Vince McMahon Interview

[strummer 0]

Q&A / VINCE McMAHON, World Wrestling Entertainment chairman: Slump means fighting harder

Jon Waterhouse - For the Journal-Constitution

Saturday, March 12, 2005

 

Professional wrestling isn't flying high through pop culture as it was during the late '90s. But someone forgot to tell World Wrestling Entertainment (WWE) honcho Vince McMahon.

 

WWE is still all over television with shows like "Raw" (9 p.m. Mondays, Spike TV) and "Smackdown!" (8 p.m. Thursdays, UPN). Its talent continues hitting the big screen with The Rock co-starring in "Be Cool" with John Travolta, and "Stone Cold" Steve Austin inking a three-picture deal under the WWE Films banner.

 

That's not to mention toys, video games and its new 24-hour, video-on-demand service. And WWE's annual equivalent to the Super Bowl, Wrestlemania, drops April 3 in Los Angeles.

 

While it all sounds as exhausting as three minutes in the ring with Triple H, there's more. "Raw" broadcasts live from the Gwinnett Arena on Monday. When McMahon stopped in Atlanta to promote his latest local event, here's what he said about wrestling today.

 

Q: What do you think about the current state of wrestling?

 

A: We're certainly not at our peak at the moment. Our business has always been one of ebb and flow, but not unlike any other entertainment business. When you look at the movie business, sometimes the studios have really good product, and sometimes they don't. The same could be said for the arena business. It's been down across the board from concerts to family entertainment. So it becomes more competitive, and we're in competition with ourselves, whether it's our other pay-per-view offerings or video games and things of that nature. We're in all those platforms. When you ask someone to bring their family, pay for parking, a hot dog or a T-shirt, you're really talking about a lot of money. And we have to make certain that if someone goes that far and commits to the product, that they get their money's worth and then some. It's not always an easy thing to do.

 

Q: WWE bought out its main competitor, Atlanta-based WCW, in 2000. Do you miss the rivalry?

 

A: In some ways, I miss our great rivalry. We were both burning the candle at both ends, and it was a question of whose candle was going to burn out first. Because it was such an intense rivalry, both sets of talent were overexposed and overworked. At that pace, someone is going to burn out. We couldn't really have a meeting of the minds. I couldn't have just called Ted [Turner] and said, "Hey, let's slow down and both live for a while." That's antitrust, and you can't do that. Our country isn't based on that. It's based on competition. And certainly there was no goal by our company to be the sole survivor at this level of the business today. It just happened that way. As such, by us being the only game in town, so to speak, it creates an awesome responsibility for us now.

 

Q: How does a wrestler become a WWE superstar?

 

A: The audience is very smart. You can't dictate to them, they refuse for you to. It is more about what they want. You can't fool the public. If you try and package someone up, and he's really not all that great, they'll see through it. We can enhance someone's performance, but they have to be themselves. You can't implant passion. Money can't make a performer do what we do for a living. There's no amount of money that can make you get out in the ring, knocked around and hurt, and be able to smile right after that's over with, then get on a plane, and go to another part of the world. You have to have the passion. We've had other guys, like Brock Lesnar, who is a tremendous athlete. But Lesnar didn't have the passion . . . and the audience saw right through it.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

It's amazing how a guy willing to literally put his neck on the line for your company suddenly had no passion once he walks out you. Other than that, it's the usual fluff you'd expect.

[CBright7831 0]

A: The audience is very smart. You can't dictate to them, they refuse for you to. It is more about what they want.

 

I want more of "The Masterpiece" Chris Masters, dammit!

[AndrewTS 0]

The entire last A = LOL

[SuperJerk 0]

Money can't make a performer do what we do for a living. There's no amount of money that can make you get out in the ring, knocked around and hurt, and be able to smile right after that's over with, then get on a plane, and go to another part of the world. You have to have the passion.

 

Translation: "Fuck guaranteed money."

[Spaceman Spiff 0]

The audience is very smart. You can't dictate to them, they refuse for you to. It is more about what they want. You can't fool the public. If you try and package someone up, and he's really not all that great, they'll see through it.

And yet they do it over and over and over and over and over and over...

[justcoz 0]

Does anyone believe deep down inside that Vince McMahon knows the product isn't very good right now and that HHH/Stephanie's power hurts locker room morale just like the Kliq did previously? He just doesn't do anything about it because he wants to make damn sure that one of his children is capable of running the show when he's gone and he gets some kind of jollies from testing Stephanie's McMahonerisms and seeing if she can overcome obstacles to succeed? In some ways, Vince beating Ted Turner and buying his competition may have been the end Vince's fire. Maybe now he's just sort of in a leader/fatherly role and trying to guide his successors? Also, I'm sure Vince realizes that Brock busted his neck for the company (almost killing himself at WM as well) but who can blame him for being pissed? The money, hours and manpower that went into pushing him to the top - the aggrevation of trying to keep him happy, actually agreeing on letting him out of his contract to persue a dream and then watching him go the media and pretty much disrespect the business and acting like he was above it.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

If Vince truly realised how bad things were, he would do something about it. In his mind, he probably thinks he is.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Does anyone believe deep down inside that justcoz works for the WWE?

 

Vince is insanely out-of-touch.

[Guest Brian]

I think Vince in his mind, really does thin kthat it's an ebb and flow business, that there's nothing he can cdo about it, and when the next star is ready he'll be up to it.

[spman 0]

I think Vince in his mind, really does thin kthat it's an ebb and flow business, that there's nothing he can cdo about it, and when the next star is ready he'll be up to it.

and I completely agree with him. WWE has had boneheaded writers and bookers long before any children or would be in-laws stepped up to the writing block, the next big success that makes wrestling popular again never comes from the writers, it just comes from the right worker with the right gimmick and the right charisma at the right time, if the crowd really digs a worker like Rock or Austin, no amount of shitty booking can overcome that. Even when WWF was at their highest level of success from 1998-2001, for every awesome Steve Austin storyline or Rock promo we had on every show, will still had to deal with big black body builders having sex with transsexuals, Evil Japanese guys castrating porn stars, and zombies crucifying people. I truely think the buisness IS ebb and flow.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Wrestling only ebbs and flows because promotions stick with a pat hand for too long. There's no reason for wrestling to go in such big peaks and valleys if promotions would learn to change with the times, and go with a new top act before the old one gets stale.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

And the "ebb and flow" kind of thought does not lend itself well to actually recovering. If you think "well, it's bound to happen sometime" then risks won't be taken, the needed changes won't be made. The WWE, invariably, will have to *make* the change, because it won't be given to them. And as has been shown over the past 4 years, they don't know how to do that. There will be a point in our TV culture where something light and fluffy like wrestling will be desired because there is a natural tendancy to reject the current trends after oversaturation (the hour long dramas like CSI and LOST) and go towards the opposite, but whether or not it will be wrestling is not guaranteed.

[spman 0]

Wrestling only ebbs and flows because promotions stick with a pat hand for too long. There's no reason for wrestling to go in such big peaks and valleys if promotions would learn to change with the times, and go with a new top act before the old one gets stale.

But that's just the way it's always gone, you get one good idea or one big drawing wrestler and you run it into the ground untill it doesn't draw anymore. It's just that some wrestlers have longer legs as drawing cards then others

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

Wrestling only ebbs and flows because promotions stick with a pat hand for too long. There's no reason for wrestling to go in such big peaks and valleys if promotions would learn to change with the times, and go with a new top act before the old one gets stale.

But that's just the way it's always gone, you get one good idea or one big drawing wrestler and you run it into the ground untill it doesn't draw anymore. It's just that some wrestlers have longer legs as drawing cards then others

It wouldn't go that way if promoters were able or willing to think ahead. Good booking would make any 'ebbs and flows' not as drastic as they typically are.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Just because "it's the way it's gone" doesn't mean it's the way it has to be. What you are talking about, simply put, is complacency - which would is death to a company.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

When McMahon talks about the entertainment industry going up and down, what is really happening is 10% (at most) changes one way or another. The WWE has had 50%+ changes. That McMahon is even comparing the two shows how out of it he is.

[spman 0]

I still don't think WWE has anything to worry about. WWE still has a non-stop constant stream of dedicated hardcore marks that will always buy the PPVs, always watch TV, and always buy the merchandise, I work with at least 2 or 3 of them. No other promotion could really say that. Prior to the NWO angle, WCW never made any money because they didn't have that dedicated fanbase, just a very small contingent of fans down south that were loyal to Ric Flair, but that still wasn't enough to pop any massive ratings or buyrates. ECW had a similar hardcore fanbase not unlike what WWE still has and will likely always have, but they simply tried to grow faster then their small fanbase and weren't able to contain themselves anymore.

[Hunter's Torn Quad 0]

I still don't think WWE has anything to worry about. WWE still has a non-stop constant stream of dedicated hardcore marks that will always buy the PPVs, always watch TV, and always buy the merchandise, I work with at least 2 or 3 of them. No other promotion could really say that. Prior to the NWO angle, WCW never made any money because they didn't have that dedicated fanbase, just a very small contingent of fans down south that were loyal to Ric Flair, but that still wasn't enough to pop any massive ratings or buyrates. ECW had a similar hardcore fanbase not unlike what WWE still has and will likely always have, but they simply tried to grow faster then their small fanbase and weren't able to contain themselves anymore.

It's that kind of complacent thinking that least to a stale and uninspiring product.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Thinking that your customer base will always be there is the wrong kind of thinking. In a business sense, in a wrestling sense, in every sense. I can guarantee you there have been people who thought they would "always" be wrestling fans and have stopped. Everyone has their breaking points and it's just a matter of time.

[spman 0]

I still don't think WWE has anything to worry about. WWE still has a non-stop constant stream of dedicated hardcore marks that will always buy the PPVs, always watch TV, and always buy the merchandise, I work with at least 2 or 3 of them. No other promotion could really say that. Prior to the NWO angle, WCW never made any money because they didn't have that dedicated fanbase, just a very small contingent of fans down south that were loyal to Ric Flair, but that still wasn't enough to pop any massive ratings or buyrates. ECW had a similar hardcore fanbase not unlike what WWE still has and will likely always have, but they simply tried to grow faster then their small fanbase and weren't able to contain themselves anymore.

It's that kind of complacent thinking that least to a stale and uninspiring product.

At this point, I don't expect anything out of the main event, as long as I get my fix of Eddie, Rey, and Benoit, and my Saturday night Paul London match, I'm set. THe main shows could be terrible for all I care.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

Well if you don't expect it, they certainly won't bother trying to give it to you.

 

It actually sounds like you are proud of this distinction.

[KingPK 0]

Wrestling only ebbs and flows because promotions stick with a pat hand for too long. There's no reason for wrestling to go in such big peaks and valleys if promotions would learn to change with the times, and go with a new top act before the old one gets stale.

And the thing is....WWE is really the only game in town right now (TNA still isn't big enough to constitute a "threat" to them), so when their current crop of talent starts to get old and their popularity starts to wane, they can pick the best of RoH, TNA, Japan, Mexico, etc and stay young and fresh without missing a beat.

 

Yet Vince is too pigheaded to allow "outsiders" (i.e. not OVW trained talent) to come in and make him money.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

The talent pool now-a-days, especially in relation to what the WWE wants, isn't nearly as big as it was in the mid-90's and the early 80's. The territorial system was much more developed back then and there was a chance for wrestlers to get to develop personality and work on promos, and today there is much more focus on ring-work and less on the details. The industry isn't the same as it was when the WWE recovered in the late 90's, or when it boomed in the 80's; it is in much worse shape, and that means it will be much harder for the WWE to succeed again. And before, WCW was the one who started the boom and the WWE caught some lucky bounces and capitalized; they don't have that luxury now. It's up to them and only them, and with this attitude of "ebb and flow", things don't look good for them to impove and take matters into their own hands. They are just sitting around and waiting, assuming that their fan base will wait with them.

[Precious Roy 0]

It's already been touched on, but that same tired line about not dictating to the fans, which Vince always spits, is laugh out loud hilarious. Does he even watch his own shows?

 

And saying the fans "saw through Lesnar" because he didn't have passion is absurd. Lesnar showed more passion on camera than most anyone in the company, and he also showed a genuine ability to learn and adapt. If he thinks we "saw through" Lesnar, how does he think we feel about all the green as shit OVW guys he brings up?

 

As for the WWE's future, nothing will change until they step back and make the necessary changes in their practices, and with the people at the helm I have no hope for that happening any time soon. As long as HHH can wrestle and creative is headed by Stephanie and a bunch of Hollywood rejects they'll keep making the same fucking mistakes. Shane McMahon may be our last hope for a cutting edge, unencumbered product, but who knows if he'll ever have a hand in presenting the actual product.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

See, the fans couldn't possibly have found out on the internet that Brock was leaving, it was pretty clear that everyone that night in MSG saw Brocks lack of passion and chanted "you sold out" (as people with no passion do) and "hey hey hey, goodbye" (they were mocking him, because he said goodbye to his passion).

[Anya 0]

I can guarantee you there have been people who thought they would "always" be wrestling fans and have stopped. Everyone has their breaking points and it's just a matter of time.

So true.

 

And how many of those that left would return if it got better? I know I wouldn't. I'm done with wrestling forever.

 

I will always be a Buffy fan though. Always!

[cameron chaos 0]

I know plenty of people, both guys and girls, that watched from 1998 to 2001 and dropped watching wrestling after the WCW vs WWF angle went up shit creek. Many have said now when they watch the product it makes them sad and laugh at it's current state.

 

Turning rabid fans into embarassed former fans, I'd think, would be a sign something has gone wrong along the way. I guess Vince disagrees and it's just natural.

 

It has to be said though, any other business that suffered the drop off in business and interest WWE has had would probably have most of their staff fired and replaced with people to reinvigorate and redesign their product. Vince must feel that WWE is also above logical business decisions to maintain profitability and brand recognition if he genuinely believes his own garbage.

[justcoz 0]

Does anyone believe deep down inside that justcoz works for the WWE?

 

Vince is insanely out-of-touch.

 

All that I'm saying is he may not be as out-of-touch as everyone would lead you to believe. Unless you are hanging out with the McMahon family on a regular basis one really wouldn't know. My guess is that Vince does see holes in the product but if you are the baseball coach and your son is the shortstop and underperforming, do you necessarily take him out of the game or do you work closely with him to make him better for the next game?

 

I'd also like to see the company run differently but if you are Vince McMahon and trying to groom one of your children to some day take over the family business - just as Vince Jr. did when Vince Sr. stepped down - what do you do? Remove her from the position just because business is down? Is that the best thing to do when trying to prepare her for one day running the entire show? I personally feel that the four year experiment with Stephanie leading creative has run it's course and she should learn how to work in a capacity like Linda McMahon's position. Stephanie knows how creative operates by now, move her on to something else.

 

and I completely agree with him. WWE has had boneheaded writers and bookers long before any children or would be in-laws stepped up to the writing block, the next big success that makes wrestling popular again never comes from the writers, it just comes from the right worker with the right gimmick and the right charisma at the right time, if the crowd really digs a worker like Rock or Austin, no amount of shitty booking can overcome that. Even when WWF was at their highest level of success from 1998-2001, for every awesome Steve Austin storyline or Rock promo we had on every show, will still had to deal with big black body builders having sex with transsexuals, Evil Japanese guys castrating porn stars, and zombies crucifying people. I truely think the buisness IS ebb and flow

 

Right, there were terrible things that we all complained about even when the product was at it's peak in popularity. There were just characters like Rock, Austin, DX, Foley, etc. that people cared about to wait through the garbage. That isn't the case right now. I think the bigger problem is the talent that people like Johnny Ace are calling up and the breed of wrestler that he seems to get all excited about. I think he's going for a certain look because he feels that is what Vince likes and everyone that works with the company is too preoccupied with making Vince happy. That isn't necessarily Vince's fault.

 

And the "ebb and flow" kind of thought does not lend itself well to actually recovering. If you think "well, it's bound to happen sometime" then risks won't be taken, the needed changes won't be made. The WWE, invariably, will have to *make* the change, because it won't be given to them. And as has been shown over the past 4 years, they don't know how to do that. There will be a point in our TV culture where something light and fluffy like wrestling will be desired because there is a natural tendancy to reject the current trends after oversaturation (the hour long dramas like CSI and LOST) and go towards the opposite, but whether or not it will be wrestling is not guaranteed.

 

I agree 100%. If Vince truely believed that the company's competition, with the demise of WCW and ECW, is the rest of the entertainment industry, then show us something besides a product with the same look that it had in 1998 trying to pull in an audience with the same stunts, the bimbo pillow fights, etc. If Monday Night Football has a season with declining ratings, they make the changes. The change up the announcers. They make production changes. They don't go into the next season the same show as the previous year. It is complacency and the only reason Vince is still in business right now is because Eric Bischoff came along and forced changes on Vince's presentation of his product.

 

When McMahon talks about the entertainment industry going up and down, what is really happening is 10% (at most) changes one way or another. The WWE has had 50%+ changes. That McMahon is even comparing the two shows how out of it he is.

 

As an indie concert promoter, I'd disagree with you here. It's harder to get people to come out for shows any more even if you have a real quality band. My friend owns a bar and business isn't what it was five years ago. Vince is right about declines all around, I do tend to agree that this is used as an excuse more than it should be however.

 

Thinking that your customer base will always be there is the wrong kind of thinking. In a business sense, in a wrestling sense, in every sense. I can guarantee you there have been people who thought they would "always" be wrestling fans and have stopped. Everyone has their breaking points and it's just a matter of time.

 

But there does seem to be an audience that isn't going anywhere. They've been watching a stale uninspired product for four years now and they haven't gone any where yet. The things that are good... your HBK/Edge match, the storyline leading into the Batista turn, Foley vs. Orton, etc. is keeping a larger audience more so than Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels did when the business cycled down following the Hogan era.

 

I know plenty of people, both guys and girls, that watched from 1998 to 2001 and dropped watching wrestling after the WCW vs WWF angle went up shit creek. Many have said now when they watch the product it makes them sad and laugh at it's current state.

 

Turning rabid fans into embarassed former fans, I'd think, would be a sign something has gone wrong along the way. I guess Vince disagrees and it's just natural.

 

The one thing that fascinates me about pro wrestling is that rarely do you find people who admit that they are current fans but almost everyone was a fan of a specific era. You always encounter something like "I used to watch it back with Bruno Sammartino" or whoever. Although I really don't see it in the ratings, I do believe there is a certain audience that knows when Wrestlemania time is and tune in during that time to observe things. That's why I think the best thing for WWE right now is doing whatever it takes to get WWE 24/7 in as many homes as possible and trying to build it into a full fledged network with advertising, etc. rather than a video on demand service.

[RavishingRickRudo 0]

But there does seem to be an audience that isn't going anywhere. They've been watching a stale uninspired product for four years now and they haven't gone any where yet. The things that are good... your HBK/Edge match, the storyline leading into the Batista turn, Foley vs. Orton, etc. is keeping a larger audience more so than Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels did when the business cycled down following the Hogan era.

 

Live Event Attendance and Buyrates are _still_ going DOWN. They are the two biggest economic indicators because they show what the fans are willing to _pay_ for.