Need some opinions......

[Damaramu 0]

Well he was as hurt as I'm saying he is. And he didn't want to go out of the game b/c he felt that he was the leader and needed to make a statement. He's doesn't have the kind of character to give up. He's the kind of guy that will fight when half dead. He didn't want to give up and he wanted to try to win.

I agree though that Paul Thompson should've been in that game against LSU after the first quarter.

[Guest Crazy Dan]

And White is another consideration, but he showed in Okla. last two games of last season that he should not have been given the award.  The fact he is mentioned again in the Heisman favorites is due to AD, who has helped White regain his productivity.

So having a broken hand and foot and bad knees proves someone doesn't deserve it?

His knees and foot were so bad by the end of last year that he couldn't snap from under center b/c he couldn't move back quick enough. And his hand was broken.....HIS HAND WAS BROKEN.

How does that prove he wasn't as good as he proved during the season? He was at about 60% health during the seaosn when he was putting up amazing numbers. His knees were already giving him trouble by the game against Texas, he could already barely start under center in that game.

So how do the last two games where he should've been on a surgeon's table and not on a football field prove he didn't deserve it? He tried to gut out the performance but there comes a time when your body says "hell no i won't work anymore" he had all the heart in the world but his body was finished.

I don't see how that proves he didn't deserve it. If he'd been healthy they would've blown by KSU and LSU. Just b/c during the regular season when he was in bad health but not as bad as the end of the season he was putting up phenomenal numbers.

Plus it proves how important he was to the team. When he went down in the last two games they went down. And they had pretty much the same team minus AD.

So how would OU be undefeated without Jason White?

 

Seriously read and consider everything I just wrote rather than going off on a "there he goes about OU again!" think about it objectively. The guy put up huge numbers and deserved the Heisman at about half of his health. Then he got injured and continued to play. The guy's hand and foot were broken. His knees were shot to hell. How does that prove he's not a great player? The season proved how good he was. In those last two games it hurt to watch him play football b/c he was obviously in pain. Everytime he snapped the ball and threw it his face contorted in pain. A sports writer said at the Heisman ceremony he went up and shook Jason White's throwing hand and he winced in pain. That doesn't sound like a bad player. That sounds like an injured player.

This season he's completely healthy and more experienced. Without him OU would've lost to OSU and KSU. Period. Without AD, White would've thrown for the same that he threw last season. Hell they scored more points last season with Jason White just throwing the ball.

 

 

 

Oh and why would Leinart deserve it over the other QB's? I mean Alex Smith deserves it IMO if you're going to give it to a QB. Plus Leinart isn't even the best player on his team! Reggie Bush is.

First, I really have not been following college that much this year, so I only know of a few players who are bonafide stars. So sorry if I did not mention more. I just feel that this year, AD has been the best college player. Not to take anything away from White. That was a bad example, my bad. I was not aware of his injuries he had, but I was never questioning his heart, I think I knew he had made a comeback from a bum knee. And come to think about it, his stats up until the BIG 12 championship did merit the award. What I should have mentioned that KSU and LSU made the right adjustments and Stoops for once had no answer for them. Plus, I feel that if you lose your Conference Championship, then you don't deserve to play in the title game. It is just that this is what happened with Nebraska when they got smeared against Colo, and then that carried over to the Title Game, when they really did not belong in the game (Oregon would have been a tougher matchup against Miami, and they crushed Colorodo as well). I feel that USC belonged in the that game.... which would have meant a better game and a guarantee of no Co-Champions. But, Oklahoma had such a high ranking in the BCS, that the KSU lost was not enough. Those two games I did watch, and Oklahoma looked very flat and not like they did during the regular season. White had two real bad games in a row. If the award was given after the season, White might not get the award.

 

But I was wrong about White... its just his injuries might have caught up to him and as those two final loses indicated, he did not have enough. Also, I think that KSU and LSU had more team speed than Oklahoma, which would be factor in them losing. But, the Heisman is awarded in season and the best stats/performance will win it up to that point. And so White was good enough to win it, heck Okla looked awesome until the Big 12 Championship. That lost doomed their season, though.

 

This year, AD makes the Sooners better. A dominant runner makes your passing game that much better. So White is putting up great numbers as a result, only now, he has less pressure on him. So that is why I mentioned that AD had helped him to regain his form. White is great college QB made better with AD. And that will make Oklahoma a title game team, which will be a tough game for USC. AD's stats also are crazy, so that is why I feel he should win the award. But, I never questioned your objectivity at all. Its just that White resembled some past winners who looked great, until they won the award. Then amazingly the bowl game they tend to have a real bad game, or string of games. I mentioned Crouch, and Ty Detmer was another winner who won and then played like crap in the Bowl Game. So that is why I mentioned him the same breathe. This year I think Oklahoma could win it all, but they will be tested against possibly USC.

[Damaramu 0]

Well White did fight back from double knee surgery. He tore his ACL in each knee 2 years in a row on non-contact plays. Talk about shitty luck.

However he was a scrambler before the surgery. He came back from the surgery and became a pocket QB. But yes his body gradually broke down over the year b/c he came back too soon.

It is true that without White OU fell apart. But they also lost to KSU and LSU b/c:

1) they played shitty defense until the second half of the Sugar Bowl where LSU got not even one first down.

2) they had NO running game to speak of.

3) they had never been tested b/c White kept the scores so high during the regular season that once he wasn't there to outscore everyone they didn't know what to do.

 

This year however I agree that AD helps make them better. If White is feeling like he was last year(which he won't be) they can help him.

White this year is 100% healthy. He has no knee braces and can actually scramble and start under center.

But once again without White OU isn't undefeated. But then again maybe not without AD.

Maybe they need both of them.

[lomasmoney 0]

well that shows that they dont know how to win the close ones. Who cares if you blow out everyone all year and then lose when it counts. Ask the 1998 Minnesota Vikings about that. One of the best regular season teams ever, but everyone remembers them as the team that choked when it counts. Same thing with Oklahoma last season. This season I think if they play USC, Auburn, Cal, and maybe even a Georgia or Michigan on a neutral field that OU could easily lose that game. They are a very, very, very good team and if they do win all of their games they deserve to be the champions. I just think that the other elite teams are just as good this season and that OU would not roll over most top 10 teams sans Texas

[Damaramu 0]

well that shows that they dont know how to win the close ones. Who cares if you blow out everyone all year and then lose when it counts. Ask the 1998 Minnesota Vikings about that. One of the best regular season teams ever, but everyone remembers them as the team that choked when it counts. Same thing with Oklahoma last season. This season I think if they play USC, Auburn, Cal, and maybe even a Georgia or Michigan on a neutral field that OU could easily lose that game. They are a very, very, very good team and if they do win all of their games they deserve to be the champions. I just think that the other elite teams are just as good this season and that OU would not roll over most top 10 teams sans Texas

Well they could've won the close ones if they had a healthy QB and team leader.

OU's biggest weakness last season wasn't that they couldn't win a close one. It was that the offense was built around one man and when he went down they went down. He tried his best but his body just didn't want to do it.

 

Luckily this year they aren't built around one man. They're built around 2(watches AD go down in Big XII title game and White in Orange Bowl) Shit.

[Damaramu 0]

And I agree they aren't going to roll over any Top 10 teams. Then again I don't think anyone in the Top 10 is going to roll over one another.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I would hope that if AD goes down in the conference game and they lose, White's presence and OU in general wouldn't be in Orange Bowl.

[Damaramu 0]

I would hope that if AD goes down in the conference game and they lose, White's presence and OU in general wouldn't be in Orange Bowl.

Well if they lose the conference title game they probably won't go to the Orange Bowl.

I mean last year it happened b/c they were so far ahead of the rest of the country in points. That's not happening this season.

 

But if AD did go down and OU won anyways.....what the hell is wrong with White?

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

I would hope that if AD goes down in the conference game and they lose, White's presence and OU in general wouldn't be in Orange Bowl.

Well if they lose the conference title game they probably won't go to the Orange Bowl.

I mean last year it happened b/c they were so far ahead of the rest of the country in points. That's not happening this season.

 

But if AD did go down and OU won anyways.....what the hell is wrong with White?

If they won without AD, then I'll agree with you, that White's the man. And I'm not counting last year. The Heisman is to vote for THIS YEAR's player.

[Damaramu 0]

Yes but how could you win the Heisman for best player in the country if you aren't even the best player on your team?

 

That's why Leinhart shouldn't win it over Bush. Bush is a better player. Plus Leinhart isn't even the best QB in the country.

 

And I already know White's the man. He's going to go down as the greatest QB in OU history.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Yes but how could you win the Heisman for best player in the country if you aren't even the best player on your team?

 

That's why Leinhart shouldn't win it over Bush. Bush is a better player. Plus Leinhart isn't even the best QB in the country.

 

And I already know White's the man. He's going to go down as the greatest QB in OU history.

I never said anything about Leinart winning it. In fact as much as I love USC and as much as I think the team is great, no one on the team deserves the Heisman, because it's a TEAM effort for USC. No player really stands out. However AD STANDS OUT.

[Damaramu 0]

You're right he does stand out. The problem is that on OU....the team has so much offensive fire power!

Any team would kill to have one of those recievers on their team, especially Mark Clayton. White has found a new favorite target every week. One week he's throwing TD's to Mark Clayton. The next he's throwing them to Travis Wilson. This past week he's throwing them to Mark Bradley. Next week he'll be hitting Brandon Jones.

It's crazy. OU just loads themselves.

Thos recievers could be Heisman recievers...if they didn't have the others around them.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

You're right he does stand out. The problem is that on OU....the team has so much offensive fire power!

Any team would kill to have one of those recievers on their team, especially Mark Clayton. White has found a new favorite target every week. One week he's throwing TD's to Mark Clayton. The next he's throwing them to Travis Wilson. This past week he's throwing them to Mark Bradley. Next week he'll be hitting Brandon Jones.

It's crazy. OU just loads themselves.

Thos recievers could be Heisman recievers...if they didn't have the others around them.

Now all he needs is a Mark Duper and he can reprise the Dolphins (as they had a Mark Clayton).

[Damaramu 0]

I was watching ESPN classics the other day and saw Mark Clayton on the Dolphins. I laughed.

 

So anyways I guess the general feeling is that AD should win the Heisman. If White were to go down though....would OU be where they are?

[lomasmoney 0]

Jason White is not the best QB ever, not even close. Numbers wise, nope. Wins, hell Ken Dorsey has him there and thats just in the last few years. He's great, but nowhere near the best ever

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Jason White is not the best QB ever, not even close. Numbers wise, nope. Wins, hell Ken Dorsey has him there and thats just in the last few years. He's great, but nowhere near the best ever

Dama was talking about in OU history. I don't recall Dorsey suited in the maroon and white. And I don't know what to say about that as I'm not well-versed in OU history to know if there was any better QBs there.

[CanadianChris 0]

Jason White is not the best QB ever, not even close.  Numbers wise, nope.  Wins, hell Ken Dorsey has him there and thats just in the last few years.  He's  great, but nowhere near the best ever

Dama was talking about in OU history. I don't recall Dorsey suited in the maroon and white. And I don't know what to say about that as I'm not well-versed in OU history to know if there was any better QBs there.

Believe me, it's not a very storied list. Oklahoma's always been better known for running backs.

[Damaramu 0]

Until Bob Stoops arrived at OU we had nothing but option QB's! So yeah we were more known for RB's.

 

The thing is that OU has 7 National Titles, a over 20 something bowl titles and like 32 conference titles and they are one of the storied teams in NCAA history. But.....we've never really produced huge stars. I always found that weird. We are a huge College FB program with a storied history but we don't pump them out like Miami does. I think it's more that our coaches that constantly won(Wilkinson, Switzer, Stoops) have a good system and they find players that work well within that system.

[Damaramu 0]

Another thing I've been wondering about Peterson is this. The guy rushes behind the best O-Line in the country. Would he be as impressive without them?

Well actually we'll find out next year b/c most of that line graduates.

[lomasmoney 0]

but they bring in jesse white, who will eventually be about 315-20 pounds when he gets to the OU strength and conditioning program

 

OU is gonna be a powerhouse for years to come. The only reason they ever fell off was because of how dirty Switzer was. Now they have Stoops who seems to run a clean program and still get the best players. They will be a perinial top 5 or top 10 team for a while.

 

Dama, I thought you were saying White was going to be the best QB in college football history. He's definitely going to be the best ever at OU if he can add a national title to his Heisman

[Damaramu 0]

Yeah he's not the greatest college QB ever. He's the best QB OU has ever had.

And I know about OU being a powerhouse. As long as Stoops is the coach they will win 10 games every year.

They dropped off b/c after Switzer left they hired losers to coach.

[CanadianChris 0]

Yeah he's not the greatest college QB ever. He's the best QB OU has ever had.

And I know about OU being a powerhouse. As long as Stoops is the coach they will win 10 games every year.

They dropped off b/c after Switzer left they hired losers to coach.

They dropped off because they couldn't recruit anyone, because they weren't allowed to go to bowl games or appear on TV. Who would want to go play there? And, by extension, who would want to go coach there?

[Damaramu 0]

Ah I see. What is it with big programs committing violations like that? Jeez.

 

Anyways back to my question about Peterson and the O-Line.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

It's not unheard of that running backs succeed with even the most sketchiest patchwork offensive line. But like you said, AD operates behind a good one, so how do we know if it's AD or if it's the line? This is why I choose not to answer definitively.

[Damaramu 0]

Well we're going to know next season b/c as I said most if not all of that line will be gone.

 

Of course if he takes the Heisman and it turns out to be mostly the line then he will be put down and called undeserving.

Then again if it's all him.......he will probably be a 2-time Heisman winner.

[USC Wuz Robbed! 0]

Well we're going to know next season b/c as I said most if not all of that line will be gone.

 

Of course if he takes the Heisman and it turns out to be mostly the line then he will be put down and called undeserving.

Then again if it's all him.......he will probably be a 2-time Heisman winner.

If he continues, I see AD coming out of college as heralded as someone like Willis McGahee (except without the injury)

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Just wanted to bump this to point out the great season that Bowling Green QB Omar Jacobs is having. BG has a 7-2 Record, 69.5% completion rate(5th in Division 1), 2833 yards(3rd in Division 1) and a 27(1st in Division 1)/2 TD to INT ratio. He also has a 170.1 QB rating which is good for 4th in Division 1 football at this point of the season. The only knock on him is that he hasn't faced any good Pass Defenses so far this season. He does have Marshall coming up as this week but that will be the toughest pass D he's faced all year.

[Vern Gagne 0]

Keep an eye out for Jason Campell at Auburn. If Auburn runs the table, and Campell puts up good numbers. Say 10-12 total TD's, 1 or 2 picks. He could sneak into the Top 5.

[HarleyQuinn 0]

Looking at him now, I wouldn't be surprised to see Utah QB Alex Smith garner serious consideration down the home stretch. The guy has a 24/2 ratio passing but also has 439 yards rushing and 8 TD's.

[Damaramu 0]

Well in the 2 big polls(ESPN and I the other one....can't remember the name)

Jason White is #1 in the big one.

AD is #1 in the ESPN one.

 

The Oklahoma boys do nothing but improve their status every week. AD is going to finish with a 100 yard rushing game in EVERY GAME OF THE SEASON. That's unheralded for a freshman.

 

I have a feeling that we're going to have White, AD, Leinhart, and Bush sitting in NYC. That'd be insane. 4 people for the Heisman from 2 schools.

Smith may jump in their and replace Bush though.

 

Problem with all 4 being there is they'll steal votes from each other from their region. It'd be up to the East Coast to decide. And well I think they hate anything west of the Mississippi.

 

*East Coast writer*

"BAH! No Duke player!?"

 

"Sir Duke sucks at football."

 

"Don't question me! I want to vote for Coach K!"

 

"Sir......"