The one and only judgment day thread

[Guest chirs3]

So why should Jericho get the win when he isn't over?

 

To make him over. One way guys get over is by going over someone else.

 

If Jericho had won HIAC, or even lost respectably (kicked out of a pedigree, or a sick bump), it would have helped establish him as more than a joke. THAT's why they should have done it.

[Guest TheHulkster]

RVD perplexes me in that he is a High Flyer, and he rarely blows spots. I'm a Hardy's mark, but if you watch a Hardy's match, there is a 50% chance they are going to blow a spot. RVD's Balance and agility are just amazing.

BTW, I really like the PPV. Angle vs Edge was an awesome match, even better than their match last month. The Hell in a Cell was well worked and chock full of suspense. Austin vs Flair and Show was a lot better than what I thought it was going to be. Everyone played their roles to perfection and it was really entertaining. I liked RVD vs Eddie as well. When I buy a PPV, I just want to be entertained, nothing more and nothing less. This show did just that.

[Guest]

Fuck HHH. And fuck me for buying this crap thinking things might change in the WWF.  Do you think that he remembers that it took Mick Foley bending over backwards and letting him retire him to get him over?  Fuck that piece of shit.  It took a legend retiring, marrying the bosses daughter, and a shit load of needles to get his sorry ass over and the fucking asshole is afraid of  giving someone who didn't need all of that to get over an important win.  Gee why are the ratings dropping we have a world title match between the two oldest wrestlers in the company, one of the top heels in the company has been turned into a comedy character, and the other top heel is jobbing to HHH whenever he needs to get a win back, whenever he has a bad day, or whenever else in general he damn well pleases.  And how many more times are we going to have to hear JR say "Well Jericho took him to the limit, but the Game managed to survive." There is a finite amount of times that you can use that line until it turns into "Well Jericho jobbed again, the Game will move into a title fued and Jericho will keep running on the treadmill facing Chris Benoit every night"  So as of now I imagine KOR will be either HHH/UT or a Hogan/UT rematch(highly unlikely).  WOW.  Here is hoping they give the book to Heyman and he books Lesnar to squash HHH every night, Hogan and UT to wrestle each other in attraction matches every pre-PPV Heat and we get back to the **** main events that we were having on a regular basis before the glass ceiling that was supposedly broken down in every interview WWF employees did magically reappeared (and you know January 7th seems to be giving me a weird feeling about that concept hmmm I wonder what that means).

 

Sorry I don't usually like to post shit like this but fuck HHH fuck him up his stupid ass (I know that was used by someone else in this thread already but it fits so well)

Fuckin'  A!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

My Rant wouldn't have been much nicer. There was NO Reason, what so Ever, that Jericho shouldn't have won!

 

There was Absolutely NO reason that Austin should have won!

 

As far as Undertaker goes, rather him then Hogan. Hogan's cheers in Canada are breath taking, but that is only because Canada knows how to show respect to these guys unlike America. NO, I'm not Canadian, either!

 

Lets not let Taker hold the belt too long, though! I have NO problem letting Hogan & Taker get their last runs at the the top as long there is decent story lines. But, lets not over do it! I'm only afraid, that HHH will beat Taker at the next PPV.

 

I think it's common sense, newer and & younger talent has to be push.

 

Unfortunately, WWE won't see this!

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Saying RVD rarely blows spots (although it has been true for all of this year) will bring out the haters that remember him blowing spots in ECW.

[Guest cabbageboy]

My theory on RVD:  he is off the weed.  In ECW you could watch his matches and at times he looked wasted, eyes glazed over, etc.  Now he seems more alert in the ring and therefore is crisper with his spots.  

 

Watching HIAC tonight made me wonder what RVD would do in that type of match.  Rolling Thunder on top of the cell anyone?

[Guest Flyboy]

Saying RVD rarely blows spots (although it has been true for all of this year) will bring out the haters that remember him blowing spots in ECW.

The only two spots I remember him blowing is in the RVD/UT match on Raw... he went for a back-kick off the second turnbuckle, and it missed UT by a mile.  UT still sold it, and RVD tried to cover it up with a spinning legdrop.

 

The other is when RVD tries to go to the top rope on Goldust, and slips.  But c'mon... how many people can actually ascend to the top rope like THAT?  

 

I'm sure RVD-haters will remember tons more.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

He needs to throw punches not weak forearms.

 

That should be the main criticism.

[Guest Flyboy]

Watching HIAC tonight made me wonder what RVD would do in that type of match.  Rolling Thunder on top of the cell anyone?

Nah... that's not big enough.

 

I'm sure the guy is crazy enough to do a 5-Star off the top of the cell to a person who is on a table.... but who knows.

[Guest Flyboy]

He needs to throw punches not weak forearms.

 

That should be the main criticism.

Even as a huge RVD mark, I agree with that one.  

 

His "punches" look like little slaps... and they don't even look painful.  

 

Hmmm... learn to do a real punch, adapt even MORE to the WWE style... and maybe just MAYBE Vince will take notice in the guy.  The crowd was hot for him, tonight.

 

Just keep HHH away from him.. he's already beaten that guy tonight.  The one with the red-highlights in his hair... first ever Undisputed Champion... should have won tonight... ah fuck.  Forgot him.

[Guest]

I got what I wanted from this show, and what I want is always affected by what I know what will happen, so I must mould my wants to fit reality.

 

Realities were:

- Austin was going to win.

- Trips was probably going to win.

- Angle had a good chance of losing.

- Undertaker was going to take the title.

 

So my wants were:

- A handicap match that wasn't going to put me to sleep. Check.

- A hotly contested and energetic Hell in the Cell, with Jericho being made to look like he could have won. Check.

- A match as good or better from Edge and Angle than Backlash. Check, in spades I might add.

- Undertaker/Hogan not being that bad. Check.

- A better than Backlash RVD/Eddie match. Check.

- Minimal wrestling from Stacy. Check.

 

I don't ask for much from my PPVs, even if I am spending $35 on them. I get what I want, I'm happy. I don't get what I was really looking for (Wrestlemania minus Rock/Hogan, I'm looking at YOU), I become annoyed. When it happens twice in a row (No Way Out and Wrestlemania), I get angry. Three times and I become a cynic. It has yet to happen three times in a row. The last two shows have been solid in my view, with this show being considerably better than Backalsh. The results are not what we may have wanted, but I look at the product and how the results were produced. We're pissed that Angle lost, but he lost in a damn good match. We're pissed that Jericho lost, but he lost in a damn good match too. We're mad that McMahon interfered, but it got the title off of Hogan.

 

You get the idea. Thankfully, the WWE has averted losing my interest, after coming very close the last couple of Raws.

[Guest Human Fly]

I stayed away from spoilers all night, and I went to order the replay, but the cable company has a new setup and wouldn't let me. I'm glad I didn't waste the 35 now. Here are my main problems with the show.

- They set it up like the Dudleys are going to feud, but they are on different shows.....so what is the point of even beginning to head in that direction? What a waste of time.

 

- What was the point of Paul Heyman if he didn't get pinned? The Hardys are complete jobbers now. They would've come out better in a handicap match. Or better yet kept it Matt and Brock one on one.

 

- NWO still can't get a win. Have they won one ppv match yet? No wonder this angle is spiraling down the toilet.

 

- I read somewhere that this isn't Fully Loaded 2000. Jericho being in the ring with HHH isn't going to elevate him. Jericho having a good match with HHH isn't going to elevate him. Jericho needs to beat HHH to elevate him. How many matches have Jericho and HHH had? Why can't Jericho get a win? There was no point of having another Jericho - HHH match if HHH was going to win again. This hurts Jericho and he is starting to get the stigma again of "not being able to win the big one". They put him over Austin and Rock in the same night, you think that he could go over HHH once.

 

- Billy & Chuck were on their way to a good title reign. Rikishi and Rico will suck. What is the point? Does anyone think their title reign will go past the Smackdown tapings? Rico is a good wrestler, Rikishi has been decent, will Rico ever tag in to wrestle as one half of the Tag Champs? I doubt it.

 

- Finally the main event mess continues. Another horrible match (from the sound of it) another old boring Champ. This booking by dartboard has got to stop. There needs to be a plan. Hotshotting the title between bad workers who aren't really over (Hogan is at the arenas, but ratings show otherwise for tv audiences) is making the title seem unimportant. IMO that's why IC title matches have been opening the show, they've got to keep the good action away from these plodding affairs. Rumor of the title being held up would be a good thing I think. The only downside would be that HHH would probably win the tournament.

 

- I would've liked to have seen the ppv for the IC match and the Edge - Angle match. Everything else sounds like it would've frustrated me. So maybe missing this one wasn't to bad.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

My thoughts on the RVD eddy match are somthing like this:

 

They must have spent some time laying it out ahead of time...because this was the first RVD match I can remember where his usual spots actually made sense with the action in the ring.

 

There was more flow...and his spots worked well with it.

 

Good for them.

[Guest Mole]

"I think Jericho was up there when he was fueding with Rocky for the WCW Title.  

 

Plus, when you say why should Jericho get a win when he's not over?  Well, if he DID get a win maybe it would have gotten him over.  HHH won fair and square... if Jericho would have won fair and square the fans would have been pissed and Jericho could be over.  What did HHH gain from this?  He's already over (well, he's not THAT over, but as over as he gets) and he's already beaten Jericho plenty of times.  Not counting the time he beat HHH for the #1 Contendership, Jericho has been playing HHH's personal bitch.  And that is fact."

 

Jericho was over when he fought the Rock, but that was over 3 months ago, I am talking about now.

 

Ahh, he did win some matches, especially the Undisputed title, and he still wasn't over.

 

If he beat HHH, he would get heat for it? Taker beat Hogan, the most popular wrestler right now, and he didn't get much heat. But if Jericho won, he would of gotten the heat? Right...

 

Yes, he has been playing HHH's personal bitch. I am not saying I like that, I am saying that he isn't over so he shouldn't win. But it is just my opinion.

[Guest Flyboy]

Saying Jericho SHOULDN'T have won (even if he's not that over right now) is just crazy... but it is your opinion.

 

To each their own.

[Guest humongous2002]

First of all I want to say it FEELS GOOD TO BE BACK!!!!!For some f'n reason it was impossible for me to log in, but now I'm back, bigger and badder than ever. And the wee wee entertainment it's going to hear my thoughts about this ppv and they won't silence me.

I thought it was pretty good even though the main event sucked some serious ass, thanks to two of the worst , aging, lazy wrestlers the world has ever seen. And then the wee wee wonders why their ratings are down, well who the f..k it's going to believe that a middle age man it's heavyweight champion of the world(besides marks of course)???? Hogan please hang up your boots, it's time for you to retire b/c it's over Huckster. It's a shame when Trish Stratus wrestles better than you gramps.What doesn't make any sense it's Vince trying to solve a fuck up by giving the belt to another fuck up? It seems McGenius is drowning in a glass of water.

The HITC was awesome, both guys busted their asses literally, Triple H is finally starting to please the fans as much as he pleases his girlfriend. But I think Y2J should've gotten over instead of HGH, I guess HHH must fantasize about Jericho everytime he has sex with Steph, because he loves to screw him so much.When is Jericho going to stop being HHH's bitch?? Vince lay off that weed please.

As much as I like Austin I'm starting to think that it's true about him losing his smile, the guy it's not even trying anymore he is just running through the motions, and does he have to pin Flair and make him look like a fool all the time?

Edge better be on his knees giving Angle the best oral he ever had,due to the fact that Angle has become the new Foley because he actually elevated Edge to the main event level like Foley did with Rock and HHH. Again they had a wonderful match  and both of them did an excellent job especially Angle everybody's true olympic hero.

Now I'm going to talk about RVD and why is he being depush even though he got an enormous pop at the ppv(and pretty much everywhere else). The guy could be the next Austin/Hogan/Rock, a true legend and icon, but Vince is dropping the ball with RVD. How can McGenius fuck up something so easy? The fans are in love with RVD even though he hasn't made a promo for the longest. As much as the fans idolize Hogan, they also want someone with awesome athetic abilities to be upthere main eventing for the belt. Just imagine RVD as a WWE champion and all those amazing and fresh new matches with someone like HHH, Austin, Angle and Y2J, people are getting tired of the middle fingers, and the punch and kick matches, the fans want an extreme champion. But losing to Eddie( who is a great wrestler but everybody knows that Vince won't ever make latino heat a main eventer) makes RVD look weak and he losses heat at the same time too. If it's true that Vince knows how to make superstars well it's time for him to prove it to all of us.

And until then Make Mine Marvel.

[Guest the pinjockey]

If he beat HHH, he would get heat for it? Taker beat Hogan, the most popular wrestler right now, and he didn't get much heat. But if Jericho won, he would of gotten the heat? Right...

 

It is a different situation though.  UT has been in a tweener role.  He is playing the heel but people still cheer and they also realize that while it is fun to pop for Hogan he is not someone that can be taken seriously.  Even "marks" understand he can barely hobble so it is not going to be a huge deal when he loses.  Jericho beating HHH in the match he mastered would be seen as a big deal.

[Guest easye46]

Yeehah.. another suckfest PPV by the WWe.

[Guest]

Yeehah.. another suckfest PPV by the WWe.

Correction, the WWE has not made a good PPV yet.  The WWF used to make good PPVs.

 

 

Fucking greedy, lying, Panda lovers.

[Guest the pinjockey]

Another thing I was curious about was if there was something wrong with Rikishi.  I know he usually sucks in the ring, but tonight he just seemed completely out of it.  He wasn't kicking out of pin attempts and he basically layed around like a beached whale.  I wasn't sure if he was just pissed about being in the pre-ME go get nachos match or if he was having a heart attack or something in there.

[Guest bcu1979]

Ahh, he did win some matches, especially the Undisputed title, and he still wasn't over.

 

If he beat HHH, he would get heat for it? Taker beat Hogan, the most popular wrestler right now, and he didn't get much heat. But if Jericho won, he would of gotten the heat? Right...

 

Yes, he has been playing HHH's personal bitch. I am not saying I like that, I am saying that he isn't over so he shouldn't win. But it is just my opinion.

And where would Triple H be if Vince decided back in the fall/winter of 1999 that they should just stop the Triple H push because he was not over. Triple H was given the belt, big wins, and 20 minute interviews every week. The fans sat on their hands while he talked. The fans sat on their hands during his matches. The fans sat on their hands when he would come out with his sledgehammer and beat the crap out of Rock or Mankind or Steve Austin.

 

But the WWF decided to make Triple H a star and eventually after being pushed long enough, he got over as a top star. The WWF knows how to make stars. And I don't think many people would dispute that Chris Jericho has all the talent needed to be a WWF main eventer. The WWF just chooses, for whatever reason, not to make him a credible main eventer. Jericho's not going to get a good heel reaction until the fans actually believe he might beat one of their heroes. Beating Triple H in the HITC match would have gone a long way into making Jericho a credible heel. But once again the same guys always come out on top.

[Guest TheDames7]

Not that anyone cares, but my recap of Judgment Day is on the site.

 

Dames

[Guest J*ingus]

"Man, the tag division is DEAD. Reminds me of PWC (If you don’t know what that is….it’s ok)."

 

Was that really necessary?  It's a bad enough situation over there without someone else pointing it out, doing Nelson's "HA-ha!" all the while.

[Guest cabbageboy]

In regards to them burying RVD, I wouldn't say that him losing to Eddie again hurts him all that bad.  Van Dam is one of those guys who keeps the heat no matter how ineptly he is booked.  Jericho is not.  There are a couple of directions RVD could go in right now:  1.  Another rematch with Eddie but with a stip (ladder or something), where he finally beats the holy hell out of Eddie and takes back the IC title.  2.  The two meet in the KOTR semis with no IC on the line and RVD finally beats Eddie to blow it off and win KOTR, but not the IC title.  While the stip match might be better in quality, the KOTR scenario is better in terms of long term vision.

[Guest notJames]

Yeehah.. another suckfest PPV by the WWe.

Correction, the WWE has not made a good PPV yet.  The WWF used to make good PPVs.

 

 

Fucking greedy, lying, Panda lovers.

Cute.  

 

I was also one of the few who got some enjoyment out of the PPV. I kept my expectations low except for the RVD/Guererro and Edge/Angle. Both of those matches were excellent (it may have helped not seeing last month's PPV)... lots of near falls, believable spots, etc. That one moment where RVD and Guererro were just standing and staring at each other, waiting for the other guy to make a move was a little awkward, like they weren't sure what to do next. I don't know if that was done on purpose, but other than that, the match was solid. I could see them moving RVD away from the IC hunt and go right to RAW's main event circle.

 

I was able to sit through the rest without any real difficulties, since I really didn't care how they went. Austin/Flair and that other guy were okay (especially the dueling Wooo-What chop chants). Jericho/HHH wasn't up to snuff with the other HITCs, but I didn't think they would anyway, and it was okay. And props to Jericho... I haven't seen anyone blade their arm since Magnum TA/Tuly Blanchard in their I Quit match.

 

I won't mention the other matches, since I wasn't wowed by them at all.

 

I will say one thing though... as much as the tag title change was asinine and pretty telegraphed, I like the idea of Rico possibly playing both sides. He's a fun character, and as long as he's given something interesting to do, I'll watch.

 

As for the  Booker T/Goldust skits, I kept saying to myself "Did RAW come on a day early?" Other than that, at least it keeps Booker's eventual face turn moving along, his nWo status notwithstanding. And if they can turn Goldust into a tweener of sorts with it, why not?

[Guest]

Not that anyone cares, but my recap of Judgment Day is on the site.

 

Dames

Very Good job.  It kept me entertained, likely more so than watching the actual event would have.

 

1…2…3!!!!!!!!!!!!! FUCK YES!!! GOD THANK YOU! You can have Tipsy! He’s yours!! I don’t like the mutt anyway!!! My first child will be named Undertaker! Undertaker Gonzalez!!! That’s right!

 

Well, this PPV redeemed itself quickly for me.

 

But wait…its not over. UT w/a chair! “This is for my motorcycle”. He bashes his throat in!!! DO IT AGAIN!!! YES!!!

 

And I’m spent…see you next time.

 

Heh.

[Guest]

I'm as pissed off as anyone that Jericho lost the HIAC. But, consider this... HHH had Jericho pinned in the ring with no ref after striking him with the sledgehammer, BUT even before that, Jericho had HHH pinned with no ref after a chairshot. He had HHH pinned first. I'm sure no one, including the WWF, will remember or mention that, but oh well...

[Guest evenflowDDT]

I read your recap Dames!

 

Anyway, here's my quick run through since I went to bed early and missed the chance to e-mail goodhelmet for the roundtable.

 

Regal vs. D'lo (Euro title) - Proving once again that HeAT is the best WWE show right now, this was definitely one of the most solid of the night, even if there was no build-up.  I honestly can't remember who won though...

 

RVD vs. Eddie Guererro (IC title) - Latino heat retains! This means the IC title has switched hands less time this year than the Undisputed title... heh.  Match was nothing decent, nothing real fancy.

 

Trish vs. Stacy - Jazz has been gone for what, one week now, and already the women's division is back to square one.  Two words: Molly Holly.  Why didn't they give her the belt, and have as lengthy a feud of Molly vs. Trish as they had Jazz vs. Trish.  I'm really not a Trish fan, but she's decent enough that I can deal with her, although I really hate Lawler more and more with each women's match.

 

D'von vs. Bubba (sorta) - I liked this segment, a lot.  Then again, there's a stereotypical corrupt black Southern Baptist against the stereotypical white wanna-be b-boy.  For someone who likes really really cheesy/bad booking, what's not to like? I wish they would've waited longer for the Dudley reunion though.

 

Hardyz vs. Brock/Heyman - Heyman didn't wrestle! I feel cheated... his facial expressions/reactions were priceless though.  During this match I saw two signs that made me feel good, "Raven + Flock = Ratings" (for the obvious reason) and "R.I.P. Davey Boy Smith" (though hastily put together given the suddenness of the announcement, good to see someone cares; even though I haven't seen many DBS matches they better do a tribute to him at RAW).  I liked the ending, with Heyman winning the match... "I did it! I did it!"

 

Booker T/Goldust segment - I love these two... comedic segments that are actually funny, even if the Booker Booty made an appearance.

 

SCSA vs. Big Show/Flair - Zzzzz.... nWo sucks, what? wh00! what? wh00! Way too many chops... it was cute the first time, but come on... chopping for the whole match?!

 

Hair vs. Hair - Not as good as last month.  Sorry, I need to be brief 'cuz class is almost out.

 

HHH vs. The Living Legend (HiaC) - Match of the night! No big bumps, thank God everyone is OK... Timmy Long is OK, right? What's with the resurrection of the Ayatollah of Rock-N-Rollah moniker though?

 

B&C vs. R&R - Eh? There's a tag division? If Rico can make B&C entertaining, he JUST might be able to make Rikishi watchable...

 

Hogan vs. Taker - Taker wins, Taker wins! Hogan sux0rs! Yes! Yes! Yes! I actually marked out! Match was terrible... not as bad as I thought though I'll admit

[Guest WWF4Life]

I thought this was a pretty good PPV. Not great, but it certainly had redeeming qualities for me personally. Apart from the clanger that was 'Taker-Hogan, everything else kept me pretty entertained.

 

- Hogan/'Taker. Well, it wasn't pretty, but at least they tried. The chokeslams were pretty ugly, but at least the title's off Hogan. Hopefully, they'll transfer the title to Austin tonight.

 

- HHH/Jericho. I'm surprised that anybody actually believed going in to this that Jericho was going to win. He hardly got a reaction from the crowd, the right guy went over.

 

- Van Dam still needs to learn how to throw a punch, and he's had ten years to learn. Maybe having him in there with Eddy is WWEs way of toning his high spot style down and actually learning to wrestle without flopping and adding a cartwheel to every move.

 

- Edge/Angle was excellent, and Edge is continually improving thanks to Angle. I'm not too sure where both of them go from here though.

 

Overrall, I'd give Judgment Day 7 out of 10.

[Guest Kinetic]

What's with the resurrection of the Ayatollah of Rock-N-Rollah moniker though?

No shit.  After Jericho made a point of saying that it wouldn't be the character of Y2J or "The Ayatollah of Rock and Rolla" in the cell, Jim Ross prefaced the match by saying "The Game versus The Ayatollah of Rock and Rolla, Y2J."  It's little things like that, along with big things like losing all of the time, that keep Jericho from looking credible.

[Guest]

am i the only person who thought hiac was really good? despite the fact that the ending sucked ass and the wrong person won, i still thought it was great.

 

on a similar note i really don't think there will be any new bona fide main eventers emerging as long as hhh is at the top, because he is that damn afraid of people with more talent.