The OaO Presidential Debate II Thread

[chaosrage 0]

Is it just me or does Kerry never even attempt to answer how he's going to get other countries to fight for the wrong war at the wrong time, no matter how many times Bush brings it up?

[CBright7831 0]

Tonight, I realized that George W. Bush is probably going to lose the upcoming election.

[Guest GreatOne]

What, did 'The Plan!' put Kerry over the top or something?

[CBright7831 0]

It just feels that way.

 

I'm like John Kerry himself, I say it, I can't explain it.

 

But it just feel like we're getting ready to see a defeat for George W. Bush.

[Guest MikeSC]

Dude, that was awesome. It fit right into the debate, and it implied that you've done that millions of times.

I wouldn't expect you to recognize how weak it was.

 

Thus, I cleared it up.

-=Mike

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

Is it just me or does Kerry never even attempt to answer how he's going to get other countries to fight for the wrong war at the wrong time, no matter how many times Bush brings it up?

well.. didn't the major combat operations end in Iraq?

 

Wouldn't these nations be participating in the reconstruction efforts.. stuff that gets Iraq on their feet.

 

I think we have the potential to get some nations in to relieve the burden on America. 87% of Coalition troops in Iraq are Americans. Not to bash the nations there, because many of them are giving as much as they can, but we can do better and build on this coalition. I think the closest thing to a Muslim-majority state helping us in Iraq is Azerbaijan. There's Muslim states hostile to the idea of rebuilding Iraq, but there have to be more that would welcome a stable Iraq, especially for the purpose of trade. Although i see how some of the countries aren't fans of democracy, but I'm sure there's willing states.

 

Anyways, even if the war was a bad idea, that doesn't mean we shouldn't help Iraq right now. We should make the best of this situation in Iraq.

[AndrewTS 0]

Rob: that sig pic is cute and all, but thanks to JR I can't get the thought of George W. Dudley out of my head...

[Guest MikeSC]

Is it just me or does Kerry never even attempt to answer how he's going to get other countries to fight for the wrong war at the wrong time, no matter how many times Bush brings it up?

well.. didn't the major combat operations end in Iraq?

 

Wouldn't these nations be participating in the reconstruction efforts.. stuff that gets Iraq on their feet.

So, give the spoils to the people who refused to participate?

 

Umm, I think not.

I think we have the potential to get some nations in to relieve the burden on America. 87% of Coalition troops in Iraq are Americans. Not to bash the nations there, because many of them are giving as much as they can, but we can do better and build on this coalition.

And who can change it? France does not exactly have a military worth a damn. Ditto Germany.

 

And, rest assured, Kerry's "Trading our young for their young in body bags" is not going to come close to really generating a desire to work.

I think the closest thing to a Muslim-majority state helping us in Iraq is Azerbaijan. There's Muslim states hostile to the idea of rebuilding Iraq, but there have to be more that would welcome a stable Iraq, especially for the purpose of trade. Although i see how some of the countries aren't fans of democracy, but I'm sure there's willing states.

And I genuinely don't see it. A democratic Iraq is the ONE thing Muslim theocracies do not want. Many of them have pretty potent opposition groups (Iran, in particular) and a democratic country in the region will only inspire them.

[Rob E Dangerously 0]

So, give the spoils to the people who refused to participate?

 

Umm, I think not.

 

I was refering more to troops, medics and special forces. Not business contracts.

 

But if you were refering to troops also. Then I guess that's bad news for Armenia, who will be joining us in Iraq soon. I guess they're getting spoils after doing nothing.

 

Then again, I'd like it if there were individuals, from where-ever, who would work to help Iraq and help make it peaceful. It's a tough job too.

 

And who can change it? France does not exactly have a military worth a damn. Ditto Germany.

 

It's too short-sighted to just focus on two nations. I'm sure there's capable troops out there to relieve the burden on American troops.

 

And, rest assured, Kerry's "Trading our young for their young in body bags" is not going to come close to really generating a desire to work.

 

The full quote, which the Washington Times doesn't mention, is "Now, does that mean allies are going to trade their young for our young in body bags? I know they're not, and I understand that. What it means is that we have to get them to take on different roles"

 

Yeah.. nations won't be limited to just troops and yeah.. nations won't be tempted if their only option involves a huge risk.

 

And I genuinely don't see it. A democratic Iraq is the ONE thing Muslim theocracies do not want. Many of them have pretty potent opposition groups (Iran, in particular) and a democratic country in the region will only inspire them.

 

The exceptions are out there. Jordan would be a useful ally. I know the Saudis won't do anything. But then again, what about a nation like Egypt. They're a nation which we give huge amounts to aid to. There's ways to persuade them. Even if it may inflame some of the more terroristic groups. How about Turkey too?

[AndrewTS 0]

"But then again, what about a nation like Egypt."

 

There was a news story last night about a terrorist attack in Egypt in which al Quaida was suspected, so perhaps they'd be open to suggestions...

[Guest INXS]

That was the media jumping the gun..Al Qaeda aren't connected..

[Guest INXS]

That was the media jumping the gun..Al Qaeda aren't connected..

[Guest INXS]

That was the media jumping the gun..Al Qaeda aren't connected..

[Guest Wildbomb 4:20]

So important, it must be stated three times.

 

Anyways...

 

The problem with getting a Muslim-led democratic society organized is that there are numerous countries in the region that despise them. Mind you, these are not just the terrorists of al-Qaeda, but are also some of the larger monarchies and dictatorships in the area. Then there's the whole idea that Westernization leads to the demise of true Islam, and well, that's always fun.

 

So I highly doubt that you'll be able to find a Muslim country willing to work with the United States over this, because it'll probably not only piss off their neighbors, but some of their own people as well. Now, as for the rest of the world, somehow I doubt that whoever is in office that allies are going to come running to our aid. But, anything's better than nothing.

 

--Ryan

...Late on this one, but there's no way in hell Kerry won this debate...

[Guest GreatOne]

That was the media jumping the gun..Al Qaeda aren't connected..

Hmmm, and you had to struggle with who to blame for Bigley's death more: the terrorists, or Bush/Blair....................

 

Excuse anyone if they're not taking your 'terrorism expertise'..........................

[Guest whitemilesdavis]

The Gallop polls this morning reported Kerry with a 2% victory, as far as who people thought had won the debate, so basically a dead tie.

 

I'd pretty much agree with that. I thought Bush handled himself much better than in the first one, and now it's down to both men presenting their case, and whoever you agree with, you vote for. We'll see if something develops at the Wednesday debate that really gives one candidate an upper hand, but I doubt it.

[Guest MikeSC]

Look for Bush to bring this up:

 

An off-shore tax shelter

Documents obtained by the Globe detail John Kerry's 1983 investment of between $25,000 and $30,000 in offshore companies registered in the Cayman Islands. The document below, signed by Kerry, shows his pledge to purchase 2,470 shares of Peabody Commodities Trading Corp. through Sytel Traders, registered in the Caymans.

http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/package...s/day5/tax1.htm

 

Or, in simple terms, Kerry is using an int'l tax shelter -- you know, the ones hehas decried.

-=Mike

[Hogan Made Wrestling 0]

The problem with Egypt helping out is that the leadership is scared to take any action that could be viewed as too pro-American, after what happened to Anwar Sadat. This might be easier to spin though ("helping our arab brothers rebuild their country" or something along those lines).