austin always was one-up on Rock. WM 15. IYH-DX. Backlash 99. Now he needs VINCE to save him? Lame.

You miss a MAJOR element here - Rock is a much bigger star in 2001 than he was then. Austin whipped his ass at IYH-DX? Rock was a mid-carder at the time. Austin was still well above Rock in 1999 too. Why is Austin so desperate and paranoid? Because in the year he was out with an injury, The Rock had surpassed him as THE top star in the world.

 

Plus, 50 chairshots to bludgeon a guy and pin him = Minus a Star from me.

The flurry of chairshots were beautiful. It's there to show Austin's final descent into madness. Rock survives everything Austin throws at him. Austin thinks "what the hell do I have to do to beat this guy?" and just SNAPS. It's great dramatic storytelling.

 

Still, a **** bout, but highly overrated.

It's actually highly underrated.

[Papacita 0]

But outside of the loss to HHH at No Way Out (which was downplayed a lot following the PPV), Austin didn't really show too much weakness or vulnerability going into WMX7. Add in his history with the Rock, and it really doesn't make all that much sense for him to go to Vince for help.

 

It was a great match, yes, and I liked the chair finish too. I just think it would've been more effective (and believable) without the McMahon run-in. If they felt the need to align those two, they should've saved it for the Austin/Rock rematch.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

It was a great match, yes, and I liked the chair finish too. I just think it would've been more effective (and believable) without the McMahon run-in. If they felt the need to align those two, they should've saved it for the Austin/Rock rematch.

And it's that very run-in which made it very anti-climactic at the end for me. As you said, if they had taken out the run-in, the drama of the near falls would have been more than enough the make the match dramatic, and the repeated chairshots alone would have made Austin seem that much more psychotic; less is more. Adding Vince was overkill, and made no sense, for the very reason that UseTheSledgehammerUh said. With Austin being the prototypical rebel, why would he rely on Vince, or anyone else, for help ? Surely it would make more sense for the rebel to do it himself ? A rebel isn't much of a rebel of he has to use someone else's help to beat his enemy.

[Guest NiTR0]

But outside of the loss to HHH at No Way Out (which was downplayed a lot following the PPV), Austin didn't really show too much weakness or vulnerability going into WMX7. Add in his history with the Rock, and it really doesn't make all that much sense for him to go to Vince for help.

Austin did show vunerability. He was soooo desperate to win the WWE Championship. If you see the sit-down promo between JR, Austin and Rock, he shows a side of him that we hadn't seen in Austin before. We never before saw Austin have a burning desire like this to win the WWE Championship. And as for Vince's help, Austin knew that he'd be protected by the WWE Hierchy (Vince McMahon), and he'd have his Championship protected around his waiste without much trouble. To call for Vince's help just put the icing on the cake of him being so desperate to be WWE Champion.

[Papacita 0]

But what happened to Austin going into the show that would make him think he couldn't beat the Rock? He won the Rumble, he had beaten Rock everytime they fought. Perhaps they could've followed the HHH loss by having Austin start wondering if he still had it, but they didn't, and as a result, Austin came into the show looking just as strong as the Rock, and given the nature of Austin's character, it takes a pretty big leap in logic to explain why Austin would run to McMahon prior to the show. They should've just gone with the chairshot finish and left it at that. It fits with the storyline they had going in, plus it wouldn't have been as blatant a heel move, so it wouldn't look as bad with the crowd cheering him afterward.

[Guest Ray]

But outside of the loss to HHH at No Way Out (which was downplayed a lot following the PPV), Austin didn't really show too much weakness or vulnerability going into WMX7. Add in his history with the Rock, and it really doesn't make all that much sense for him to go to Vince for help.

You underestimate what paranoia can do to a man. The story isn't Austin is weak, it's that he's paranoid. A year of isolation while being injured...

 

It was a great match, yes, and I liked the chair finish too. I just think it would've been more effective (and believable) without the McMahon run-in. If they felt the need to align those two, they should've saved it for the Austin/Rock rematch.

McMahon's presence is necessary to drive home the heel turn. Austin joining Vince is the one thing the fans are sure he'd never do. This is Austin - the badass to end all badasses. The guy who's whipped ass and raised hell for years. But he's been driven to paranoia and is willing to do anything to get the title back.

 

And it's that very run-in which made it very anti-climactic at the end for me. As you said, if they had taken out the run-in, the drama of the near falls would have been more than enough the make the match dramatic, and the repeated chairshots alone would have made Austin seem that much more psychotic; less is more. Adding Vince was overkill, and made no sense, for the very reason that UseTheSledgehammerUh said.

Again, they're turning Austin heel. Austin beating Rock with a chair isn't enough. Him selling his soul to Vince is needed, to show us that clearly this man has changed.

 

With Austin being the prototypical rebel, why would he rely on Vince, or anyone else, for help ? Surely it would make more sense for the rebel to do it himself ? A rebel isn't much of a rebel of he has to use someone else's help to beat his enemy.

He's turning heel. He's no longer a rebel. He's now paranoid and obsessed. It's a key change in character.

 

But what happened to Austin going into the show that would make him think he couldn't beat the Rock?

Seeing Rock surpass him as the top man in the WWF obviously. And the fact that he was out for a year with an injury. He no longer wants to take any risks. He no longer wants to be the badass who needs no help. He wants the title at all costs.

 

he had beaten Rock everytime they fought.

Which was two years before this match, when Rock was beneath him, when Rock was a heel and nowhere near as big as he became in 2000.

 

Perhaps they could've followed the HHH loss by having Austin start wondering if he still had it, but they didn't, and as a result, Austin came into the show looking just as strong as the Rock, and given the nature of Austin's character, it takes a pretty big leap in logic to explain why Austin would run to McMahon prior to the show.

Not really, considering Rock surpassed Austin in popularity in 2000, considering Austin is coming off an injury and wants to take no chances. It's character development.

 

They should've just gone with the chairshot finish and left it at that. It fits with the storyline they had going in, plus it wouldn't have been as blatant a heel move, so it wouldn't look as bad with the crowd cheering him afterward.

Again, they're turning Austin heel. A chairshot isn't going to turn Austin heel. The whole point here is to turn Austin heel on the biggest stage in the world.

[Guest Monday Night Jericho]

You miss a MAJOR element here - Rock is a much bigger star in 2001 than he was then. Austin whipped his ass at IYH-DX? Rock was a mid-carder at the time. Austin was still well above Rock in 1999 too. Why is Austin so desperate and paranoid? Because in the year he was out with an injury, The Rock had surpassed him as THE top star in the world.

 

Ray is right here, back in the late 90s Austin was the "ace" of the company and the Rock was bellow him. In 2001 Rock was not only on his level - but was maybe superior. Throughout the X7 match Austin uses this as the main narrative, laying many smart psychological touches enriching the match's story.

[Guest Black Lightning]

With Austin being the prototypical rebel, why would he rely on Vince, or anyone else, for help ? Surely it would make more sense for the rebel to do it himself ? A rebel isn't much of a rebel of he has to use someone else's help to beat his enemy.

That's exactly the point. To elaborate on (and somewhat repeat, I guess) what Ray said, Austin is a changed man going into this match. He had been the rebel for years, and it led him to neck surgery. He was also a rebel when he came back, and - outside of the Rumble - didn't really accomplish much of note. After all, one month prior to Mania, he lost to HHH; a guy who had been a midcarder for much of Austin's uber hot streak. Add all of that together, as well as the implied element of Austin watching Rock, his former rival, surpass him for nearly a year without Austin being able to do a thing about it, and it's entirely plausible that he would solicit help from someone powerful.

 

A once unstoppable badass second guessing himself is a key part of the proverbial foundation of the story, and one of the main elements that make the match such a deep one.

 

EDIT: Yes, I voted Austin/Rock.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

While you both make good points as to why Austin aligning with Vince makes sense from a storyline standpoint, for me, it was just too much of a change from the Stone Cold persona. I would say that applied to a lot of people too, because the Stone Cold heel turn was a disaster, that pretty much everyone in WWE, and even Stone Cold himself, accepts. Maybe if they had made the change over the course of a month or so, it would have worked better, but I doubt that.

[Guest Ray]

While you both make good points as to why Austin aligning with Vince makes sense from a storyline standpoint, for me, it was just too much of a change from the Stone Cold persona. I would say that applied to a lot of people too, because the Stone Cold heel turn was a disaster, that pretty much everyone in WWE, and even Stone Cold himself, accepts. Maybe if they had made the change over the course of a month or so, it would have worked better, but I doubt that.

Austin's heel turn did not fail because it was too much change in his character. Actually he was returning to what he originally was - a cunning, ruthless heel. It failed because it was so poorly booked *after* Wrestlemania. You have one of the biggest faces ever turn heel. It should shock the entire promotion for weeks. But what do they do? They completely divert attention from the shock of Austin turning heel the very next night and make him HHH's lackey, cutting the legs off heel Austin before he can even get started and making HHH the top heel again (gee, I wonder how THAT happened?). Then Taker and Kane get the big push against them and NO ONE wants to see that, and the ratings collapse.

[Guest Staravenger]

If the HHH teaming didn't kill it completely, the comedy segments in most of June probably did. Sure, they were entertaining, but when you have a ruthless heel who will do anything to win, you don't have him singing campfire songs and play the hugging game with Kurt Angle.

 

I didn't notice until now, but FOUR HHH matches are in the poll, and COMBINED, are losing to Austin/Rock WM X-Seven.

[Toshiaki Koala 0]

I didn't notice until now, but FOUR HHH matches are in the poll, and COMBINED, are losing to Austin/Rock WM X-Seven.

Yeah. ain't it great?

 

I actually voted for HHH v. Foley at the Rumble, BTW.

[MrRant 0]

HHH vs SCSA at No Way Out.

 

Mostly because I was there bitches.

[Guest curry_man2002]

I think you people look to much into matches and should just enjoy a wrestling match for what it is.

 

I vote for austin vs rock because there are few rest holds and its just an action packed entertaining way to spend 30mins

[Tim Cooke 0]

Ah the old "you look too much into matches" statement.

 

The dumbest statement on the internet.

 

Tim

[Guest Ray]

I think you people look to much into matches and should just enjoy a wrestling match for what it is.

What makes a better/more interesting discussion -

 

"Austin/Rock is great because it has no restholds and is action packed entertainment."

 

or

 

"Austin/Rock is great because it has a wonderfully rich story revolving around Austin's paranoia and desperation, which resulted from being injured for a year and watching The Rock surpass him as the top WWF wrestler, which causes him to do the unthinkable to get what he wants."

 

?

 

I know which I'd choose.